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The U.S. court of Girkin ordered to pay $400 million to relatives of MH17 victims

Originally Posted by camlok:
That's hilarious! All America is and Americans are is propaganda.


Hello Mars, the USA is a great democratic country

"Governments don't want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking, That is against their interests. They want obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passively accept it." - George Carlin

It sounds like George knows a lot of you personally.
 
Originally Posted by camlok:
That's hilarious! All America is and Americans are is propaganda.




"Governments don't want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking, That is against their interests. They want obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passively accept it." - George Carlin

It sounds like George knows a lot of you personally.

have you heard before a term - "useful idiot"?
 
have you heard before a term - "useful idiot"?

Of course! US governments rely on hundreds of millions of them. They are called US citizens.

Exactly what George Carlin described. And Noam Chomsky describes the same. This is very well known.

"The general public are viewed as no more than ignorant and meddlesome outsiders, a bewildered herd. And it's the responsible men who have to make decisions and to protect society from the trampling and rage of the bewildered herd. Now since it's a democracy they - the herd, that is - are permitted occasionally to lend their weight to one or another member of the responsible class. That's called an election." - Noam Chomsky
 
That is nonsense, the evidence is clear and objectively crushingly obviously overwhelmingly on the side of it being shot down by a BUK, this is not a conspiracy thread but one where evidence matters and you just don't have a leg to stand on with your nonsensical conspiracy untruths.

A post totally devoid of evidence, even totally devoid of US government propaganda evidence. Remember, these are the guys that lied about Kuwait/Iraq 1990, Afghanistan 1979, Afghanistan 2001, OBL, Ukraine, Vietnam, Cuba, Korea, Iraq 2003, Arab hijackers, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Brazil, Mexico, Chile, Indonesia, East Timor, Panama, Colombia, Ecuador, Dominican Republic, Greece's/Italy's/... Operation Gladios, ... .
 
A post totally devoid of evidence, even totally devoid of US government propaganda evidence. Remember, these are the guys that lied about Kuwait/Iraq 1990, Afghanistan 1979, Afghanistan 2001, OBL, Ukraine, Vietnam, Cuba, Korea, Iraq 2003, Arab hijackers, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Brazil, Mexico, Chile, Indonesia, East Timor, Panama, Colombia, Ecuador, Dominican Republic, Greece's/Italy's/... Operation Gladios, ... .

What lies about Kuwait/Iraq 1990? Did not Iraq invade Kuwait?

What lies about Afghanistan 1979?

What lies about Afghanistan 2001?

What lies about OBL?

What lies about Ukraine?

What lies about Vietnam?

You keep babbling about "lies" but do little about detailing them.
 
Your post makes no sense. There is either EVIDENCE or there isn't.

Any EVIDENCE to support your claim?

Much evidence, but your dissonance forces you to ignore it or deny it.
 
Of course! US governments rely on hundreds of millions of them. They are called US citizens.

Exactly what George Carlin described. And Noam Chomsky describes the same. This is very well known.

"The general public are viewed as no more than ignorant and meddlesome outsiders, a bewildered herd. And it's the responsible men who have to make decisions and to protect society from the trampling and rage of the bewildered herd. Now since it's a democracy they - the herd, that is - are permitted occasionally to lend their weight to one or another member of the responsible class. That's called an election." - Noam Chomsky

Don't forget H.L. Mencken's thoughts on it: "The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable."
 
It was for the more perceptive amongst us....:mrgreen:

Litwin is notorious for his anti-Russian propaganda.

MH17 was shot down by Ukrainian aircraft, not by a BUK. The ulterior motives for that were way bigger than just sanctions against Russia IMO.

Your fear and hatred of the USDa is as well established as your total lack of knowledge about aviation and your total dishonesty regarding pretty much everything
 
No EVIDENCE presented...

Partisan for the course.

PRO TIP: If you are stating there is evidence it helps to actually present said evidence.

HD doesn't present evidence but he often claims he did see it once before it was scrubbed from the internet.
But what do you expect from a "flight instructor" who doesn't know what ground effect is
 
A post totally devoid of evidence, even totally devoid of US government propaganda evidence. Remember, these are the guys that lied about Kuwait/Iraq 1990, Afghanistan 1979, Afghanistan 2001, OBL, Ukraine, Vietnam, Cuba, Korea, Iraq 2003, Arab hijackers, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Brazil, Mexico, Chile, Indonesia, East Timor, Panama, Colombia, Ecuador, Dominican Republic, Greece's/Italy's/... Operation Gladios, ... .

