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Parents in New York town could face jail, fine under new anti-bullying law

You speak like someone who has never raised a kid? I don't know, but it is much harder than you are making it out to be. They have there own thoughts and personalities, they can't in some cases be controlled because they don't care or just want to do thing their way.

Ditching? If I got caught, I was punished. Yet I did it again because I wanted too. How is that my parents fault? Same goes for grades etc etc.

In some cases you would be correct as every situation and person is different. However this law is a little over the top in my humble.

You may have missed my second post that I’ve never had children. Easy for me to talk. ;)

Having said that, though, I’ve watched many successful parents Shepherd their children through the rough spots. And, in almost every case, they began their successful parenting journey when the kids were toddlers.

I was a hard case myself. A perfect angel ‘til thirteen. Then two years of hellbent. Both of my parents worked so I wasn’t the easiest kid to rein in.

When I ditched school and finally got caught? I was given one warning that I knew would happen. “If you ditch again? No more part-time job.” That was my hot button. And that was my only punishment. I liked earning my own money. I stopped ditching.

When I stole and got caught? I was taken back to the store to return it and apologize. A most humiliating experience done with much crying and gnashing of teeth.

When I fought? Dad asked me, “What did you fight with her about?” When I told him, he grounded me for the weekend. But much more effective than that was his understanding why I’d done it yet making it clear he did not approve. That disappointment was almost more than I could bear.

My mom spanked me when I was little, but probably never after I was seven or eight. My dad slapped me once. A few hours later, he came to me with tears in his eyes and apologized. I had never seen weakness in my dad and was gobsmacked.

I’ve seen my sister with her kids. No computers in their rooms. One in the family room. One in the kitchen. Always supervisory eyes on their computer activity. Her kids, glory be, never got in trouble in their teen years. But she started training them as toddlers. Talk about success stories. Two nurses, both got full rides at TCU, her son enlisted in the army and has earned many distinctions. All of them are strong in their faith. All of them have done missionary work in the third world. All of them volunteer.

My neighbor had a heck of a time with Denise as a teenager. Beautiful girl and very headstrong. Her hot button was taking the door off her room. She had to earn it back always knowing she’d lose it again if she misbehaved.

Problem kids, unless they have a personality disorder, are carefully nurtured on their journey to bad by their parents. That I believe.

Now, back to punishing the parents. Take stealing as an example. How do parents know you’re stealing? Well, when you amass a collection of goodies in your room and have discretionary money beyond normal? You’re up to something. Parents who choose to ignore the signs do so at their peril. A home shouldn’t be a hideout.
 
You may have missed my second post that I’ve never had children. Easy for me to talk. ;)

Having said that, though, I’ve watched many successful parents Shepherd their children through the rough spots. And, in almost every case, they began their successful parenting journey when the kids were toddlers.

I was a hard case myself. A perfect angel ‘til thirteen. Then two years of hellbent. Both of my parents worked so I wasn’t the easiest kid to rein in.

When I ditched school and finally got caught? I was given one warning that I knew would happen. “If you ditch again? No more part-time job.” That was my hot button. And that was my only punishment. I liked earning my own money. I stopped ditching.

When I stole and got caught? I was taken back to the store to return it and apologize. A most humiliating experience done with much crying and gnashing of teeth.

When I fought? Dad asked me, “What did you fight with her about?” When I told him, he grounded me for the weekend. But much more effective than that was his understanding why I’d done it yet making it clear he did not approve. That disappointment was almost more than I could bear.

My mom spanked me when I was little, but probably never after I was seven or eight. My dad slapped me once. A few hours later, he came to me with tears in his eyes and apologized. I had never seen weakness in my dad and was gobsmacked.

I’ve seen my sister with her kids. No computers in their rooms. One in the family room. One in the kitchen. Always supervisory eyes on their computer activity. Her kids, glory be, never got in trouble in their teen years. But she started training them as toddlers. Talk about success stories. Two nurses, both got full rides at TCU, her son enlisted in the army and has earned many distinctions. All of them are strong in their faith. All of them have done missionary work in the third world. All of them volunteer.

My neighbor had a heck of a time with Denise as a teenager. Beautiful girl and very headstrong. Her hot button was taking the door off her room. She had to earn it back always knowing she’d lose it again if she misbehaved.

Problem kids, unless they have a personality disorder, are carefully nurtured on their journey to bad by their parents. That I believe.

Now, back to punishing the parents. Take stealing as an example. How do parents know you’re stealing? Well, when you amass a collection of goodies in your room and have discretionary money beyond normal? You’re up to something. Parents who choose to ignore the signs do so at their peril. A home shouldn’t be a hideout.

