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What is a "victimless crime"?

A built (installed?) to code electrical sub-panel with associated branch circuit wiring not signed off by a master electrician. Many areas have laws on the books requiring that certain work be done only by licensed "insiders" (e.g. master electrician) and inspectors are prohibited from passing equally good (safe?) work absent that prerequisite.

This is a great example of union BS lol
 
This is a great example of union BS lol

I was tempted to add many user fees and "sin" taxes but the crime is usually only in avoiding (evading?) those taxes. For example, since wild game management is good for the environment (thus all of society benefits fom it) then why are game hunters, which aid in that process, charged a fee rather than rewarded for their help (if they abibe by season and posession limits)?
 
I have to call BS on that argument. The driver setting out high/drunk has no idea how the journey will turn out.

Sober or drunk, nobody can predict the future, no man knows how the journey will turn out.
 
I was tempted to add many user fees and "sin" taxes but the crime is usually only in avoiding (evading?) those taxes. For example, since wild game management is good for the environment (thus all of society benefits fom it) then why are game hunters, which aid in that process, charged a fee rather than rewarded for their help (if they abibe by season and posession limits)?

Because those fees pay for the preservation/maintenance of those lands and law enforcement of those laws.
 
What is a "victimless crime"?

Give examples of what is, and maybe even what is not that you have seen some others say is.

What criteria do you use for your definition?

From your point-of-view, not somebody else's definition.

A victimless crime is one in which the only person who could be realistically harmed in any way by the action is the person who commits it. In a free country, there should be no such thing. Sadly, that is not the case.
 
Because those fees pay for the preservation/maintenance of those lands and law enforcement of those laws.

The point is: Why not use general tax revenue instead of charging those that actually participate in helping to do that?
 
The point is: Why not use general tax revenue instead of charging those that actually participate in helping to do that?

Because they also benefit the most. And produce lead-filled bullets and other things that need remediation (and kill animals). (For example.) And most places also charge fees for access, period. So everyone does pay.
 
A built (installed?) to code electrical sub-panel with associated branch circuit wiring not signed off by a master electrician. Many areas have laws on the books requiring that certain work be done only by licensed "insiders" (e.g. master electrician) and inspectors are prohibited from passing equally good (safe?) work absent that prerequisite.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Good work is good work. Work to code is work to code. Period. This is nothing more than protectionism.
 
I wholeheartedly agree with this. Good work is good work. Work to code is work to code. Period. This is nothing more than protectionism.

Yep, the government loves to issue licenses, permits and certifications for fees, of course, and many like to keep these hoops in place so that they can increase profits by simply limiting competition. Some areas are worse than others.

I recently tried to find a place to buy aluminum siding and the related trim parts and discovered that no retail outlets exist for it but many licensed aluminum siding installation contractors do exist in the area and only they may purchase these materials using special (wholesale) tax IDs. I am unsure about any government requirements for this apparent "cartel" situation but it seems odd that nobody (in the greater Austin, TX area) sells these materials retail.
 
What is a "victimless crime"?

Give examples of what is, and maybe even what is not that you have seen some others say is.

What criteria do you use for your definition?

From your point-of-view, not somebody else's definition.

Any action that does not directly infringe on the rights of another person. Simple.
 
A victimless crime is one in which the only person who could be realistically harmed in any way by the action is the person who commits it. In a free country, there should be no such thing. Sadly, that is not the case.

We are not in a free country, not by a long shot.
 
I don't know. My initial impulse would be to say smoking cannabis. I don't think it should be a crime, but it is not always accurate to say that it is victimless.

If I look back on my life I have been a victim of excessive cannabis use. Every time I have failed at something or not bothered trying it is usually linked to an excessive consumption of marijuana.

It's also the case that I have affected others by my past use of it. So to claim it is a totally victimless activity is in my view dishonest. It is a crime where I live, but I believe it ought not be. The people who do fall victim to excessive cannabis use ought to be helped off the drug rather than treated as a criminal.

I don't think there are victimless crimes, but there are certainly "crimes" that ought to be treated under a different system because their victims are either oneself or emotionally affected friends and family who aren't going to be helped if the person is thrown in jail.

Sure some will be able to smoke a joint once in a blue moon and experience little to no negativity from it, perhaps that might be considered victimless, but with something like cannabis you have to consider those worst affected by it. I know plenty of victims of it, thankfully I no longer count myself among them.

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What is a "victimless crime"?

Give examples of what is, and maybe even what is not that you have seen some others say is.

What criteria do you use for your definition?

From your point-of-view, not somebody else's definition.


A crime where all persons involved are consenting adults who enter into the situation willingly, supposedly accepting the inherent risks.

Prostitution is the classical example, as is personal drug possession/use.

Another, rarely referenced, would be dueling.


The fundamental problem with the term is it is narrowly focused; many so called "victimless crimes" actually do have victims, just not among the willing participants. The housewife whose whoremongering hubby brings home some nasty STD for one example; the family and children of drug addicts who are harmed by the addicts's actions and behaviors for another. Some also cite the societal costs of such things; as in their impact on social services, family structure, healthcare costs, and general order.
 
I suppose suicide, because the one who commits it is also the victim. Yes it has repercussions that affect others but they aren't the victims

Children without a parent are victimless? :roll:
 
A crime where all persons involved are consenting adults who enter into the situation willingly, supposedly accepting the inherent risks.

Prostitution is the classical example, as is personal drug possession/use.

Another, rarely referenced, would be dueling.