I was talking to conspiracy theory nonsense poster number one, a person who loves to ignore evidence. And luckily I have all the evidence out there, I posted them ad nauseam in the conspiracy thread about this issue. But if you do not want to believe objective facts, that is your issue.
 
I was talking to conspiracy theory nonsense poster number one, a person who loves to ignore evidence. And luckily I have all the evidence out there, I posted them ad nauseam in the conspiracy thread about this issue. But if you do not want to believe objective facts, that is your issue.

+1

"Identifying Khmuryi, the Major General Linked to the Downing of MH17

This article was collaboratively researched and written by the Bellingcat MH17 Investigation Team.

On 18 July 2014, the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) published several tapped telephone conversations in relation to the July 17 downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 (MH17). Most of these conversations, recorded on the day of the downing, are between an officer identified as ‘Khmuryi’ (’Gloomy’ or ‘Grumpy’) and other separatist officers or soldiers of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic. The SBU identified ‘Khmuryi’ as ‘Sergey Nikolaevich Petrovsky’, a Russian GRU officer, but it took some time before this was covered in-depth by either Western or Russian-language media.

On 1 April 2015, the Dutch news organizations NRC, NOS and De Telegraaf wrote on Khmuryi after the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) published a video that included the tapped phone conversations, but audible censoring of the identities of the parties in the call. However, on 18 September 2014, Russian-language media site PolitRussia published an article and a video about ‘Khmuryi’, a DNR officer named Sergey Petrovsky, presenting a photograph and a video interview. This publication is based on a video from 27 June 2014 showing an interview with a member of the so-called Donbas People’s Militia with the call sign ‘Khmuryi’. However, that video does not provide the full name of the commander. As this article will show, the man interviewed who reportedly fought in Slavyansk and is from Moscow is almost certainly not the same “Khmuryi” from the intercepted telephone conversation. Another video, titled ‘Sergey Nikolaevich Petrovsky (call sign Khmuryi, Bad soldier)’ and uploaded 2 October 2014, shows a video message of a masked man, who according to the video title is Sergey Petrovsky. However, the video was previously uploaded on 12 June 2014, entitled ‘Spetsnaz of Strelkov,’ and this man seems to be a different person than the bearded man in the 27 June 2014 video, as his voice differs.

On 30 November 2014, an interview with General Sergey Nikolaevich Petrovsky was published on the Russian news site Politikus, making clear that he was then the head of the Main Intelligence Directorate (GRU) of the Donetsk People’s Republic and that his military career started in the Soviet army in 1984, when he participated in the war in Afghanistan. In the 90s, he took part in wars in North Ossetia and Chechnya, where he met Igor ‘Strelkov’ Girkin, who was the Minister of Defence of the Donetsk People’s Republic in 2014. In another interview, published 25 December 2014 on ultranationalist Russian news site Zavtra, he describes himself as Major General Sergey Petrovsky, born in 1962 in the Donetsk region. It is unclear if he achieved the rank of major general in the Russian Federation or the self-proclaimed separatist republic. He also described having over 30 years of service in the Soviet and Russian armies. An earlier interview with ‘Khmuryi’, then a colonel, was published in 2003 on the Russian news site Izvestia, as mentioned in a 2016 publication on a blog named Globalized. This blog, but also another blog on 28 November 2014, describes that a person who calls himself ‘Plokhoy Soldat’ (‘Bad Soldier’), with an avatar saying ‘Khmuryi’, frequently posted on a forum of the website Antikvariat, a website about history, military relics, and other topics, and where Igor ‘Strelkov’ Girkin also regularly posted messages about the war in Ukraine. In this forum, he wrote on 19 July 2014 that he is Colonel Sergey Nikolaevich Petrovsky, Deputy Minister of Defence of the Donetsk People’s Republic for guards reconnaissance.
 
