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School Dayz - Education or Stabbing?

J

JBG

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New Rochelle: Police, concern surround school after stabbing (link)

Though one of the parties to this altercation is dead and the other won't speak to protect her legal rights, the publicly known facts are simple:

On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 during school hours a large group of high school students, mostly age 16, was on a strip of North Avenue (a nearby retail-dominated street) during school hours;
A dispute of some importance broke out between two of them, 16-year-old Z'inah Brown and Valeree Schwab, two females;
Ms. Brown was accompanied by a group of male friends;
Ms. Brown stabbed Ms. Schwab to death; and
Ms. Brown was arrested yesterday, January11, 2018

The episode raises a whole host of questions, but I 'm going to confine myself to a few:

What were the students doing out of school during school hours?
Even if not scheduled for classes why were they not in the library or study halls doing homework or catching up?
Are education budgets being wisely spent on children who don't want to learn; and
Who is supervising and raising these children?

There were no guns involved, so the proliferation of guns cannot be used as a tangent to deflect from serious and profound problems.
 
JBG said:
New Rochelle: Police, concern surround school after stabbing (link)

Though one of the parties to this altercation is dead and the other won't speak to protect her legal rights, the publicly known facts are simple:

On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 during school hours a large group of high school students, mostly age 16, was on a strip of North Avenue (a nearby retail-dominated street) during school hours;
A dispute of some importance broke out between two of them, 16-year-old Z'inah Brown and Valeree Schwab, two females;
Ms. Brown was accompanied by a group of male friends;
Ms. Brown stabbed Ms. Schwab to death; and
Ms. Brown was arrested yesterday, January11, 2018

The episode raises a whole host of questions, but I 'm going to confine myself to a few:

What were the students doing out of school during school hours?
Even if not scheduled for classes why were they not in the library or study halls doing homework or catching up?
Are education budgets being wisely spent on children who don't want to learn; and
Who is supervising and raising these children?

There were no guns involved, so the proliferation of guns cannot be used as a tangent to deflect from serious and profound problems.
Click to expand...

When you have a policy of giving over a significant part of your economy to the nastiest, especially when the entrance costs of going into that economy are nill, you will create the society we see here.

That this is drugs which lend themselves to more loss of inhibition just makes it quicker.

1, Legalise drugs.

2, Fund schools equally regardless of how rich the local housing is.
 
JBG said:
New Rochelle: Police, concern surround school after stabbing (link)

Though one of the parties to this altercation is dead and the other won't speak to protect her legal rights, the publicly known facts are simple:

On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 during school hours a large group of high school students, mostly age 16, was on a strip of North Avenue (a nearby retail-dominated street) during school hours;
A dispute of some importance broke out between two of them, 16-year-old Z'inah Brown and Valeree Schwab, two females;
Ms. Brown was accompanied by a group of male friends;
Ms. Brown stabbed Ms. Schwab to death; and
Ms. Brown was arrested yesterday, January11, 2018

The episode raises a whole host of questions, but I 'm going to confine myself to a few:

What were the students doing out of school during school hours?
Even if not scheduled for classes why were they not in the library or study halls doing homework or catching up?
Are education budgets being wisely spent on children who don't want to learn; and
Who is supervising and raising these children?

There were no guns involved, so the proliferation of guns cannot be used as a tangent to deflect from serious and profound problems.
Click to expand...

1. A lot of kids skip school. This is not some new phenomenon.
2. :lol:
3. No, the budgets are not wisely spent.
4. No one.

There are already truancy laws on the books and kids still get in trouble for skipping classes but until they have parents who actually care, nothing will change. When no one cares, they do what they want and it leads to stupid things like this happening.
 
I usually went off school grounds for lunch during my junior and senior years in high school. A kid has gotta eat and it eased congestion in the cafeteria. Also, at that age we should be easing teenagers into adult responsibilities.

I don’t think we can blame this horrible crime on that practice.
 
americanwoman said:
1. A lot of kids skip school. This is not some new phenomenon.
2. :lol:
3. No, the budgets are not wisely spent.
4. No one.

There are already truancy laws on the books and kids still get in trouble for skipping classes but until they have parents who actually care, nothing will change. When no one cares, they do what they want and it leads to stupid things like this happening.
Click to expand...
I tried to send you a PM but got a message your box was full. Did you used to post on the Canadian board, Mapleleafweb?
 
Skeptic Bob said:
I usually went off school grounds for lunch during my junior and senior years in high school. A kid has gotta eat and it eased congestion in the cafeteria. Also, at that age we should be easing teenagers into adult responsibilities.

I don’t think we can blame this horrible crime on that practice.
Click to expand...
That leaves these questions:

  1. Even if not scheduled for classes why were they not in the library or study halls doing homework or catching up?
  2. Are education budgets being wisely spent on children who don't want to learn; and
  3. Who is supervising and raising these children?
 
