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7-year old removed from school in cuffs, held as danger to society.

OldFatGuy said:
Neither. Surgeons die young, and they are not known for their financial acumen. I could never live on a pension. I have a much better investment record than any pension fund. My dividend income is well into seven figures annually. Only 1 of a dozen or so revenue streams. Residual income from net leased commercial real property rents is far more significant.
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Point made. Being a teacher doesn’t pay well. And their retirement plan isn’t the best.

Cops, teachers, firemen, nurses, soldiers...all paid NOT for the job they do. Not for the importance of their function or what they are willing to do. They are paid on what their education levels are. And the truly good ones? Will never be paid enough.


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blackjack50 said:
Point made. Being a teacher doesn’t pay well. And their retirement plan isn’t the best.

Cops, teachers, firemen, nurses, soldiers...all paid NOT for the job they do. Not for the importance of their function or what they are willing to do. They are paid on what their education levels are. And the truly good ones? Will never be paid enough.
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For 2017-18, starting salaries for teachers in NYC will range from $54,000 (bachelor's degree, no prior teaching experience) to $81,694 (master's degree, eight years teaching experience, plus additional coursework). New teachers with a master's degree but no prior teaching experience earned $60,704.

Occupation Annual mean wage in Arizona Annual mean wage in U.S.
Special Education Teachers, Preschool, Kindergarten and Elementary School $42,540 $56,690
Special Education Teachers, Middle School $45,600 $59,540
Special Education Teachers, Secondary School $45,400 $60,410

Not so shabby.
 
blackjack50 said:
Yes. I do have a clue. Normal people don’t go out and kill people every day. In fact...it is so rare that it is no even a 100th of a percent of an occurrence. Most people don’t understand violence and they will avoid it. They don’t understand when someone resorts to it and they don’t understand when someone uses it in self defense.

Violence isn’t logical. It is primal. And for the most part? People don’t get involved in violence and so their only experience is tv and they try to put their logic into instead of their primal instincts.


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Violence CAN be logical.
 
OldFatGuy said:
For 2017-18, starting salaries for teachers in NYC will range from $54,000 (bachelor's degree, no prior teaching experience) to $81,694 (master's degree, eight years teaching experience, plus additional coursework). New teachers with a master's degree but no prior teaching experience earned $60,704.

Occupation Annual mean wage in ArizonaAnnual mean wage in U.S.
Special Education Teachers, Preschool, Kindergarten and Elementary School$42,540$56,690
Special Education Teachers, Middle School $45,600$59,540
Special Education Teachers, Secondary School $45,400$60,410

Not so shabby.
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Are you going to take that paycheck to work in the inner city and deal with kids in gangs who are out of control? And let’s not forget you may have student loans to worry about.


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Thoreau72 said:
Violence CAN be logical.
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It can be. But the instinct is primal. The act is not. And I would argue that the logical use of violence is 99% of the time would be in response to violence. And that changes the equation.


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blackjack50 said:
It can be. But the instinct is primal. The act is not. And I would argue that the logical use of violence is 99% of the time would be in response to violence. And that changes the equation.


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I think that at the lowest level, it is encouraged by others, in very subtle ways.
 
Mr Person said:
Excerpts:

According to an incident report from Miami-Dade Schools Police Department, the 7-year-old became violent Thursday after he was scolded for playing with his food. The report stated that the boy “attacked the teacher by repeatedly punching her on her back,” and once he was restrained, he continued to struggle using “his fists and legs,” bringing them both to the ground.“While on the ground, the juvenile continued to fight the teacher, grabbing her hair and pulling it towards him,” according to the report. After the boy calmed down, he was taken to the principal’s office — and then taken into custody. The report added that the teacher had said she wanted to press charges. . . This time, the parents said they went down to the school and agreed to a 10-day suspension but were told that he had to be taken to a hospital for a psychiatric evaluation. . . Florida’s Baker Act allows individuals to be held for an involuntary psychiatric examination when they are considered a danger to themselves or others.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...chool-his-parents-say/?utm_term=.f3d46c936741

Statutory sections in play (I'm too lazy to go digging up the exact language, etc.):

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine



So, a few things struck me as odd about this:

1. Maybe the kid has issues beyond poor discipline, but held for an involuntary psychiatric commitment? The officer apparently said she was going to do that or arrest him - a 7 year old kid. I mean, really?

2. But anyway, how does a seven year old take down a grown adult? There is a video in the article. He's an ordinary sized seven year old. Perhaps this is inaccurate and the teacher actually brought the kid to the ground (not the other way around, as it seems to suggest).




Anyway, Florida.
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Doesnt say kid took them down it says kids actions lead them both to the ground.
 