It is because of Igor Girkin’s e-mail account that was hacked in May 2014 that the true identity of Sergey Petrovsky, which is not his real name, came to light. Several e-mails from Girkin’s e-mail account were published, among them an e-mail sent on 28 April 2014 from Sergey Dubinsky with e-mail address karahan1962@mail.ru, writing “Igor, this is Zubr [European bison], hi, do you still remember me??” This name and e-mail address lead to a social media profile that makes clear that Dubinsky was born on 9 August 1962 and lived in Donetsk, Ukraine. It’s noteworthy to mention that this year of birth (1962) differs from SBU’s claim he was born in 1964. The e-mail address also leads to a forum on a website about the 181st Motorized Infantry Regiment, that belonged to the 108th Motorized Infantry Division, which was involved in the Afghan war from 1979 to 1989. In the forum, after a list of names of soldiers and the years they served, a guest introduces himself on 18 July 2010 as ‘Karakhan’ and Sergey Dubinsky, serving from 1985 to 1987, currently living in Donetsk, Ukraine. In 2011 he registered himself as user ‘Karakhan’, Sergey Dubinsky, born on 9 August 1962, and uploaded a photograph of himself in a military uniform, showing the rank of Colonel. One of his fellow veterans soon after uploaded several photographs of him as well, and in 2016 another fellow veteran uploaded a larger version of the photograph of Sergey Dubinsky in uniform and described him as ‘Petrovsky, Dvorkovskiy, Khmuryi, Zubr [European bison], Bison and our Karakhan’ and as ‘Khmuryi in DNR (Donetsk People’s Republic)’ in now-deleted posts on the forum. A video in the forum and a YouTube video show the same photograph of Sergey Dubinsky in a military uniform."
dubinsky_okhlobystin.jpg

more is here https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-...-major-general-linked-to-the-downing-of-mh17/

 
This page has about all the information humanly possible about the investigation and the evidence about MH17

https://www.om.nl/onderwerpen/mh17-crash/

or on this page:

https://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/onderzoek/2049/investigation-crash-mh17-17-july-2014

Kinda like the way the Warren Commission truth "had all the evidence", eh? Or the 911 Commission had all the evidence? :lamo You are so easily led Peter.

Both the 911 Commission, the Warren Commission, and whatever Kangaroo Court Commission was set up regarding MH17, they were all "set up to fail." They were all set up to protect the guilty parties and fool the gullible.
 
Kinda like the way the Warren Commission truth "had all the evidence", eh? Or the 911 Commission had all the evidence? :lamo You are so easily led Peter.

Both the 911 Commission, the Warren Commission, and whatever Kangaroo Court Commission was set up regarding MH17, they were all "set up to fail." They were all set up to protect the guilty parties and fool the gullible.

Aah. more unsubstantiated nonsense and conspiracy theories, sorry but this is not the conspiracy theory thread where you can claim nonsense, this is the real world where facts and reality matters and the reality is that the investigation overwhelmingly proves the case of the 2 sets of Dutch investigators. Pure and simple, also, this is not the 911 commission or anything else.

And I am easily led :lamo :lamo ludicrous to hear that from someone who believe crackpot conspiracy theories and completely ignores facts and evidence and loves made up fake evidence and realities.
 
Kinda like the way the Warren Commission truth "had all the evidence", eh? Or the 911 Commission had all the evidence? :lamo You are so easily led Peter.

Both the 911 Commission, the Warren Commission, and whatever Kangaroo Court Commission was set up regarding MH17, they were all "set up to fail." They were all set up to protect the guilty parties and fool the gullible.

Intentional ignorance of the final result of the 9/11 Commission Report and Cherry Pickering a statement early in to the investigation. .

Go back to the CT forum and take Camlok with you.
 
Kinda like the way the Warren Commission truth "had all the evidence", eh? Or the 911 Commission had all the evidence? :lamo You are so easily led Peter.