To paraphrase Mr. Justice Brandeis in the last century, for better or for worse the government sets an example for behavior of the citizens.

The government demonstrates regularly that violence is a useful tool in so many ways. Maybe violence does beget violence. Maybe the video games so many kids participate in also reinforce violence as an ordinary action?

Hate your next door neighbor, but don't forget to say grace.
 
JBG said:
New Rochelle: Police, concern surround school after stabbing (link)

Though one of the parties to this altercation is dead and the other won't speak to protect her legal rights, the publicly known facts are simple:

On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 during school hours a large group of high school students, mostly age 16, was on a strip of North Avenue (a nearby retail-dominated street) during school hours;
A dispute of some importance broke out between two of them, 16-year-old Z'inah Brown and Valeree Schwab, two females;
Ms. Brown was accompanied by a group of male friends;
Ms. Brown stabbed Ms. Schwab to death; and
Ms. Brown was arrested yesterday, January11, 2018

The episode raises a whole host of questions, but I 'm going to confine myself to a few:

What were the students doing out of school during school hours?
Even if not scheduled for classes why were they not in the library or study halls doing homework or catching up?
Are education budgets being wisely spent on children who don't want to learn; and
Who is supervising and raising these children?

There were no guns involved, so the proliferation of guns cannot be used as a tangent to deflect from serious and profound problems.
Click to expand...

Ever tried enforcing rules on kids whose parents don’t care?

My mother had a student recently whose mother was literally a prostitute. And not just for money, but was a known addict to hard drugs (and smoked weed around her child as well). Guess which kid was a nightmare student with emotional and mental issues?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Thoreau72 said:
To paraphrase Mr. Justice Brandeis in the last century, for better or for worse the government sets an example for behavior of the citizens.

The government demonstrates regularly that violence is a useful tool in so many ways. Maybe violence does beget violence. Maybe the video games so many kids participate in also reinforce violence as an ordinary action?

Hate your next door neighbor, but don't forget to say grace.
Click to expand...

The government doesn’t set examples for the citizens and the children. This is on the parents and the kid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
JBG said:
That leaves these questions:

  1. Even if not scheduled for classes why were they not in the library or study halls doing homework or catching up?
  2. Are education budgets being wisely spent on children who don't want to learn; and
  3. Who is supervising and raising these children?
Click to expand...

If it was lunch break then that would answer question number 1.

As for #2 we could always do a better job.

And the answer to #3 should be their parents. Unfortunately not all kids have good parents.
 
JBG said:
Skeptic Bob said:
I usually went off school grounds for lunch during my junior and senior years in high school. A kid has gotta eat and it eased congestion in the cafeteria. Also, at that age we should be easing teenagers into adult responsibilities.

I don’t think we can blame this horrible crime on that practice.
Click to expand...

That leaves these questions:

  1. Even if not scheduled for classes why were they not in the library or study halls doing homework or catching up?
  2. Are education budgets being wisely spent on children who don't want to learn; and
  3. Who is supervising and raising these children?
Click to expand...
Among certain groups there is absolutely no premium on learning or education. There is no supervision on doing homework. The parents do not monitor grades, attendance or disciplinary issues. Children are not called to task if the school is having a problem with the pupil. The parents do not seek psychological help for their children.
JBG said:
blackjack50 said:
Ever tried enforcing rules on kids whose parents don’t care?

My mother had a student recently whose mother was literally a prostitute. And not just for money, but was a known addict to hard drugs (and smoked weed around her child as well). Guess which kid was a nightmare student with emotional and mental issues?
Click to expand...
Who is supervising and raising these children?
Click to expand...
In many cases the children are not raised in a sense that any one would understand.
 
Last edited:
blackjack50 said:
The government doesn’t set examples for the citizens and the children. This is on the parents and the kid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Louis Brandeis disagreed with your theory, dissenting in Olmstead in the last century. I'm going with his view and not yours. His view is likely too subtle for you to grasp.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Louis Brandeis disagreed with your theory, dissenting in Olmstead in the last century. I'm going with his view and not yours. His view is likely too subtle for you to grasp.
Click to expand...

The government is so minimal on impact to our daily lives as to be irrelevant. Sure...Donald trump may show up a little more than usual. But I would say the phones in our faces and social media and so on...has a way bigger impact. But more important than that? The parent and child relationship. Ultimately...that is the biggest deciding factor on how a kid will behave. A crappy parent will not have good results with the kid. And a good parent? Likely will have good results.

I’ve taken my fair share of educational psychology and education classes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
blackjack50 said:
The government is so minimal on impact to our daily lives as to be irrelevant. Sure...Donald trump may show up a little more than usual. But I would say the phones in our faces and social media and so on...has a way bigger impact. But more important than that? The parent and child relationship. Ultimately...that is the biggest deciding factor on how a kid will behave. A crappy parent will not have good results with the kid. And a good parent? Likely will have good results.

