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Parents in New York town could face jail, fine under new anti-bullying law

Kal'Stang

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Parents in New York town could face jail, fine under new anti-bullying law]ABC News ? Breaking News, Latest News, Headlines & Videos

Parents could be fined $250 and sentenced to 15 days in jail, according to North Tonawanda City Attorney Luke Brown. Parents could face punishment if their child violates the city's curfew or any city law, including bullying, twice over the course of 90 days.

Personally I don't agree with this law. Now a days parents are extremely restricted in how they are able to discipline their children thanks to a CPS that has far more power than it should. For troublesome children simply sending them to their room or putting them in a corner is not enough. (and even that I've seen considered as abuse by some people) Additionally we're supposed to punish those that violate our laws, not those that are related to them simply because they're related to them. And yeah, parents are supposed to teach their children. That doesn't mean that children won't be influenced by their buddies in middle school/high school where most bullying happens.

What do you think?
 
Parents in New York town could face jail, fine under new anti-bullying law]ABC News ? Breaking News, Latest News, Headlines & Videos



Personally I don't agree with this law. Now a days parents are extremely restricted in how they are able to discipline their children thanks to a CPS that has far more power than it should. For troublesome children simply sending them to their room or putting them in a corner is not enough. (and even that I've seen considered as abuse by some people) Additionally we're supposed to punish those that violate our laws, not those that are related to them simply because they're related to them. And yeah, parents are supposed to teach their children. That doesn't mean that children won't be influenced by their buddies in middle school/high school where most bullying happens.

What do you think?

I've come to the conclusion that having kids ist too dangerous and increasingly less fun. If we keep this up, we will have to pay trained personnel to mind them and import them, when they are grown up.
 
Parents in New York town could face jail, fine under new anti-bullying law]ABC News ? Breaking News, Latest News, Headlines & Videos

Personally I don't agree with this law. Now a days parents are extremely restricted in how they are able to discipline their children thanks to a CPS that has far more power than it should. For troublesome children simply sending them to their room or putting them in a corner is not enough. (and even that I've seen considered as abuse by some people) Additionally we're supposed to punish those that violate our laws, not those that are related to them simply because they're related to them. And yeah, parents are supposed to teach their children. That doesn't mean that children won't be influenced by their buddies in middle school/high school where most bullying happens.

What do you think?

Well, I subscribe to the parental doctrine of I-own-the-very-air-you-breath. So, in the case of a law that will punish the parent for the sins of the child, I have to answer, “It depends.”

Parental abuse comes in many forms. When you have children, it becomes your responsibility for at least 18 years to keep preparing them for adulthood. Fail to do that, and you’ve failed as a parent. Should there be a penalty for that failure? In many cases, the answer is yes, IMO.

As to being limited in the ways one can discipline their kids, that’s a copout. In today’s world we have the absolutely perfect way to discipline. Take away their toys. Sentencing a kid to their room as punishment is too often sentencing them to a stint in Disneyland. An XBox, their own TV, an IPad or desktop or laptop, their phone... in too many cases, that’s heaven on earth. “And they don’t even bother me!” may well be their thought process.

If your fifteen-year-old is violating curfew? That’s YOUR fault. Ditching? YOUR fault. Getting lousy grades? YOUR fault. If he’s bullying kids at school, that’s YOUR fault. If he’s stealing? That’s YOUR fault. If he’s fighting? That’s your fault, too. Unless a parent can show they have taken concrete steps to correct this behavior, they are culpable, in my opinion. And I have no problem with society punishing them in some way for their failure.
 
Parenting is like the third rail in the subway. There are so many people who have been handicapped because the parents didn’t know, care or were overwhelmed. Even the best parents have to, at some point, “release their kids into the wild.” There the children face new people, pressures and scenarios. The child from the engaged parents is then worked on in a different way. This is where environment comes to play. There are many variables to be considered. “Back in the day,” holding parents responsible for the actions of the children, either by the legal system or by judgement in the community. There used to be tight communities and what the community’s opinion was mattered. Now people are not bound by community as they were in the past.
If the parents are incarcerated for 15 days, what happens to the children? I’m not certain there is an answer in my post. Tough subject.............
 