Both the 911 Commission, the Warren Commission, and whatever Kangaroo Court Commission was set up regarding MH17, they were all "set up to fail." They were all set up to protect the guilty parties and fool the gullible.

what are you talking about we know the names of Muscovite officers and solders who operated this BUK ...
 
great news Putler is one step closer to The Hague :peace , my question is simple, who will pay finally , Girkin or Putler Vova?


strelkov-st-george.jpg



"A group of relatives of victims of the crash Malaysian “Boeing” under the Donetsk have won in a us court case against former defense Minister of the breakaway Donetsk national Republic (DND) Igor strelkov, known under the pseudonym Shooters, giving them the right to compensation in the hundreds of millions of dollars. .... "

https://the-newspapers.com/2018/01/...-pay-400-million-to-relatives-of-mh17-victims

I hope the "international court" thows the book at them, right after they get us:


" As the American and Iranian ships skirmished, Iran Air Flight 655 took off from nearby Bandar Abbas International Airport, bound for Dubai. The airport was used by both civilian and military aircraft. The Vincennes mistook the lumbering Airbus A300 civilian airliner for a much smaller and faster F-14 fighter jet, perhaps in the heat of battle or perhaps because the flight allegedly did not identify itself. It fired two surface-to-air missiles, killing all 290 passengers and crew members on board."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...f-iran-air-flight-655/?utm_term=.0b11ccc6a0da
 
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I hope the "international court" thows the book at them, right after they get us:




https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...f-iran-air-flight-655/?utm_term=.0b11ccc6a0da

The whole issue with the lower one is that this is 2 countries fighting/having hostilities where a plane got involved and accidentally got shot down. The US pilots/US government did not plan on shooting down a civilian plane. Also 30 years ago this year. It may have been a tragedy but one where can have a bit of understanding for it and how it happened.

MH17 is not 2 countries squaring off against one another, this was one commercial airliner being shot down by a Russian Buk by Russian backed Ukrainian rebels. And also, this happened just a few years ago, what do we also have to go back to the bombing of Dresden or the Bay of Pigs incident? The ICC is not there to revive ancient cases, they have plenty to do with cases this century.
 
Intentional ignorance of the final result of the 9/11 Commission Report and Cherry Pickering a statement early in to the investigation. .

Go back to the CT forum and take Camlok with you.

It's funny how painful the truth can be, eh Maus? Whether in CT or some other thread, the truth makes some apoplectic.

Who is Cherry Pickering BTW? ;)
 
It's funny how painful the truth can be, eh Maus? Whether in CT or some other thread, the truth makes some apoplectic.

Who is Cherry Pickering BTW? ;)

As always it is you
 
It's funny how painful the truth can be, eh Maus? Whether in CT or some other thread, the truth makes some apoplectic.

Who is Cherry Pickering BTW? ;)

You haven't presented any truth in regards to 9/11 so how could it be painful?

Except to you. You have been informed time and again what was said about the report at the conclusion.... By the very man you quote out of context.

And focusing on spell check errors is about the only thing you get right.

Have you ever considered reading the various reports instead of merely regurgitating what others have said about them?
 
You haven't presented any truth in regards to 9/11 so how could it be painful?

Except to you. You have been informed time and again what was said about the report at the conclusion.... By the very man you quote out of context.

And focusing on spell check errors is about the only thing you get right.

Have you ever considered reading the various reports instead of merely regurgitating what others have said about them?

It's been presented here before Maus, but you and Peter were in denial then, and you're in denial now.

Cannon fire all through the cockpit section, one of those rounds making a beautiful scribe across the top surface of the outboard left wind, testimony about climbing jets told by peasants on the ground and quickly taken down by BBC, the tweets of the Spanish controller who quickly vanished, no explanation from Kiev as to why altitude and routing were changed once the flight entered Ukrainian airspace.

All those things, but you're in denial, and that's not a river in Egypt. :lol:
 
It's been presented here before Maus, but you and Peter were in denial then, and you're in denial now.

Cannon fire all through the cockpit section, one of those rounds making a beautiful scribe across the top surface of the outboard left wind, testimony about climbing jets told by peasants on the ground and quickly taken down by BBC, the tweets of the Spanish controller who quickly vanished, no explanation from Kiev as to why altitude and routing were changed once the flight entered Ukrainian airspace.

All those things, but you're in denial, and that's not a river in Egypt. :lol:

You floated the idea a SU-25 did the deed.

Cannon fire that did not do what 30MM combat loads do.

And you never explained how a low ceiling ( 23,000 feet) SU-25 intercepted a 33,000 foot MH-17 and hit it from above.

BTW - It was cleared to FL330 and then cleared to FL350 but remained at FL330 to maintain separation from other traffic...
 
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