I’ve taken my fair share of educational psychology and education classes.
Click to expand...
If a person's peers have good family structures it ameliorates even, say, a series of divorces. When almost everyone is from more or less random families that's another story.
 
JBG said:
What were the students doing out of school during school hours?
Even if not scheduled for classes why were they not in the library or study halls doing homework or catching up?.
Click to expand...

:lol:

Your post screams "NAIVE!!"
 
JBG said:
That leaves these questio
[*]Even if not scheduled for classes why were they not in the library or study halls doing homework or catching up??
Click to expand...

You think kids that are ditching school and murdering another student go to the library to study? What in the ****?? :lol:
 
Skeptic Bob said:
If it was lunch break then that would answer question number 1.

As for #2 we could always do a better job.

And the answer to #3 should be their parents. Unfortunately not all kids have good parents.
Click to expand...

#1 poor students and violent kids go to class maybe 50% of the time... if that.
 
JBG said:
Exactly my point. Should we fund this sort of "education"? Or set up and better fund schools for actual students?
Click to expand...

We dont need a new system. Just enforce the rules already in place and perhaps create a "trade" branch at 14 years or so.
 
Another stabbing yesterday in New Rochelle High School (link). The fatal stabbing of Valaree Schwab last week (link). And now this. Does anyone come to school to learn?
 
JBG said:
Another stabbing yesterday in New Rochelle High School (link). The fatal stabbing of Valaree Schwab last week (link). And now this. Does anyone come to school to learn?
Click to expand...


This is ugly but not really a new thing.

In my day (late 70s/early 80s) there were five or six knifings involving teenagers that required medical treatment, a couple of them seriously damaged. Some others with more minor injuries. Now back then people rarely *stabbed* (thrusting into the body), knowing that might kill and take things to a whole other level... they *cut*, with the intention of inflicting a painful wound that would take time to heal and leave an ugly scar. Though I knew one fellow who carried a very short VERY sharp blade for doing a stab-in-slash-out sort of move, really nasty wound but not necessarily fatal.

In my father's youth (late 30s/early40s) there were similar sort of things, and some carried straight razors. If you've never fiddled with an old-style straight razor they are SCARY sharp and will part flesh like water. The thin blade tends to shatter on bone though.


I think it is true though that there are certain categories of young folks these days with no real upbringing, who show an appalling lack of respect for life at a young age.
 
Goshin said:
This is ugly but not really a new thing.

In my day (late 70s/early 80s) there were five or six knifings involving teenagers that required medical treatment, a couple of them seriously damaged. Some others with more minor injuries. Now back then people rarely *stabbed* (thrusting into the body), knowing that might kill and take things to a whole other level... they *cut*, with the intention of inflicting a painful wound that would take time to heal and leave an ugly scar. Though I knew one fellow who carried a very short VERY sharp blade for doing a stab-in-slash-out sort of move, really nasty wound but not necessarily fatal.

In my father's youth (late 30s/early40s) there were similar sort of things, and some carried straight razors. If you've never fiddled with an old-style straight razor they are SCARY sharp and will part flesh like water. The thin blade tends to shatter on bone though.


I think it is true though that there are certain categories of young folks these days with no real upbringing, who show an appalling lack of respect for life at a young age.
Click to expand...
Your own post says it's a new thing. And these often do end in death. As in the fatal stabbing of Valaree Schwab last week (link). If I remember I'll post more on those later.

Off to synagogue.
 
Likely W.H. Auden was quite right--those to whom evil is done do evil in return.

If everything the youngster sees delivers the message that violence is a legitimate tool, likely some number of them will behave accordingly.
 
JBG said:
Your own post says it's a new thing. And these often do end in death. As in the fatal stabbing of Valaree Schwab last week (link). If I remember I'll post more on those later.

Off to synagogue.
Click to expand...



Yes and no. When and where I grew up there was an enormous amount of violence. At Jr High I recall walking to class, passing three fights in the hallway and not bothering to stop and watch. None of them involved friends of mine so pff, off to class I go.

I'd been on the wrong end of a couple knives and a broken bottle before I was 15; almost got shot before I was 16. Lost a buddy about that time; killed with a shotgun blast at close range by another teenager.

By the time I was 18 I couldn't have guessed how many fights I'd been in, and would have had to think hard to count how many times I'd seen someone pull a weapon of some kind.


Now it is true that even the roughest teenagers rarely *killed on purpose* back then. Personally I think for two reasons: fear of the electric chair and fear of God, as religious sentiments were more common then even among those who didn't go to church. Someone will surely disagree but I was there and I knew these rough fellows and that's my opinion.


The new generation has more killers, yes... but statistically speaking they're still relatively rare.
 
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