Baltimore Residents Afraid to Leave Their Homes

LowDown · Nov 17, 2017

A recent crime wave has Baltimore citizens afraid to go out on the streets.

The current murder rate in Baltimore is 50 per 100,000 per year, which is higher than it was in Baghdad for most of the Gulf war (not including deaths of combatants). Compare to the murder rate in New York City (5 per 100,000 per year) or to Houston (12 per 100,000 per year) in 2015.

"It's worse than Detroit or Chicago," says one Baltimore citizen. True, but only barely for Detroit (48 per 100,000 per year). Chicago comes in at 30 per 100,000 per year in 2015

Number one in the to 50 large cities is St. Louis at 63 per 100,000 per year. (2015 figures)

The highest that the murder rate got in Baghdad was 19.5 per 100,000 per year according to the Wall Street Journal.

The term "war zone" is only a matter of semantics.

https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/02/daily-chart-3

How High Is the Murder Rate in Baghdad? | Fox News

Citizens in Baltimore asked if the city government even cares that a lot of people are getting murdered there. Mayor Pugh called a press conference to say that she emphatically does care. Things that she's doing in response to the crisis include holding a lot of meetings of city officials, putting more lights in public areas, and telling the police department to increase hiring.

In other news, some advocates for the civil rights of blacks and browns are now protesting the use of body cameras by police. They want the police to write crime reports without reviewing body camera footage. The only sense I can make out of this is that they want the advantage of being able to claim that the police are lying if the footage and the report don't match. The body cameras are not giving advocates what they want.

Baltimore Mayor Reacts To Crime: ‘I Am Deeply Disturbed’ « CBS Baltimore

Police Body Cameras Can Threaten Civil Rights of Black and Brown People, New Report Says

MaggieD · Nov 17, 2017

LowDown said:
A recent crime wave has Baltimore citizens afraid to go out on the streets.

The current murder rate in Baltimore is 50 per 100,000 per year, which is higher than it was in Baghdad for most of the Gulf war (not including deaths of combatants). Compare to the murder rate in New York City (5 per 100,000 per year) or to Houston (12 per 100,000 per year) in 2015.

"It's worse than Detroit or Chicago," says one Baltimore citizen. True, but only barely for Detroit (48 per 100,000 per year). Chicago comes in at 30 per 100,000 per year in 2015

Number one in the to 50 large cities is St. Louis at 63 per 100,000 per year. (2015 figures)

The highest that the murder rate got in Baghdad was 19.5 per 100,000 per year according to the Wall Street Journal.

The term "war zone" is only a matter of semantics.

https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/02/daily-chart-3

How High Is the Murder Rate in Baghdad? | Fox News

Citizens in Baltimore asked if the city government even cares that a lot of people are getting murdered there. Mayor Pugh called a press conference to say that she emphatically does care. Things that she's doing in response to the crisis include holding a lot of meetings of city officials, putting more lights in public areas, and telling the police department to increase hiring.

In other news, some advocates for the civil rights of blacks and browns are now protesting the use of body cameras by police. They want the police to write crime reports without reviewing body camera footage. The only sense I can make out of this is that they want the advantage of being able to claim that the police are lying if the footage and the report don't match. The body cameras are not giving advocates what they want.

Baltimore Mayor Reacts To Crime: ‘I Am Deeply Disturbed’ « CBS Baltimore

Police Body Cameras Can Threaten Civil Rights of Black and Brown People, New Report Says

Absolutely disgusting. There is no excuse for inner-city war zones. If that was happening in my neighborhood, the National Guard would be patrolling the streets. In some of those neighborhoods it’s snitches get stitches. Makes me sick.

Make no mistake about it. This is the fault local government. One of the most basic reasons for even HAVING gvmt is for law and order. All of our major cities are complete and utter failures.

joG · Nov 17, 2017

LowDown said:
A recent crime wave has Baltimore citizens afraid to go out on the streets.

The current murder rate in Baltimore is 50 per 100,000 per year, which is higher than it was in Baghdad for most of the Gulf war (not including deaths of combatants). Compare to the murder rate in New York City (5 per 100,000 per year) or to Houston (12 per 100,000 per year) in 2015.