If your kids don't fall to the floor in the fetal position and whimper when you walk into the room, you have failed as a parent. ;)
 
Parents in New York town could face jail, fine under new anti-bullying law]ABC News ? Breaking News, Latest News, Headlines & Videos



Personally I don't agree with this law. Now a days parents are extremely restricted in how they are able to discipline their children thanks to a CPS that has far more power than it should. For troublesome children simply sending them to their room or putting them in a corner is not enough. (and even that I've seen considered as abuse by some people) Additionally we're supposed to punish those that violate our laws, not those that are related to them simply because they're related to them. And yeah, parents are supposed to teach their children. That doesn't mean that children won't be influenced by their buddies in middle school/high school where most bullying happens.

What do you think?

Never addressed is whether one or both parents are to be held legally responsible or what happens to their children when the parents are serving jail time. It appears that the city is trying to pass the buck to the parents for its failure to have a juvenile justice system capable of dealing with problem kids. How about the novel approach of locking up the kid if they skip school, bully someone and/or violate curfew twice in 90 days?
 
My first reaction to this was "bravo". Haven't heard or read a reasonable counter argument, anywhere, that would change my mind.
 
I think in the case of bullying, parents should be held accountable. If your kid was bullying mine, I would pay you a friendly visit and ask you to put an end to it. If the bullying continued, the next visit would be Tony Soprano-like. ;)
 
Well, I subscribe to the parental doctrine of I-own-the-very-air-you-breath. So, in the case of a law that will punish the parent for the sins of the child, I have to answer, “It depends.”

Parental abuse comes in many forms. When you have children, it becomes your responsibility for at least 18 years to keep preparing them for adulthood. Fail to do that, and you’ve failed as a parent. Should there be a penalty for that failure? In many cases, the answer is yes, IMO.

As to being limited in the ways one can discipline their kids, that’s a copout. In today’s world we have the absolutely perfect way to discipline. Take away their toys. Sentencing a kid to their room as punishment is too often sentencing them to a stint in Disneyland. An XBox, their own TV, an IPad or desktop or laptop, their phone... in too many cases, that’s heaven on earth. “And they don’t even bother me!” may well be their thought process.

If your fifteen-year-old is violating curfew? That’s YOUR fault. Ditching? YOUR fault. Getting lousy grades? YOUR fault. If he’s bullying kids at school, that’s YOUR fault. If he’s stealing? That’s YOUR fault. If he’s fighting? That’s your fault, too. Unless a parent can show they have taken concrete steps to correct this behavior, they are culpable, in my opinion. And I have no problem with society punishing them in some way for their failure.

Sorry but I don't believe much of this. There are children that simply don't care about punishments. I was one of those children so I know that to be a fact. My folks spanked me with paddles, belts, willow branches, their hands, wooden spoons etc etc. Got sent to my room with no toys to speak of left in the room. Had to write several hundred times that I wouldn't do X. One time when I stole something they even tied my hands behind my back while I sat in a corner. But NONE of it phased me in the slightest. They even tried the give and take method. (treat for doing good, punishment for doing bad). Still didn't phase me. I was grounded so much that I never even got to go to a school dance or hang out with friends until I was in 10th grade. If I wasn't at school I was at home. If I wasn't at school or home I was with my folks at their place of work. NOTHING that they did phased me. I simply didn't care. I was going to do what I wanted to do regardless of anything else.

So my parents certainly tried their best with me. Know what finally did cure me? Jail time. 3 months in an open cell with 20 cots in the cell sleeping next to gang members and criminals that did far worse than I EVER did.

