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Guilty without a trial?

Bodi

Bodi

Just waiting for my set...
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Why is the Las Vegas shooter automatically guilty just because he is dead? No Due Process? If he had lived he would have been prosecuted and the DA would have to have proven guilt like the unibomber or Timmy McVeigh.

The LV shooter seems pretty open and shut but it is not always and still there is no trial.

Why automatically guilty?
 
Bodhisattva said:
Why is the Las Vegas shooter automatically guilty just because he is dead? No Due Process? If he had lived he would have been prosecuted and the DA would have to have proven guilt like the unibomber or Timmy McVeigh.

The LV shooter seems pretty open and shut but it is not always and still there is no trial.

Why automatically guilty?
Click to expand...

Oswald
 
Bodhisattva said:
Why is the Las Vegas shooter automatically guilty just because he is dead? No Due Process? If he had lived he would have been prosecuted and the DA would have to have proven guilt like the unibomber or Timmy McVeigh.

The LV shooter seems pretty open and shut but it is not always and still there is no trial.

Why automatically guilty?
Click to expand...

If he ever comes back to life he will still get a trial
 
Well, if I ever need to frame someone for a murder I want to commit, I'll be sure to make it look like the patsy committed suicide. Or better yet, gets shot by a cop. :)
 
Nothing built by man is perfect, including systems of laws and adjudication. There will always be exceptions.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Why is the Las Vegas shooter automatically guilty just because he is dead? No Due Process? If he had lived he would have been prosecuted and the DA would have to have proven guilt like the unibomber or Timmy McVeigh.

The LV shooter seems pretty open and shut but it is not always and still there is no trial.

Why automatically guilty?
Click to expand...

I have never really thought about it that way but you have a point. I don’t think there is much that can be done about it since you can’t participate in your defense if you are dead. But should we still treat someone as innocent until proven guilty if they are dead and never actually proven guilty?
 
Bodhisattva said:
Why is the Las Vegas shooter automatically guilty just because he is dead? No Due Process? If he had lived he would have been prosecuted and the DA would have to have proven guilt like the unibomber or Timmy McVeigh.

The LV shooter seems pretty open and shut but it is not always and still there is no trial.

Why automatically guilty?
Click to expand...

Well those that always demand a jury trial and conviction as proof of crimes committed should be able to clarify this. Perhaps they will have a change of mind??

Note- If a person is convicted, and they are appealing the conviction, if they happen to die before the appeal has been ruled on, they are/can be declared innocent.
Aaron Hernandez murder conviction expected to be vacated by 'quirky' rule - CNN

(CNN)Aaron Hernandez's murder conviction is expected to be dismissed posthumously because of a legal rule called "abatement."

That would mean, legally speaking, Aaron Hernandez died an innocent man.
Hernandez hanged himself in his prison cell and was found dead early Wednesday morning, the Massachusetts Department of Correction said. Hernandez had been serving a sentence of life in prison without parole after being convicted of the June 2013 murder of Odin Lloyd.
But a court will vacate that conviction because Hernandez's appeal was pending, said Rosanna Cavallaro, a law professor at Suffolk University who has written about abatement.
Click to expand...
 
Crovax said:
If he ever comes back to life he will still get a trial
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His reputation is damaged being found guilty without a trial....
 
Guilty as you're discussing it is a legal term. He was never 'found guilty' legally. He was never charged, obviously.

Supposedly the cops and investigators investigated all the evidence and found no indications that there was any other suspect to hold responsible (altho apparently they havent released all their findings yet).
 
Bodhisattva said:
Why is the Las Vegas shooter automatically guilty just because he is dead? No Due Process? If he had lived he would have been prosecuted and the DA would have to have proven guilt like the unibomber or Timmy McVeigh.

The LV shooter seems pretty open and shut but it is not always and still there is no trial.

Why automatically guilty?
Click to expand...

If you want to consider him innocent, by all means. There wasn't a trial. I think he was guilty as all get out and being dead saved the state the expense of a trial. Then again, I still think OJ Simpson was guilty even though in a trial they found him not guilty. People judge on how they perceive the evidence or even with nothing more than a gut reaction. There's no doubt in my mind the LV shooter is guilty, that's why I call him the LV shooter.
 
Perotista said:
If you want to consider him innocent, by all means. There wasn't a trial. I think he was guilty as all get out and being dead saved the state the expense of a trial. Then again, I still think OJ Simpson was guilty even though in a trial they found him not guilty. People judge on how they perceive the evidence or even with nothing more than a gut reaction. There's no doubt in my mind the LV shooter is guilty, that's why I call him the LV shooter.
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But if he lived he would not be guilty until he had a trial...
 
