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cop acquitted of murder captured on video

Mr Person said:
So did the broken, intoxicated puddle of a man just trying to obey conflicting rapid-fire barked orders.

I would seriously urge people to reconsider. It's easy to watch a video and say "yeah, this and that should have happened. FAIL!"

I haven't been in that kind of situation. I've been in some seriously high-stress situations and I acted appropriately, but nothing that bad. And I think a person should be very careful estimating how they'd deal with it.

Hell, people who've already been through it a lot (wartime soldiers) can freeze up, etc.
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I get it. I did hear the cop ask if they were intoxicatd, for what that’s worth. They both answered no. But I understand. Apparently an innocent bystander died because he couldn’t follow instructions. That’s awful. Thing is, though, it’s not murder. The cop was just as pumped as the guy on the floor.

I always think back to a story a friend told. He and his girlfriend had just left a tavern. Were making out in the car. Unbeknownst to them, the tavern and patrons had been robbed at gunpoint just minutes after they left. A cop came up to each front window and ordered the two to freeze and put both hands on the dashboard. The cops were screaming. It scared them to death. But they did it. The cop kept telling him, pleading with him, not to move because he would shoot him. Wally told me the cop’s hand was shaking, and everybody at that car was scared to death. No cop wants to kill a person. They just want to get home alive.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Yes...and no. The policeman is right in that the guy reached in behind to his pants...and in that kind of situation it certainly could have looked as if he was reaching for a firearm. I could not in good conscience have convicted that policeman.

That being said, police today are trained to shoot first and investigate later - they're trained to be on a hair trigger. This is IMO a direct institutional reaction to the MUCH higher rate of police killings we had during the 1970's and 1980's...but the problem now is that because they're on a hair trigger, ready to shoot at the least sign of possible danger, a lot of innocent (or at least completely unarmed) civilians are getting shot and killed. IMO it's not the individual policeman's fault, but in the paranoia that is being instilled in them during their training. YES, that paranoia keeps some alive...but the problem is that that same paranoia is costing the lives of unarmed and non-threatening civilian lives...and it's making the civilian community distrust the police. If we want the civilians to trust the police, then the civilians have to see and believe that the police really are there to protect and serve.
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In the context of the few minutes before that?

Looks more like he just pitched forward from a combination of adrenaline and booze. This stuff really shouldn't be a death sentence.






I find it terrifying that they have that power and get acquitted with ease. Want more compensation for the job? Better Pension? Fine. I'll pay more in taxes.

But with great power comes great responsibility. And it seems that they generally have less responsibility.
 
Mr Person said:
How reasonable is it, really, to assume that a begging/weeping man crawling forward, after minutes in abject fear, is actually secretly plotting to shoot the cop? Worse, to do it from the worst position possible?





Good lord....

/sigh
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Well I suppose you should volunteer your psychic abilities to the nearest police department.
 
Thumper39 said:
Incorrect. You can not use lethal force until you positively identify a threat. IE. Guy is not following directions. You can either escalate or deescalste the situation. If you choose to escalate by drawing your firearm you have created space and time to react. That gives you the opertunity to make sure that you've positively identified a threat. (Him actually drawing a weapon instead of pulling up his pants). Firing because you "thought" he was reaching for a weapon is what weak minded cowards do. Not what professionals do. If I behaved the way many of these cops do when I was in Afghan, Iraq or Africa then I would still be in jail. But I was a professional that actually understood the oath I took when I enlisted.

Before we continue this discussion to the point of stupidity let me mention that in addition to actually having been in situations similar to what this cop was in, I've twice been recognised as an expert in the use of force by military courts and was once an instructor at the SOTG school for less lethal and lethal combat.
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So, the officer should have wait until guns are drawn and bullets are flying...

Got it.

These "weak minded cowards" who serve as police officers will be removed from the gene pool...

Then what?
 
VanceMack said:
Why would you willfully make yourself look stupid like that? Seriously?
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its actually a good point, there are cases where a private citizen is justified in killing a cop The Randy Weaver case was proof of that. If for example cops break down your door in the middle of the night because they had the wrong address for a warrant and you see one pointing a gun at you and you had a reasonable belief the cop was going to shoot you, you can shoot. It is rare but it has happened
 
Bodhisattva said:
I thought the fires were over. Good luck... those Santa Annas can whip up fires quick. A couple guys from our brigade volunteered and flew over for the fires a couple months ago.
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From a spark at noon to fully involved 1,000 fire hours later... Burning embers fly two plus miles forward of the flame front. And the flame front can travel in excess of 15 MPH....

2007 fires had jumps of 3-4 miles.
 
Fledermaus said:
So, the officer should have wait until guns are drawn and bullets are flying...

Got it.