Why should my parents be punished for the things that I did? They shouldn't. Now today parents are even more hobbled in how they can punish their children. Not to mention single parent households are higher today than they've ever been. Which makes disciplining children twice as hard at the very least. What good would it do to put a single mother in jail for 15 days? None. In fact it would probably make the situation even worse because the truly vindictive child (and there are a lot of them now a days) would misbehave just because they know that they can get their parents in trouble. Getting revenge for all the perceived "wrongs" that their parents did to them.
 
Legalizing abortion up to the age of 18 would certainly make children more polite in society.


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Sorry but I don't believe much of this. There are children that simply don't care about punishments. I was one of those children so I know that to be a fact. My folks spanked me with paddles, belts, willow branches, their hands, wooden spoons etc etc. Got sent to my room with no toys to speak of left in the room. Had to write several hundred times that I wouldn't do X. One time when I stole something they even tied my hands behind my back while I sat in a corner. But NONE of it phased me in the slightest. They even tried the give and take method. (treat for doing good, punishment for doing bad). Still didn't phase me. I was grounded so much that I never even got to go to a school dance or hang out with friends until I was in 10th grade. If I wasn't at school I was at home. If I wasn't at school or home I was with my folks at their place of work. NOTHING that they did phased me. I simply didn't care. I was going to do what I wanted to do regardless of anything else.

So my parents certainly tried their best with me. Know what finally did cure me? Jail time. 3 months in an open cell with 20 cots in the cell sleeping next to gang members and criminals that did far worse than I EVER did.

Why should my parents be punished for the things that I did? They shouldn't. Now today parents are even more hobbled in how they can punish their children. Not to mention single parent households are higher today than they've ever been. Which makes disciplining children twice as hard at the very least. What good would it do to put a single mother in jail for 15 days? None. In fact it would probably make the situation even worse because the truly vindictive child (and there are a lot of them now a days) would misbehave just because they know that they can get their parents in trouble. Getting revenge for all the perceived "wrongs" that their parents did to them.

You were a hard case. Your parents failed from the time you were a little boy unless you are a sociopath. Maybe because they used corporal punishment...? I don’t believe in that, so it pains me to think about it for you.

So they took away your phone, your game station, your TV, your computer, took the door off your room and STILL you were incorrigible? Did they put you in counseling? Did they call the cops? If they did all of that? They did their best. No punishment for them.
 
You were a hard case. Your parents failed from the time you were a little boy unless you are a sociopath. Maybe because they used corporal punishment...? I don’t believe in that, so it pains me to think about it for you.

So they took away your phone, your game station, your TV, your computer, took the door off your room and STILL you were incorrigible? Did they put you in counseling? Did they call the cops? If they did all of that? They did their best. No punishment for them.

Yes, I was a hard case. And no, it had nothing to do with spanking me. They never spanked my sister who also did worse things than me. Like skipping school and sneaking out at night and getting pregnant by age 15.

Never had a game station. Never had a TV or computer of my own. Heck, didn't even have a computer until age 22. Same with my own TV. Only time I ever saw computers was in school. Yes I was counseled. No they didn't call the cops. That simply wasn't done. Besides, at that point in my life I can say with 100% certainty that talking to a cop would not have phased me either. I would have listened to them respectfully and then went ahead and did what I wanted to do the moment I had a chance to do so. I was a very willful child. In fact I'm still fairly willful and still do my own thing despite parental advice given from anyone and everyone. Only difference now is that I obey the law. And even then if I feel justified I will break a law as I did when I tried to keep some drunk parents from their kids. (cops sympathized with me on that one so wasn't charged ;) though I still had to let the kids go with the parents in the end :( ) And no, the door wasn't taken off for the simple fact that I generally shared a room with my brother and it wouldn't have been right to punish him for my misdeeds.

And don't feel bad about my spankings. I made it into a game actually. I literally would break rules just to see if I would get spanked at times. My teacher in 3rd grade even tried putting my name up on the board every time I failed to turn in homework. Along with being sent to the principles office where he would then paddle me (which was still allowed at the time). By the end of the quarter I had half that chalk board filled up with my name alone. It went from something that was supposed to shame me and transformed into a perceived challenge. A challenge which I won the day they finally erased my name off that chalk board.....like I said, I was a VERY willful child. ;)
 
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You were a hard case. Your parents failed from the time you were a little boy unless you are a sociopath. Maybe because they used corporal punishment...? I don’t believe in that, so it pains me to think about it for you.