Bodhisattva said:
Why is the Las Vegas shooter automatically guilty just because he is dead? No Due Process? If he had lived he would have been prosecuted and the DA would have to have proven guilt like the unibomber or Timmy McVeigh.

The LV shooter seems pretty open and shut but it is not always and still there is no trial.

Why automatically guilty?
Click to expand...

He is guilty because we have been told by the media that he is guilty. Today's trials are on TV, in the media.

And the same media did not report the forensic acoustic analysis performed by Mike Adams which showed 2 rifles firing from 2 different locations. We can't get too close to the truth you know....
 
Thoreau72 said:
He is guilty because we have been told by the media that he is guilty. Today's trials are on TV, in the media.

And the same media did not report the forensic acoustic analysis performed by Mike Adams which showed 2 rifles firing from 2 different locations. We can't get too close to the truth you know....
Click to expand...

Mike Adams...:lamo
 
Bodhisattva said:
But if he lived he would not be guilty until he had a trial...
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He's not guilty now, either. He's just the guy everyone assumes is guilty.
 
calamity said:
He's not guilty now, either. He's just the guy everyone assumes is guilty.
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Yeah, everyone assumes he is guilty, and everyone assumes he was the only one firing a rifle that evening. We are so thoroughly conditioned. The story demands that more than 1000 rounds were fired, but the pictures show only a tiny fraction of that much brass. We are so perceptive....:lamo rather like Scott Pelley at SB.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Yeah, everyone assumes he is guilty, and everyone assumes he was the only one firing a rifle that evening. We are so thoroughly conditioned. The story demands that more than 1000 rounds were fired, but the pictures show only a tiny fraction of that much brass. We are so perceptive....:lamo rather like Scott Pelley at SB.
Click to expand...

We assume his is guilty because no compelling evidence has presented by anyone credible countering that assumption.
 
Bodhisattva said:
But if he lived he would not be guilty until he had a trial...
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In the United States dying causes you to lose most of your rights, like (medical) privacy and due process. The major one that remains is the having your final wishes honored.

I suppose they could try him in absentia but there hardly seems much point to it.
 
Thoreau72 said:
He is guilty because we have been told by the media that he is guilty. Today's trials are on TV, in the media.

And the same media did not report the forensic acoustic analysis performed by Mike Adams which showed 2 rifles firing from 2 different locations. We can't get too close to the truth you know....
Click to expand...

I like the first sentence ..


Not sure who M. Adams is...
 
Thoreau72 said:
Yeah, everyone assumes he is guilty, and everyone assumes he was the only one firing a rifle that evening. We are so thoroughly conditioned. The story demands that more than 1000 rounds were fired, but the pictures show only a tiny fraction of that much brass. We are so perceptive....:lamo rather like Scott Pelley at SB.
Click to expand...

Second shooter?
 
Bodhisattva said:
Why is the Las Vegas shooter automatically guilty just because he is dead? No Due Process? If he had lived he would have been prosecuted and the DA would have to have proven guilt like the unibomber or Timmy McVeigh.

The LV shooter seems pretty open and shut but it is not always and still there is no trial.

Why automatically guilty?[/QU susOTE]

You make a somewhat valid point. Just because your prime suspect is dead doesn't mean he is guilty or the only guilty party.

In both Oswald and the Vegas shooting I have a strong suspicion there is more to the story. In both they didn't act alone, and in Oswald maybe not at all. Yet we'll never know.
Click to expand...
 
Bodhisattva said:
Why is the Las Vegas shooter automatically guilty just because he is dead? No Due Process? If he had lived he would have been prosecuted and the DA would have to have proven guilt like the unibomber or Timmy McVeigh.

The LV shooter seems pretty open and shut but it is not always and still there is no trial.

Why automatically guilty?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you mean.

He's guilty in the eyes of public opinion because of ****ing course he is. He had all the weaponry set up - didn't he even film himself doing parts of this or did I dream that up? - the angles made sense, he shot himself when the cops came, etc.

But he's not "guilty" in the sense of being convicted. I mean, he's dead. We don't indict dead people then enter a conviction in the docket or something. (In fact, if someone dies while their appeal is pending, the conviction is wiped from the record). It would be a pretty absurd symbolic point to put the effort into making.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Yeah, everyone assumes he is guilty, and everyone assumes he was the only one firing a rifle that evening. We are so thoroughly conditioned. The story demands that more than 1000 rounds were fired, but the pictures show only a tiny fraction of that much brass. We are so perceptive....:lamo rather like Scott Pelley at SB.
Click to expand...

Oh, is Alex Jones calling it another "false flag"? The government was behind it because reasons?

:doh



Sometimes, bad people do bad things and it really is that simple, if impossible to fully understand.
 
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