These "weak minded cowards" who serve as police officers will be removed from the gene pool...

Then what?
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the unarmed man who was killed was put in a no win predicament by the cops. the guy who shot and the guy giving the orders both need to be relieved of their jobs-and the cop who shot, liable for massive civil damages
 
TurtleDude said:
the unarmed man who was killed was put in a no win predicament by the cops. the guy who shot and the guy giving the orders both need to be relieved of their jobs-and the cop who shot, liable for massive civil damages
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It was the murder charge I cant agree with.

And the insistence that he is a murderer even after acquitted.
 
Fledermaus said:
It was the murder charge I cant agree with.

And the insistence that he is a murderer even after acquitted.
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reckless homicide was the proper charge
 
LowDown said:
There are some places in the country where the cops ought to just pull out and let the people there fend for themselves because they are reflexive in their hatred and condemnation of cops. They don't deserve police protection.
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The family of Justine Damond are likely wishing that the Police didn't turn up that night. Calling the Police for help was the wrong decision for her.

Unarmed, in her pyjamas, shot dead by a Police Officer outside of her home after she had called 911 for help. Five months on, there has been no criminal apprehension and her family still have not been informed of what actually happened that night.
 
VanceMack said:
No. You are the one making the idiotic correlation that a cop is equivalent to a suspect. You know...its OK to disagree about something. Its OK to have reasoned discussions about it. But when you make the kind of stupid comments like the one you made you might as well stand up and shout "look at me...I'm a clown! Ignore everything I say!"
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You are the one saying that being in a hallway is suspicious activity because a nervous cop is also there on duty and barking out various commands. I get it that someone else called them and reported *gasp* seeing a gun. What we do not know (from the video) is why the suspects were ever considered armed and dangerous for simply allowing their pellet guns to be seen by others.

Brailsford, who was fired two months after the incident for violations of department policy, testified that he would have handled the situation in the same way if given the chance.
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Failure to comply with an official game of Simon says in a hallway should not be deemed just cause for execution. One can only guess what would have happened to any other occupant of the room that the fumbling with the key card and door latch may have startled into suddenly opening the room's door.
 
Mr Person said:
In the context of the few minutes before that?

Looks more like he just pitched forward from a combination of adrenaline and booze. This stuff really shouldn't be a death sentence.






I find it terrifying that they have that power and get acquitted with ease. Want more compensation for the job? Better Pension? Fine. I'll pay more in taxes.

But with great power comes great responsibility. And it seems that they generally have less responsibility.
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If you really think that was murder, then I hope you are ready to protect yourself

When a cop gets convicted because he shot a suspect reaching into their waist for the unknown, then you will have even less cops applying than you have now

You guys who think that too many cops are just trigger happy....go look at your community stats

See how many cops your force is short....and it is getting harder and harder to recruit

And the guys who want to be cops, we really don’t want them...

Maybe the call from dispatch doesn’t help.....man with a gun....and so they get to a scene already with adrenaline flowing

I have been in combat, and scared out of my mind....I am glad I never had to do it again

These guys put on a uniform volunteering to protect and serve....on this one, it is an easy call for me...not guilty

I can’t see how anyone could see anything different
 
Serenity said:
The family of Justine Damond are likely wishing that the Police didn't turn up that night. Calling the Police for help was the wrong decision for her.

Unarmed, in her pyjamas, shot dead by a Police Officer outside of her home after she had called 911 for help. Five months on, there has been no criminal apprehension and her family still have not been informed of what actually happened that night.
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My rule of thumb is to never interact with police unless it is literally life or death for me or my daughter.
 
What is it with people in power positions killing children's parents with no jusrification nowadays? It will bite you in the ass later on in life.

I would think Americans would have the decency but hey you live in a dog eat dog culture where I can guess you can make excuses to kill off the competition in the job market.
 
Fledermaus said:
It was the murder charge I cant agree with.

And the insistence that he is a murderer even after acquitted.
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well legally you are correct but lots of people called OJ a murderer and I really cannot call them liars
 
TurtleDude said:
its actually a good point, there are cases where a private citizen is justified in killing a cop The Randy Weaver case was proof of that. If for example cops break down your door in the middle of the night because they had the wrong address for a warrant and you see one pointing a gun at you and you had a reasonable belief the cop was going to shoot you, you can shoot. It is rare but it has happened
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Its not a good point. Its stupid beyond words. Its the dumbass equivalence of "duh...if you guys can haz unlimited firearms duz that means nuklear weaponz too? "

Its stupid. Beyond words.
 