So they took away your phone, your game station, your TV, your computer, took the door off your room and STILL you were incorrigible? Did they put you in counseling? Did they call the cops? If they did all of that? They did their best. No punishment for them.

This comes off a little judgey Mags. My brother is a similar story to Kal, but for him, it wasn't a few months in county jail, it took years in prison. If you didn't have a trouble maker kid, you're fortunate and give your kids a little of the credit. Parents are never going to 100% know what their kids are into. I was relatively good in school, never got in any serious trouble, but I still did things that to this day, may parents don't know about. Sure there are parents that just flat don't care, but I doubt that's most and most do their best. Besides, how does it teach bullies responsibility for their actions when it's someone else who gets the consequences?
 
This comes off a little judgey Mags. My brother is a similar story to Kal, but for him, it wasn't a few months in county jail, it took years in prison. If you didn't have a trouble maker kid, you're fortunate and give your kids a little of the credit. Parents are never going to 100% know what their kids are into. I was relatively good in school, never got in any serious trouble, but I still did things that to this day, may parents don't know about. Sure there are parents that just flat don't care, but I doubt that's most and most do their best. Besides, how does it teach bullies responsibility for their actions when it's someone else who gets the consequences?

I’ve never had any children, X. It’s sooo easy for me to talk. ;)
 
Parents in New York town could face jail, fine under new anti-bullying law]ABC News ? Breaking News, Latest News, Headlines & Videos



Personally I don't agree with this law. Now a days parents are extremely restricted in how they are able to discipline their children thanks to a CPS that has far more power than it should. For troublesome children simply sending them to their room or putting them in a corner is not enough. (and even that I've seen considered as abuse by some people) Additionally we're supposed to punish those that violate our laws, not those that are related to them simply because they're related to them. And yeah, parents are supposed to teach their children. That doesn't mean that children won't be influenced by their buddies in middle school/high school where most bullying happens.

What do you think?

I think if you have a repeat problem child it is more likely then not that child is abused or neglected at home, so punishing parents makes some sense.

CPS barely has funding to deal with kids in drug houses, they're not cracking down on parents actually doing their jobs
 
Sorry but I don't believe much of this. There are children that simply don't care about punishments. I was one of those children so I know that to be a fact. My folks spanked me with paddles, belts, willow branches, their hands, wooden spoons etc etc. Got sent to my room with no toys to speak of left in the room. Had to write several hundred times that I wouldn't do X. One time when I stole something they even tied my hands behind my back while I sat in a corner. But NONE of it phased me in the slightest. They even tried the give and take method. (treat for doing good, punishment for doing bad). Still didn't phase me. I was grounded so much that I never even got to go to a school dance or hang out with friends until I was in 10th grade. If I wasn't at school I was at home. If I wasn't at school or home I was with my folks at their place of work. NOTHING that they did phased me. I simply didn't care. I was going to do what I wanted to do regardless of anything else.

So my parents certainly tried their best with me. Know what finally did cure me? Jail time. 3 months in an open cell with 20 cots in the cell sleeping next to gang members and criminals that did far worse than I EVER did.

Why should my parents be punished for the things that I did? They shouldn't. Now today parents are even more hobbled in how they can punish their children. Not to mention single parent households are higher today than they've ever been. Which makes disciplining children twice as hard at the very least. What good would it do to put a single mother in jail for 15 days? None. In fact it would probably make the situation even worse because the truly vindictive child (and there are a lot of them now a days) would misbehave just because they know that they can get their parents in trouble. Getting revenge for all the perceived "wrongs" that their parents did to them.

Which by the way is shown to increase aggression and violent behavior in children.
 
I think if you have a repeat problem child it is more likely then not that child is abused or neglected at home, so punishing parents makes some sense.