Mr Person said:
Excerpts:

According to an incident report from Miami-Dade Schools Police Department, the 7-year-old became violent Thursday after he was scolded for playing with his food. The report stated that the boy “attacked the teacher by repeatedly punching her on her back,” and once he was restrained, he continued to struggle using “his fists and legs,” bringing them both to the ground.“While on the ground, the juvenile continued to fight the teacher, grabbing her hair and pulling it towards him,” according to the report. After the boy calmed down, he was taken to the principal’s office — and then taken into custody. The report added that the teacher had said she wanted to press charges. . . This time, the parents said they went down to the school and agreed to a 10-day suspension but were told that he had to be taken to a hospital for a psychiatric evaluation. . . Florida’s Baker Act allows individuals to be held for an involuntary psychiatric examination when they are considered a danger to themselves or others.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...chool-his-parents-say/?utm_term=.f3d46c936741

Statutory sections in play (I'm too lazy to go digging up the exact language, etc.):

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine



So, a few things struck me as odd about this:

1. Maybe the kid has issues beyond poor discipline, but held for an involuntary psychiatric commitment? The officer apparently said she was going to do that or arrest him - a 7 year old kid. I mean, really?

2. But anyway, how does a seven year old take down a grown adult? There is a video in the article. He's an ordinary sized seven year old. Perhaps this is inaccurate and the teacher actually brought the kid to the ground (not the other way around, as it seems to suggest).




Anyway, Florida.
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Dont know about the law in Florida, but in many places teachers can lose their jobs by using force against a child. Even in self-defense
 
blackjack50 said:
Are you going to take that paycheck to work in the inner city and deal with kids in gangs who are out of control? And let’s not forget you may have student loans to worry about.
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My older daughter did that for ten years, but no student loans. No biggie. Her students loved her, the toughest, roughest would escort her back and forth to her car as she arrived and left for the day. Now she's an RN, working with her brother, a former Army doctor who served in both Iraq an Afghanistan, at the trauma center at Cornell Columbia Presbyterian on 68th and York in Manhattan. She finished her nursing school at night at Columbia while she was teaching. Earned her a great deal of respect from her students. The inner cities are nowhere as hopeless as you assume. There are far more problems with spoiled out of control upper middle class white kids in American schools.

Student loans don't reflect on the quality of job performance, and for teachers there are forgiveness programs for up to 50% of their student loans on a prorated basis for each year they teach at a public school.
 
sangha said:
Dont know about the law in Florida, but in many places teachers can lose their jobs by using force against a child. Even in self-defense
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We almost had that here last year. Two girls fighting. Female teacher steps in between. Aggressive girl gets teacher in head lock. Male teacher steps in between separating them. Male gets kicked in balls by same girl. Girls mother calls cops on male teacher. Mother is also on our Board.

We are still waiting for rules of engagement and pretty much all male teachers told principal they will simply watch fight unless it gets really dangerous. We might get in trouble for that too though, police said.
 
Mr Person said:
Excerpts:

According to an incident report from Miami-Dade Schools Police Department, the 7-year-old became violent Thursday after he was scolded for playing with his food. The report stated that the boy “attacked the teacher by repeatedly punching her on her back,” and once he was restrained, he continued to struggle using “his fists and legs,” bringing them both to the ground.“While on the ground, the juvenile continued to fight the teacher, grabbing her hair and pulling it towards him,” according to the report. After the boy calmed down, he was taken to the principal’s office — and then taken into custody. The report added that the teacher had said she wanted to press charges. . . This time, the parents said they went down to the school and agreed to a 10-day suspension but were told that he had to be taken to a hospital for a psychiatric evaluation. . . Florida’s Baker Act allows individuals to be held for an involuntary psychiatric examination when they are considered a danger to themselves or others.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...chool-his-parents-say/?utm_term=.f3d46c936741

Statutory sections in play (I'm too lazy to go digging up the exact language, etc.):

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine



So, a few things struck me as odd about this:

1. Maybe the kid has issues beyond poor discipline, but held for an involuntary psychiatric commitment? The officer apparently said she was going to do that or arrest him - a 7 year old kid. I mean, really?

2. But anyway, how does a seven year old take down a grown adult? There is a video in the article. He's an ordinary sized seven year old. Perhaps this is inaccurate and the teacher actually brought the kid to the ground (not the other way around, as it seems to suggest).




Anyway, Florida.
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The teacher wants to press charges? Against who? Is it possible for a 7-year-old to commit a crime in Florida? What a bizarre concept!
 
Grand Mal said:
The teacher wants to press charges? Against who? Is it possible for a 7-year-old to commit a crime in Florida? What a bizarre concept!
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Against the parents and city...
 
blackjack50 said:
Kid sounds like a real menace. I’m inclined to believe the teacher. As for her not being tough? She’s a teacher. Not a cage fighter or a cop. I believe it. I would say it sounds like he needs his “ass beat,” but honestly it really does sound like he is a disturbed kid who needs special schooling. And a good hard look at his home life to see what mommy and daddy are teaching him is acceptable. And they certainly won’t be in the dark on his behavior.

Better now than him cutting off hooker’s heads and or some other crazy ****.



Miami Florida. Be specific please. Anything ****ty that happens in Florida is most likely some yankee asshole or a transplant dip****...or from Miami. You have to live here to understand Would say anything south of Orlando is a ****hole though really.
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I question how much learning goes on in that environment. Also I wonder how the other children reacted to him.
 