"It's worse than Detroit or Chicago," says one Baltimore citizen. True, but only barely for Detroit (48 per 100,000 per year). Chicago comes in at 30 per 100,000 per year in 2015

Number one in the to 50 large cities is St. Louis at 63 per 100,000 per year. (2015 figures)

The highest that the murder rate got in Baghdad was 19.5 per 100,000 per year according to the Wall Street Journal.

The term "war zone" is only a matter of semantics.

https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/02/daily-chart-3

How High Is the Murder Rate in Baghdad? | Fox News

Citizens in Baltimore asked if the city government even cares that a lot of people are getting murdered there. Mayor Pugh called a press conference to say that she emphatically does care. Things that she's doing in response to the crisis include holding a lot of meetings of city officials, putting more lights in public areas, and telling the police department to increase hiring.

In other news, some advocates for the civil rights of blacks and browns are now protesting the use of body cameras by police. They want the police to write crime reports without reviewing body camera footage. The only sense I can make out of this is that they want the advantage of being able to claim that the police are lying if the footage and the report don't match. The body cameras are not giving advocates what they want.

Baltimore Mayor Reacts To Crime: ‘I Am Deeply Disturbed’ « CBS Baltimore

Police Body Cameras Can Threaten Civil Rights of Black and Brown People, New Report Says

The body cams are only an aside. The real problem is that we are not honest with ourselves and often don’t have the stomach to do the things we should do.

CletusWilbury · Nov 17, 2017

LowDown said:
...

The current murder rate in Baltimore is 50 per 100,000 per year, which is higher than it was in Baghdad for most of the Gulf war (not including deaths of combatants).
...
The term "war zone" is only a matter of semantics.
...

My bold. I see shifting definitions.

LowDown · Nov 18, 2017

CletusWilbury said:
My bold. I see shifting definitions.

Point well taken. It makes me wonder how many combatants were killed in Baghdad. The figures I cite are for civilian, non-combatant deaths.

The Iraq Body Count puts the total civilian deaths at a maximum of 201,158 since 2003. With combatants it comes to 268,000. That would, applied to Baghdad, bring the death rate up to 26 per 100,000 per year with combatants, still a lot less than Baltimore.

CletusWilbury · Nov 18, 2017

LowDown said:
Point well taken. It makes me wonder how many combatants were killed in Baghdad. The figures I cite are for civilian, non-combatant deaths.

The Iraq Body Count puts the total civilian deaths at a maximum of 201,158 since 2003. With combatants it comes to 268,000. That would, applied to Baghdad, bring the death rate up to 26 per 100,000 per year with combatants, still a lot less than Baltimore.

Check your math, that sounds way off.

ludin · Nov 19, 2017

MaggieD said:
Absolutely disgusting. There is no excuse for inner-city war zones. If that was happening in my neighborhood, the National Guard would be patrolling the streets. In some of those neighborhoods it’s snitches get stitches. Makes me sick.

Make no mistake about it. This is the fault local government. One of the most basic reasons for even HAVING gvmt is for law and order. All of our major cities are complete and utter failures.

That city has always been a slum. It has never been a nice place to live. I would put it right up there with Oakland.

Fishking · Nov 19, 2017

CletusWilbury said:
My bold. I see shifting definitions.

That's barely a distinction to make. The situation was/is bad there. The rate may not have counted the combat deaths but there were still plenty of IEDs and VBIEDs taking crowds of people. The governor of Baghdad was assassinated right outside of my FOB. It was so bad, with people so scared, that one of the deadliest incidents that happened was a crowded bridge turning into a stampede just because rumor of an IED swept the crowd. I think that was around 70 some people, iirc. In other words, not counting combat deaths doesn't alleviate how bad it is in our cities, when making the comparison.

CletusWilbury · Nov 19, 2017

Fishking said:
... In other words, not counting combat deaths doesn't alleviate how bad it is in our cities, when making the comparison.

It was an absurd claim.

Fishking · Nov 19, 2017

CletusWilbury said:
It was an absurd claim.

No...it really isn't absurd. It doesn't matter if you take out combat deaths. The place was still full of weaponry, explosives, and hundreds of years of sectarian and tribal angst. I know, I saw it.

