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Thread: Use Of Force Continuum

  1. #21
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    Re: Use Of Force Continuum

    There is a legal convention called Disparity of Force which comes into play.
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    Re: Use Of Force Continuum

    So lets say a grown man roughly my size starts a fight with me and he somehow gets physical with me. I fight back, I punch him once and knock him out and since he's lying there incapacitated he's no longer coming at me and so I stop. Self defense should be valid in this case, I stopped when he stopped and I did not use excessive force. He's a grown man, Im a grown man. He used his bare hands, I used my bare hands. Had he been a woman or a small child or if I had used a weapon than there might be problems but a grown man = a grown man and bare hands = bare hands so I shouldn't get in trouble in a situation such as this.

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    Re: Use Of Force Continuum

    Quote Originally Posted by DebateChallenge View Post
    When dealing with a threat or an assailant, you can use reasonable force in self defense. Once you've neutralized the threat you can't keep beating your assailant as that would no longer be a case of self defense. But aside from that from what I know there is also the continuum of force where you can't use more force than what is necessary to stop the threat, of course that is a very gray area. Its obvious that you can't shoot a small child who takes a slap at you and call it self defense but lets say a grown man roughly my size is coming at me with his bare hands. I fight back and I don't use any weapons and I stop him and I do not continue the use of force after I've stopped him. In that situation I shouldn't get in trouble since a grown man should be equal to another grown man of roughly the same size and bare hands should be equal to bare hands. Had I used a weapon that might be seen as excessive and taking it to the next level but if I don't use any weapons and I stop when he stops I don't see why there should be any problems with that.

    Ok. I have a concealed carry license. My training was given to me by a Local Deputy ( Now deceased ) - whom lived in the county east of me, himself a former Marine. He was a National Rifle Association certified Concealed Carry Instructor.


    1) The bad guy, or threat - does not have to have a gun.....OR WEAPON to get shot.

    2) This is very important === Laws involving self defense / fighting / shootings....... vary from state to state. Prosecutors , District Attorneys .....also vary from personality to personality. One Prosecutors justifiable homicide ( Where I'm From = "The killing of a person in order to prevent a felony" ) ......is another Prosecutors Grand Jury case. Simple solution......"Act stupid". Brave in the parking lot at your local convenience store...where you got into a fight --- But dumber than hell and ignorant in front of the Prosecutor. Let the Prosecutor / District Attorney believe that you are dumber than dirt ' compliment them quietly -- by acting like you have a eighth grade education.....and they are all smart. Camouflage yourself personality and attitude wise.



    3) If it looks like a bad area you are going to or are visiting , it probably is. Turn around and leave. Avoidance is the best procedure. If you have a right to be where you are, a need to be where you are and
    someone starts a physical confrontation ---- Kick their *ss.


    4) If you carry concealed ---- have a good defense lawyer in mind, in case you need them.

    5) Think ahead and plan ahead.





    Major Lambda

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    Re: Use Of Force Continuum

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Lambda View Post
    Ok. I have a concealed carry license. My training was given to me by a Local Deputy ( Now deceased ) - whom lived in the county east of me, himself a former Marine. He was a National Rifle Association certified Concealed Carry Instructor.


    1) The bad guy, or threat - does not have to have a gun.....OR WEAPON to get shot.

    2) This is very important === Laws involving self defense / fighting / shootings....... vary from state to state. Prosecutors , District Attorneys .....also vary from personality to personality. One Prosecutors justifiable homicide ( Where I'm From = "The killing of a person in order to prevent a felony" ) ......is another Prosecutors Grand Jury case. Simple solution......"Act stupid". Brave in the parking lot at your local convenience store...where you got into a fight --- But dumber than hell and ignorant in front of the Prosecutor. Let the Prosecutor / District Attorney believe that you are dumber than dirt ' compliment them quietly -- by acting like you have a eighth grade education.....and they are all smart. Camouflage yourself personality and attitude wise.