Being a parent of a successful adult (breaks arm patting self on the back) I think holbritter, summed up my feelings the best.

I've seen first hand how some parents are more and more pushing the 'Not my child' syndrome. The school didn't help with their reluctance to punish kids for their behavior while at school. Due to parental pressure, the school provided transportation for kids that got detention after school! Seriously. I KNOW for a fact that if the parent had to leave work or be otherwise put out, by having to pick up their kid after detention, the number of incidents would decrease. So I am all for holding parents responsible to a degree.

As previously mentioned, if a parent has done as much as they could, then they shouldn't be held accountable by law. It would have to be a case by case decision.
- holbritter

I agree good parenting is a must. I also understand far to many things affect situations and as Holbritter said, "case to case" rather than a blanket law is the way to go.
 
Don't trust the APA as they do have an agenda, or at least quite a few org's think so. However my main concern is...

No data charts? a limited selection of 134 parents? No link to the backing data?

This is pretty suspect.
I'm not aware of any scientific information showing corporal punishment to not have psychological impacts on children. If you want to mess up your children in the head, hey it's legal so knock yourself out. At some point you can't just claim all science is a political conspiracy
 
I'm not aware of any scientific information showing corporal punishment to not have psychological impacts on children. If you want to mess up your children in the head, hey it's legal so knock yourself out. At some point you can't just claim all science is a political conspiracy

I am not claiming anything. I am asking you to produce reputable information. If the study was indeed what they say, where is all the data to back it up?
 
Parents in New York town could face jail, fine under new anti-bullying law]ABC News ? Breaking News, Latest News, Headlines & Videos



Personally I don't agree with this law. Now a days parents are extremely restricted in how they are able to discipline their children thanks to a CPS that has far more power than it should. For troublesome children simply sending them to their room or putting them in a corner is not enough. (and even that I've seen considered as abuse by some people) Additionally we're supposed to punish those that violate our laws, not those that are related to them simply because they're related to them. And yeah, parents are supposed to teach their children. That doesn't mean that children won't be influenced by their buddies in middle school/high school where most bullying happens.

What do you think?

There are some truly great parents that can have a truly **** kid. Seen it many many times over the years. Punishing the parent for the kid is wrong.
 
Well, I subscribe to the parental doctrine of I-own-the-very-air-you-breath. So, in the case of a law that will punish the parent for the sins of the child, I have to answer, “It depends.”

Parental abuse comes in many forms. When you have children, it becomes your responsibility for at least 18 years to keep preparing them for adulthood. Fail to do that, and you’ve failed as a parent. Should there be a penalty for that failure? In many cases, the answer is yes, IMO.

As to being limited in the ways one can discipline their kids, that’s a copout. In today’s world we have the absolutely perfect way to discipline. Take away their toys. Sentencing a kid to their room as punishment is too often sentencing them to a stint in Disneyland. An XBox, their own TV, an IPad or desktop or laptop, their phone... in too many cases, that’s heaven on earth. “And they don’t even bother me!” may well be their thought process.

If your fifteen-year-old is violating curfew? That’s YOUR fault. Ditching? YOUR fault. Getting lousy grades? YOUR fault. If he’s bullying kids at school, that’s YOUR fault. If he’s stealing? That’s YOUR fault. If he’s fighting? That’s your fault, too. Unless a parent can show they have taken concrete steps to correct this behavior, they are culpable, in my opinion. And I have no problem with society punishing them in some way for their failure.

How does a parent prove they are not guilty? Body cams?
 
Non.parents can express their opinion about parenting but personally I don't give a **** what their opinion is.
 
Which by the way is shown to increase aggression and violent behavior in children.

Hahaha well collect the genes in my family because it did the exact opposite for all of us. I have multiple siblings and cousins were were all beat Without it we wouldn't be the people we are today. We still joke about it and laugh about it. I'm sure if a kid is already broken or they are actually abused it does have that effect but I've never seen normal beatings affect any kid (doesn't mean it doesn't happen). In my day and in my neighborhood we all got ass whoopins, in fact the worst kids were the ones that didn't accept for one case where a kid was actually abused. I'll be sticking with a mix or reward and punishment, groundings and taking things away, clear communication/education and when needed beating that ass. But to each their own.
 
I believe it depends on the amount and severity of said 'physical' punishment. There is nothing wrong with a smack on the ass and being sent to your room (without all the toys), IMO.

I was lucky my daughter was such a good kid. I can count on one hand how many times she was smacked on the butt. But she did get spanked.

Now if your talking beating a kid, then no, not acceptable.