Grand Mal said:
Press charges means charge with a crime, right? What crime did the parents and city commit?
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Not sure but money gained is the goal... right?
 
JBG said:
I question how much learning goes on in that environment. Also I wonder how the other children reacted to him.
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Yep. Hard to say. I mean most schools have bad kids. It is a question of environment and how many of those other kids see that in their homes on a daily basis?
 
blackjack50 said:
I’m from Florida born and raised. Lived here my entire life. And just to give you an idea...you couldn’t triple my current income to get me to live in south Florida. All the crazy **** you hear about is down there. East coast is bad too. But it is pockets there. If you want a nice quiet place to retire...north Florida is nice. It still gets cold. Nicer people. Less people too. I recommend Saint George island or appilachicola If you like fishing for red fish, trout, or Spanish. Or go west to Pensacola and find any small town in that area.
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Didn't it hit single digits at the beginning of the year? Or snow? Or both? I forget which.
 
Mr Person said:
I didn't say the teacher was lying. In fact, I suggested that perhaps the article didn't describe it accurately, since it sounds much more likely that the teacher just forced the kid to the ground to hold him still, rather than the kid taking down the teacher.



I still find it very odd that an ordinary skinny little 7 year old can take an adult down. Is the lady still teaching at 100 or something?
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If she isn't allowed to resist I find nothing odd. A lot of kids that age are surprisingly strong.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Hey, crappy parents are crappy parents.
By the age of seven a kid is expected to KNOW the do's and don'ts, and parents are supposed to be the ones teaching it to them.

When I see kids with those problems, it usually points to parents who never resolved THEIR OWN little temper tantrums when they were kids. Sometimes it's something else but it's never good, and it almost always points to parents who failed in some way.
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Or maybe it's genetic.

Checkerboard Strangler said:
My kids weren't perfect, but they respect teachers, law enforcement and generally, any adult who is clearly trying to be a good person.
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One of the most important lessons a child needs to learn, before going out in the world, is how to interact with authority. The death of Michael Brown in Fergeson, Missouri is Exhibit "A" on what happens in its absence.
 
JBG said:
Or maybe it's genetic.

One of the most important lessons a child needs to learn, before going out in the world, is how to interact with authority. The death of Michael Brown in Fergeson, Missouri is Exhibit "A" on what happens in its absence.
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That genetics argument would be a great ego boost but my kids are only mine through legal means. Their biological father is the ultimate textbook definition of an "angry super-sized Aryan white guy with authority issues."
He's also a largely absentee father as well. Both kids think of me as their father but only because I love them so much. I did not have the honor of making them, only raising them when their father walked out on the marriage.

Amusing story: My daughter had JUST gotten her driver's license in Texas, but she was a bit of a hot head when she got a ticket for excessive speed, and the officer was pretty hard on her. We'd been trying to get her to see the logic in treating a speeding ticket as a responsibility to be fulfilled and learned from, but you know how teen angst is sometimes a powerful factor.

Anyway, she was riding with me down the main drag in Mansfield and I was doing about 60 in a 45 zone. A Mansfield PD went by in the other direction, I saw him slow and prepare to make a U-turn in my rear view mirror and I immediately pulled over, put my wallet and keys on the dash and my hands on the wheel.
Officer Johnston strolled up to the car, leaned in and said, "Good morning, where's the fire?"

"You got me, officer, I was clearly going too fast."
"Is that why you pulled over?"
"Yup, I saw you, looked down at my speedo and knew you had me."
There was a bit of a pause, and then he said, "Let's see that license and insurance."
He took it, studied who I was, went back to his cruiser for a couple of minutes, then returned and said, "Well, I appreciate your cooperative attitude, I'm going to let you go with a warning, watch that lead foot, okay? Y'all have a nice morning."

My daughter's jaw was open like an oven door.
"Omigod, how did you do that?"

If you treat a cop respectfully, and like a human being, more often than not they're going to reciprocate.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
If you treat a cop respectfully, and like a human being, more often than not they're going to reciprocate.
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That happened the first time I got pulled for running a stop sign in Mamaroneck in 1974, and got a warning for speeding in New Rochelle for doing 45 in a 30. Not so lucky with that officer the second time, doing 40 in a 30 on the same road.

Once I fought and beat a ticket for 62 in a 50 on the merits.
 
One of the reasons I enjoy being around my daughter so much is watching her reaction to moments like this. It's priceless.
I laughed hard...she did too, but she was totally in shock.
 
cuban smokes said:
I have lived in three states; LA for 26 years, TX for 15 years, MN for 16 years

once I get rid of my mortgage I plan to move to Florida ............. I am 57 years old & I wanna be near the beach for my last few years .............

Can FL really be that bad? Maybe, once i get there, just don't act like a crazy person?
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That's what we did. Wasn't sure if I'd like it, but it's worked out all right so far. I look right out on the inter-coastal and can be on the beach in 20 minutes (3 miles).

Just another weird purple state with a gerrymandered government that isn't exactly "representative". I'm sure glad we didn't go to NC. The beaches there are too far away from everything else, and the politics are even worse.
 
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