Child neglect and abuse is already against the law and things which parents may be punished for. And I fully support that so long as its actual abuse or neglect. I never considered myself abused and still don't. My willfulness had nothing to do with what my parents did or didn't do. It had everything to do with my own choices. My own willfulness.

CPS barely has funding to deal with kids in drug houses, they're not cracking down on parents actually doing their jobs

I have a friend who would disagree with that. He had his child taken away and custody handed over to the childs grand parents simply because the child claimed that he abused her. She had one bruise on her leg due to falling down some stairs. He never abused her.
 
Which by the way is shown to increase aggression and violent behavior in children.

Never did me. :shrug: While I may have been willful as a child I was never violent. In fact I was a loner in school and often got bullied. Loved my dog and cats. Didn't torture them. Never acted out in violence for anything. (though I would certainly defend myself in a fight)

You see, those studies are not the end all be all of child rearing. Every child is different. Which makes raising them a challenge since there is no book, or study, in the world that accounts for every type of child out there. All you'll ever find is generalizations. Which don't help in the slightest if your kid does not fall into the mid range that those books and studies are generally about.
 
Well, I subscribe to the parental doctrine of I-own-the-very-air-you-breath. So, in the case of a law that will punish the parent for the sins of the child, I have to answer, “It depends.”

Parental abuse comes in many forms. When you have children, it becomes your responsibility for at least 18 years to keep preparing them for adulthood. Fail to do that, and you’ve failed as a parent. Should there be a penalty for that failure? In many cases, the answer is yes, IMO.

As to being limited in the ways one can discipline their kids, that’s a copout. In today’s world we have the absolutely perfect way to discipline. Take away their toys. Sentencing a kid to their room as punishment is too often sentencing them to a stint in Disneyland. An XBox, their own TV, an IPad or desktop or laptop, their phone... in too many cases, that’s heaven on earth. “And they don’t even bother me!” may well be their thought process.

If your fifteen-year-old is violating curfew? That’s YOUR fault. Ditching? YOUR fault. Getting lousy grades? YOUR fault. If he’s bullying kids at school, that’s YOUR fault. If he’s stealing? That’s YOUR fault. If he’s fighting? That’s your fault, too. Unless a parent can show they have taken concrete steps to correct this behavior, they are culpable, in my opinion. And I have no problem with society punishing them in some way for their failure.

You speak like someone who has never raised a kid? I don't know, but it is much harder than you are making it out to be. They have their own thoughts and personalities, they can't in some cases be controlled because they don't care or just want to do things their way.

Ditching? If I got caught, I was punished. Yet I did it again because I wanted too. How is that my parents fault? Same goes for grades etc etc.

In some cases you would be correct as every situation and person is different. However this law is a little over the top in my humble.
 
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I have two sex trophies.....they seemed to turn out okay with a bit of stern parenting when needed.

I learned early on you have to be a parent sometimes before you can be a best friend.
 
I have 4 kids. After everyone of them was born I'd run out to the mail box for weeks looking for that instruction book on 'how to raise kids'. The book never came, damn!!

There' too many factors.. Environment. income/wealth, DNA, friends, peers, etc, and on and on. There's no set answer, no set way to raise them. I wish there was. I have no answers. I do know this: I doubt you can legislate 'bullying', or how to raise a kids.
 
I drove a school bus for a couple of years. K to 12th grade. I also worked as a monitor in srudy hall and helped out in the cafeteria. I've seen first hand how some parents are more and more pushing the 'Not my child' syndrome. The school didn't help with their reluctance to punish kids for their behavior while at school. Due to parental pressure, the school provided transportation for kids that got detention after school! Seriously. I KNOW for a fact that if the parent had to leave work or be otherwise put out, by having to pick up their kid after detention, the number of incidents would decrease. So I am all for holding parents responsible to a degree.

As previously mentioned, if a parent has done as much as they could, then they shouldn't be held accountable by law. It would have to be a case by case decision.
 
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