    3) If it looks like a bad area you are going to or are visiting , it probably is. Turn around and leave. Avoidance is the best procedure. If you have a right to be where you are, a need to be where you are and
    someone starts a physical confrontation ---- Kick their *ss.


    4) If you carry concealed ---- have a good defense lawyer in mind, in case you need them.

    5) Think ahead and plan ahead.





    Major Lambda
    Dude Im not talking about carrying or using weapons. Im talking about a situation where nobody has any weapons and where nobody uses any weapons other than their hands, or feet or whatever. I will give you an example. Lets say Im a guy in college. Now lets say some other guy in college, say in the dormitory hallway gets physical with me. I fight back and I stop him and I stop when he stops. I shouldn't get in trouble because I was defending myself and I stopped when he stopped. If I was to continue to beat on him after I stopped him that would not be self defense since after stopping him there is no reason to keep beating on him but in this situation I stop once I stop him. We're both guys in college and we both aren't using any weapons so I am on the same force continuum he is on so I shouldn't get in trouble as I did not use excessive force. This would be self defense which as I understand is a legal right. So this is the kind of situation Im talking about.

  5. #25
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    Re: Use Of Force Continuum

    Quote Originally Posted by DebateChallenge View Post
    When dealing with a threat or an assailant, you can use reasonable force in self defense. Once you've neutralized the threat you can't keep beating your assailant as that would no longer be a case of self defense. But aside from that from what I know there is also the continuum of force where you can't use more force than what is necessary to stop the threat, of course that is a very gray area. Its obvious that you can't shoot a small child who takes a slap at you and call it self defense but lets say a grown man roughly my size is coming at me with his bare hands. I fight back and I don't use any weapons and I stop him and I do not continue the use of force after I've stopped him. In that situation I shouldn't get in trouble since a grown man should be equal to another grown man of roughly the same size and bare hands should be equal to bare hands. Had I used a weapon that might be seen as excessive and taking it to the next level but if I don't use any weapons and I stop when he stops I don't see why there should be any problems with that.
    This IN NO WAY applies to LE, as we have seen LE pump 'excessive' amounts of rounds into both armed & unarmed citizens, and they walk free.

    When a non LE citizen does this they typically face murder charges because DA's determine 'excessive' force is used within the parameters of the claimed 'self defense' claim.
    Last edited by cuban smokes; 01-30-18 at 12:23 PM.
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    Re: Use Of Force Continuum

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Castle Doctrine enumerates an inherent lethal threat in the case of home invasion. Respond in kind.

    SYG enumerates an inherent lethal threat in the commission of a forcible felony. Respond in kind.
    It has been well documented that homes have been 'raided' by LE and occupants have been injured & killed by LE, many occupants never utilizing a firearm, completely unarmed.
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    Re: Use Of Force Continuum

    Quote Originally Posted by cuban smokes View Post
    This IN NO WAY applies to LE, as we have seen LE pump 'excessive' amounts of rounds into both armed & unarmed citizens, and they walk free.

    When a non LE citizen does this they typically face murder charges because DA's determine 'excessive' force is used within the parameters of the claimed 'self defense' claim.
    Can you give an example of police overshooting people?

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    Re: Use Of Force Continuum

    Quote Originally Posted by Maccabee View Post
    Can you give an example of police overshooting people?
    are you kidding me? I guess you never see the news .......

    Last edited by cuban smokes; 02-05-18 at 07:03 AM.
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    Re: Use Of Force Continuum

    Quote Originally Posted by cuban smokes View Post
    are you kidding me? I guess you never see the news .......

    They shot to stop the threat. He kept moving so they continued until he was no longer a threat. So this is not an example of overshooting.

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    Re: Use Of Force Continuum

    Quote Originally Posted by Maccabee View Post
    They shot to stop the threat. He kept moving so they continued until he was no longer a threat. So this is not an example of overshooting.
    the guy was over 20 feet away from the cops with a small knife, HOWEVER he encountered a 'firing squad' .............
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