My kid is awesome. We did... or i should say i did.... the time out method. At two or whatevrr age... she would get up from here time out chair and run thirty times per time out FOR MONTHS... every time i would get her... tell her why and sit her back down. It was exhausting but i finally broke her will... crushed her.. lol... joking... she realized just complying was better. She is a smart cookie. Time outs went quicker if she just chilled. She didnt get time outs if she listenedto rules and boundaries... she is a great teenager now. I was just telling her about her time outs last week. Lol.
 
:lamo

I love that!!

My wife's insistence....She seemed to think that referring to my children as "crotch fruit" was tacky.....:shrug:
 
Well, I subscribe to the parental doctrine of I-own-the-very-air-you-breath. So, in the case of a law that will punish the parent for the sins of the child, I have to answer, “It depends.”

Parental abuse comes in many forms. When you have children, it becomes your responsibility for at least 18 years to keep preparing them for adulthood. Fail to do that, and you’ve failed as a parent. Should there be a penalty for that failure? In many cases, the answer is yes, IMO.

As to being limited in the ways one can discipline their kids, that’s a copout. In today’s world we have the absolutely perfect way to discipline. Take away their toys. Sentencing a kid to their room as punishment is too often sentencing them to a stint in Disneyland. An XBox, their own TV, an IPad or desktop or laptop, their phone... in too many cases, that’s heaven on earth. “And they don’t even bother me!” may well be their thought process.

If your fifteen-year-old is violating curfew? That’s YOUR fault. Ditching? YOUR fault. Getting lousy grades? YOUR fault. If he’s bullying kids at school, that’s YOUR fault. If he’s stealing? That’s YOUR fault. If he’s fighting? That’s your fault, too. Unless a parent can show they have taken concrete steps to correct this behavior, they are culpable, in my opinion. And I have no problem with society punishing them in some way for their failure.

The fault in your so called "perfect" way is all to obvious. And that fault is the one thing i see lacking in the replies to this thread.
The fault is that you speak only of punishment. As if that is all that is needed to correct behaviour that is harmful is the message you send here.

Our society still clings to a very old fashioned way of dealing with bad behaviour by only punishing such behaviour. Yet it rarely fixes the problem it just drives it underground or creates resentment.

Do not get me wrong, i am not saying that punishment is not necessary. I am saying that it is not the only thing a parent or gaurdian should do. What is not mentioned here by you and others is the far more important aspect of making sure the child understands what the correct behaviour is. Because in many instance it is just that the child behaves badly because they do not understand that there is a better way to behave. We are not born with good behaviour it is taught to us. Parents are not there just to punish a child for bad behaviour, they are there to teach them what good behaviour is.
 
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Sorry but I don't believe much of this. There are children that simply don't care about punishments. I was one of those children so I know that to be a fact. My folks spanked me with paddles, belts, willow branches, their hands, wooden spoons etc etc. Got sent to my room with no toys to speak of left in the room. Had to write several hundred times that I wouldn't do X. One time when I stole something they even tied my hands behind my back while I sat in a corner. But NONE of it phased me in the slightest. They even tried the give and take method. (treat for doing good, punishment for doing bad). Still didn't phase me. I was grounded so much that I never even got to go to a school dance or hang out with friends until I was in 10th grade. If I wasn't at school I was at home. If I wasn't at school or home I was with my folks at their place of work. NOTHING that they did phased me. I simply didn't care. I was going to do what I wanted to do regardless of anything else.

So my parents certainly tried their best with me. Know what finally did cure me? Jail time. 3 months in an open cell with 20 cots in the cell sleeping next to gang members and criminals that did far worse than I EVER did.

Why should my parents be punished for the things that I did? They shouldn't. Now today parents are even more hobbled in how they can punish their children. Not to mention single parent households are higher today than they've ever been. Which makes disciplining children twice as hard at the very least. What good would it do to put a single mother in jail for 15 days? None. In fact it would probably make the situation even worse because the truly vindictive child (and there are a lot of them now a days) would misbehave just because they know that they can get their parents in trouble. Getting revenge for all the perceived "wrongs" that their parents did to them.

Funny. I went through something quite similar. All it taught me was the importance of not getting caught. I guess some people just give up easily.
 
They don’t have to prove they’re not guilty. The state has to prove they are.

You said kid does something it is the parents fault. First that makes it the kids fault but how does the parent prove that they tried to parent...

" Unless a parent can show they have taken concrete steps to correct this behavior, they are culpable, in my opinion. And I have no problem with society punishing them in some way for their failure."

you said that.
 