The fundamental problem with the term is it is narrowly focused; many so called "victimless crimes" actually do have victims, just not among the willing participants. The housewife whose whoremongering hubby brings home some nasty STD for one example; the family and children of drug addicts who are harmed by the addicts's actions and behaviors for another. Some also cite the societal costs of such things; as in their impact on social services, family structure, healthcare costs, and general order.
Perhaps those things are all true, but that's where personal responsibility comes in.

People are not victimized by the drug use itself, they are victimized by other illegal/unethical behavior by the drug addicts, most of which already falls under the category of being illegal.
 
Perhaps those things are all true, but that's where personal responsibility comes in.

People are not victimized by the drug use itself, they are victimized by other illegal/unethical behavior by the drug addicts, most of which already falls under the category of being illegal.


I agree to a point... but only to a point. Many of the issues that arise from "victimless crimes" are not in themselves illegal tmk, but harm others anyway.

The prostitution issue with hubby bringing home an STD... well most states have decriminalized adultery, and while some will prosecute for knowingly passing STDs none prosecute for unknowingly, that I know of.

Drug abuse... yes, lots of common druggie issues like theft are already illegal. Being a crappy parent isn't, quite, unless it rises to a level DSS gets involved (which often just makes things worse). Being a ****ty husband isn't. I've seen a lot of this first hand, and I hate it. I've seen good people get hooked and go downhill in astonishing ways.

Even so, I favor legalization for other reasons, reluctantly.
 
I agree to a point... but only to a point. Many of the issues that arise from "victimless crimes" are not in themselves illegal tmk, but harm others anyway.

The prostitution issue with hubby bringing home an STD... well most states have decriminalized adultery, and while some will prosecute for knowingly passing STDs none prosecute for unknowingly, that I know of.

Drug abuse... yes, lots of common druggie issues like theft are already illegal. Being a crappy parent isn't, quite, unless it rises to a level DSS gets involved (which often just makes things worse). Being a ****ty husband isn't. I've seen a lot of this first hand, and I hate it. I've seen good people get hooked and go downhill in astonishing ways.

Even so, I favor legalization for other reasons, reluctantly.

Take a trip with me to San Francisco. It will completely change your views about the supposed benefits of drug legalization. I had bought it for many years too, but going there after drug legalization I can't defend it any longer. The whole city (no exaggeration) smells of it. There are homeless everywhere, and they've now developed a syringe problem, where people will, after shooting up heroin, leave their syringes on the streets. There are just too many negative societal effects, and it simply does not work. Unlike with alcohol, there is no such thing as responsible marijuana use.
 
Yeah, that's a tough one for me, maybe 'cause I'm a big fan of beer and always rationalize my past bad behavior, lol. But these days victimless DUI too easily can involve others. Unless you're lucky enough to still live out in wide-open spaces.

I think "victimless DUI" happens often. DUI accidents are still one of the major causes of accidents and fatalities (I think distracted driving is catching up though), but still many instances of DUI do not involve any other individual.

It's not to say that it should be legal in general, as a drunk driver is impacting overall probabilities. But unless you do personal or property damage to another, you haven't created a "victim" persay.
 
Yes it was.

When there are kids involved, it is not victimless.
Key word is 'when'.

If people are in their private homes, or are using drugs where property owners condone their use, it's none of anybodies business.

There are already laws against child neglect, endangerment, and abuse. Enforce those laws with more severe consequences, and leave the responsible adults the **** alone.
 
I agree to a point... but only to a point. Many of the issues that arise from "victimless crimes" are not in themselves illegal tmk, but harm others anyway.

The prostitution issue with hubby bringing home an STD... well most states have decriminalized adultery, and while some will prosecute for knowingly passing STDs none prosecute for unknowingly, that I know of.

Drug abuse... yes, lots of common druggie issues like theft are already illegal. Being a crappy parent isn't, quite, unless it rises to a level DSS gets involved (which often just makes things worse). Being a ****ty husband isn't. I've seen a lot of this first hand, and I hate it. I've seen good people get hooked and go downhill in astonishing ways.

Even so, I favor legalization for other reasons, reluctantly.
I think a lot of it just comes down to making good choices, and being more careful of whom you involve yourself with. It's not a legal solution, but I'm afraid it's the only one compatible with a free society such as this one.

People can be verbally abuse and cruel with their words, but it is not up to the law to decide those matters. One has to resolve those situations themselves, by making the decision to walk away from those people when the warning signs appear, and not look back.

That's just an example.
 
I think a lot of it just comes down to making good choices, and being more careful of whom you involve yourself with. It's not a legal solution, but I'm afraid it's the only one compatible with a free society such as this one.

People can be verbally abuse and cruel with their words, but it is not up to the law to decide those matters. One has to resolve those situations themselves, by making the decision to walk away from those people when the warning signs appear, and not look back.

That's just an example.


Mm. Easy to say in the abstract. When we're talking real people...

I knew a guy who married a paramedic. She was a great person, really.... so much so, I was envious that my buddy "caught her first". THEN... she was injured and got hooked on the opioids, and in the course of a year she changed so much, it was hard to believe. She went from angel-of-mercy to daughter-of-satan; nothing mattered but more opioids.

There was no foreseeing that; there was no poor judgement on his part. As he said, "that isn't the same woman I married."

My buddy tried to help her, get her help, but she was too far gone and he had to bail. She almost killed him. Divorce. There were children involved, and that makes it ten worlds of difference than if it was just two adults.

All people I cared about... painful to watch it happen, painful to be helpless to do anything.
 
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