VanceMack said:
Its not a good point. Its stupid beyond words. Its the dumbass equivalence of "duh...if you guys can haz unlimited firearms duz that means nuklear weaponz too? "

Its stupid. Beyond words.
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are you familiar with Kevin Harris and the long dead DUSM Sam Degan?
 
gdgyva said:
If you really think that was murder, then I hope you are ready to protect yourself

When a cop gets convicted because he shot a suspect reaching into their waist for the unknown, then you will have even less cops applying than you have now

You guys who think that too many cops are just trigger happy....go look at your community stats

See how many cops your force is short....and it is getting harder and harder to recruit

And the guys who want to be cops, we really don’t want them...

Maybe the call from dispatch doesn’t help.....man with a gun....and so they get to a scene already with adrenaline flowing

I have been in combat, and scared out of my mind....I am glad I never had to do it again

These guys put on a uniform volunteering to protect and serve....on this one, it is an easy call for me...not guilty

I can’t see how anyone could see anything different
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I can and I had to shoot someone who was far more threatening than this unarmed man who had 5 cops aiming guns at him
 
Bodhisattva said:
Courts and judges are fallible. I have presented and won one case and one argument in front of the Court. That said... the court has an opinion too... they were wrong. Perhaps the prosecuter bungled a minor but crucial point. Maybe there was a technicality legally or evidence was tainted. Aquitted does not mean innocent. It means not legally guilty.
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We recognize as part of system, that not only are courts fallible, they are subject to review by higher jurisdictions for corruption, error and violation of other laws.

In your not so humble opinion the court was wrong. :) Prove it. Make a case demonstrating how the court was wrong. Not maybe's, perhaps, or other opinions, but with factual evidence. And apparently the video won't do, because the court has already ruled against it and you don't know why. Pursuant to our judicial system's criminal parameters, innocent until proven guilty, an acquittal is an affirmation of innocence.

So present a case for appeal of the decision and judgment, or one that makes a case in the Federal jurisdiction based upon federal applicable law(s) that would lead to a conviction of some sort against the shooter. Those are your real options. Use them, fulfill them, or you have nothing other than whining positions to offer.

Are you an attorney, and if so or not, what kind of court did you present that argument to? Was it a criminal court, usually a state supreme court, or was it a small claims case, landlord tenant, or any other court geared toward protecting the consumer, and doing so often with an unfair hand? Were you pro ce in a matrimonial/family court? Do tell. I do have a sense of humor.
 
Bodhisattva said:
No. That was the pretty clear point that i was making...
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Really? I took it as a critique of my post, and not a critique of the ad hominem insults which led to my statement. Moreover, speaking a truth about someone is not an insult, it is statement of fact. A word you bandy about often and with ease. Obviously insults from those who agree with your position are not insults. Only those from those not in agreement with you.
 
Mr Person said:
How reasonable is it, really, to assume that a begging/weeping man crawling forward, after minutes in abject fear, is actually secretly plotting to shoot the cop? Worse, to do it from the worst position possible?





Good lord....

/sigh
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Very reasonable. Because the suspect could easily be putting on an act to emotionally deflect actions by the officer, placing the officer in an emotionally disarmed position, off his guard so the subject would have an edge to act.

I wear two sheathed 3" throwing knives, under my shirt on my right arm. They are within the laws of the City of New York which allows the carry of blades less than 3 1/2 inches. Within ten feet of target, I can put one of those knives in a target's throat before that target can raise a pistol in hand but on a lowered arm to a shooting position. I assure you, I am far from the only individual with such skills.

I personally saw the results of a man who used a steel tipped dart, he had used 20 minutes before the incident I am describing, in a friendly competition at a bar he had just left. Loser bought the next round of beers. A man with a pistol attempted to rob him, carjack his car, he pulled that dart out of his pocket, put it deep enough in the robber's throat to sever the robbers spinal cord from 3' away. He was dead without knowing so. Collapsed on the spot. The dart was visibly sticking out the back of his neck with pieces of bone and cartilage along with flesh and blood, nerve tissue as he lay on his side on the ground. How many people are proficient with darts do you suppose? That dart thrower had never intentionally physically hurt another human being during his life and never considered his darts a weapon. He was emotionally devastated by his own action, immediately regretting taking another human life. He preserved his life from a predator, who proved out to be violent career criminal. He did the right thing.

Unfortunately, no victim cannot second guess before the act, the arms and skills held and used by the individual who caused his or her death, not even a police officer.
 
Serenity said:
The family of Justine Damond are likely wishing that the Police didn't turn up that night. Calling the Police for help was the wrong decision for her.

Unarmed, in her pyjamas, shot dead by a Police Officer outside of her home after she had called 911 for help. Five months on, there has been no criminal apprehension and her family still have not been informed of what actually happened that night.
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Mpls. police bracing for backlash over officer in Justine Damond's death - StarTribune.com

Latest update.
 
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