Common Sense 1 · Nov 19, 2017

Years ago we would visit the Inner harbor in Baltimore. It was a truly nice place to
take out of town visitors. Many great restaurants and sights to see. But over time it became
dangerous to venture into the city. Today I would not go to the Inner Harbor. Roving
gangs of out of control teenagers robbing and assaulting people at will. A murder count
over 300+ for the 3rd year in a row. A court system so out of touch with the mayhem
occurring each and everyday. Putting criminals back on the street when they should be
in jail. The juvenile court system is truly broken. Kids committing multiple felony's and
no consequence but a hand slap. A city that is spiraling out of control.

haymarket · Nov 19, 2017

Common Sense 1 said:
Years ago we would visit the Inner harbor in Baltimore. It was a truly nice place to
take out of town visitors. Many great restaurants and sights to see. But over time it became
dangerous to venture into the city. Today I would not go to the Inner Harbor. Roving
gangs of out of control teenagers robbing and assaulting people at will. A murder count
over 300+ for the 3rd year in a row. A court system so out of touch with the mayhem
occurring each and everyday. Putting criminals back on the street when they should be
in jail. The juvenile court system is truly broken. Kids committing multiple felony's and
no consequence but a hand slap. A city that is spiraling out of control.

Two summers ago my wife and I took our grandson to Baltimore. We visited the Inner Harbor and took in a ball game and had a wonderful time for the three days we were there. We walked thru the Italian area as well as other areas and had no problems of any kind.

Common Sense 1 · Nov 19, 2017

haymarket said:
Two summers ago my wife and I took our grandson to Baltimore. We visited the Inner Harbor and took in a ball game and had a wonderful time for the three days we were there. We walked thru the Italian area as well as other areas and had no problems of any kind.

Glad you guys had a good trip. There has been a change in the safety factor. Watch the local news from Baltimore and you will see story's about that.

RetiredUSN · Nov 19, 2017

Common Sense 1 said:
Years ago we would visit the Inner harbor in Baltimore. It was a truly nice place to
take out of town visitors. Many great restaurants and sights to see. But over time it became
dangerous to venture into the city. Today I would not go to the Inner Harbor. Roving
gangs of out of control teenagers robbing and assaulting people at will. A murder count
over 300+ for the 3rd year in a row. A court system so out of touch with the mayhem
occurring each and everyday. Putting criminals back on the street when they should be
in jail. The juvenile court system is truly broken. Kids committing multiple felony's and
no consequence but a hand slap. A city that is spiraling out of control.

I used to walk over to the inner harbor from the T/A Truckstop at exit 57 just to get some exercise. It would take about an hour and 20 minutes or so.

You're right. It used to be really nice.

LowDown · Nov 19, 2017

CletusWilbury said:
It was an absurd claim.

People always say that, but they can never show why it is wrong.

CletusWilbury · Nov 20, 2017

LowDown said:
People always say that, but they can never show why it is wrong.

I'll tell you, again, why I thought it was an absurd statement.

Here's the statement:

The current murder rate in Baltimore is 50 per 100,000 per year, which is higher than it was in Baghdad for most of the Gulf war (not including deaths of combatants).
...
The term "war zone" is only a matter of semantics.
...

Your 2003 Fox article mentions Baghdad's murder rate "Some assert that in October Baghdad had one of the highest murder rates in the world, while others point to numbers that it was below even the U.S.'s own murder rate. "
This is what makes it a war zone: Iraq study estimates war-related deaths at 461,000

On the other hand, I found you had a good point
Sectarian violence in Iraq (2006–08)

...
In the aftermath of this ( al-Askari Mosque ) attack the U.S. military calculated that the average homicide rate in Baghdad tripled from 11 to 33 deaths per day
...

Homicides In Chicago Eclipse U.S. Death Toll In Afghanistan And Iraq

...
With an average of 12 people shot every day, shootings and homicides have become a grim normality for some residents.
...

These stats are not really comparable, but as Chicago population 2.7 million, Baghdad 7.7 million,
Chicago looks worse than sectarian murder in Baghdad during what I called a civil war.

Baltimore Residents Afraid to Leave Their Homes

LowDown

Curmudgeon

MaggieD

joG

CletusWilbury

Well-known member

LowDown

Curmudgeon

CletusWilbury

Well-known member

ludin

Fishking

CletusWilbury

Well-known member

Fishking

Common Sense 1

haymarket

Common Sense 1

RetiredUSN

LowDown

Curmudgeon

CletusWilbury

Well-known member