Hahaha well collect the genes in my family because it did the exact opposite for all of us. I have multiple siblings and cousins were were all beat Without it we wouldn't be the people we are today. We still joke about it and laugh about it. I'm sure if a kid is already broken or they are actually abused it does have that effect but I've never seen normal beatings affect any kid (doesn't mean it doesn't happen). In my day and in my neighborhood we all got ass whoopins, in fact the worst kids were the ones that didn't accept for one case where a kid was actually abused. I'll be sticking with a mix or reward and punishment, groundings and taking things away, clear communication/education and when needed beating that ass. But to each their own.

I only had one child, a son, and neither I nor his mother ever raised a hand to him. Not once. I decided not to. I figure spanking a child teaches a lesson about authority and humiliation my son wouldn't have to learn.
 
Parents in New York town could face jail, fine under new anti-bullying law]ABC News ? Breaking News, Latest News, Headlines & Videos



Personally I don't agree with this law. Now a days parents are extremely restricted in how they are able to discipline their children thanks to a CPS that has far more power than it should. For troublesome children simply sending them to their room or putting them in a corner is not enough. (and even that I've seen considered as abuse by some people) Additionally we're supposed to punish those that violate our laws, not those that are related to them simply because they're related to them. And yeah, parents are supposed to teach their children. That doesn't mean that children won't be influenced by their buddies in middle school/high school where most bullying happens.

What do you think?



There is no doubt bullying is a serious problem and the biggest cause of teen suicide. However I have always felt the law and uniforms and badges etc. should be the avenue of last resort.

Unfortunately I am having a dull mind day, ]when you get old sleep is often a premium and am having problems explaining this. However I could not ignore the invitation for opinion.

I have come to believe the police and courts should be a path of last resort; I am very big on 'restorative justice".

I came to know the real seriousness of the problem when a friend's son committed suicide as a result of being bullied...and no one knew.

Secrecy, I understand, is the most serious aspect, the victim becomes more and more ashamed. Add internet bullying and the suicide rate starts looking like war stats, you have to act.

I recall a huge publicity campaign when our then premier's son was bullied and, as usual, he kept it secret. They launched a campaign and then some programs, especially designed to help the victim come forward. Among other things created "pink shirt day" [n there there had been a suicide because the victim had been so badly beaten because of his pink shirt]. If you don't have it there, get it.

The program also seeks to "restore" the bully-er through peer based interaction. In some schools the teens themselves police bullying, and just read a really cute solution. The bully was made to carry the books of the bullied for two weeks. They became friends.

When you bring "THE LAW" into it you create more barriers between the bullied and bully, and often more shame on the bullied. And, since the estimate is 70% or more teen suicides involved bullying, I suggest we cannot afford not to explore different means, especially in this "wireless age"
 
I only had one child, a son, and neither I nor his mother ever raised a hand to him. Not once. I decided not to. I figure spanking a child teaches a lesson about authority and humiliation my son wouldn't have to learn.

Like I said to each their own. I'm certainly not preaching that what I do or my family does others must also. In regards to that, not my kid, not my business ;) But when people insist it's the wrong way or that it make bad kids I gladly step up, laugh and prove them wrong with the examples of me, my family and the majority of my friends.
 
A terrific cover. David Draiman was formally trained as a Hazen, a Cantor. Means he has something in common with Al Jolson of "The Jazz Singer" fame. I'm glad David doesn't wear blackface. :)
 
When I was 14 I cursed my mother at the dinner table. My father had never picked up his hands to me in anger, and that evening he gave me first shot. I was confident of being in good shape, some light boxing experience, and hit him with everything I had. Didn't phase him for a moment. Took me 4 weeks or so to recover from his one punch. I never cursed my mother again, nor even raised my voice to her. The example served for my younger brother. My mother was an American expert in instilling guilt with no sex. I never recovered from her blows. I think my wife took parenting lessons from her, since I never had to raise my hands against our own 4.

There can be moments when a bit of violence and humiliation can create a positive effect. But it can't be effective if it is habitual. Thankfully for my wife and myself, our daughters took care of humiliating the boys. The boys were never too happy with that course of behavior. I told them often, "there's no hope for us guys." :) Now they're both married and offer the same advice to their own sons. Men only think they are in charge.
 
Well, I subscribe to the parental doctrine of I-own-the-very-air-you-breath. So, in the case of a law that will punish the parent for the sins of the child, I have to answer, “It depends.”

Parental abuse comes in many forms. When you have children, it becomes your responsibility for at least 18 years to keep preparing them for adulthood. Fail to do that, and you’ve failed as a parent. Should there be a penalty for that failure? In many cases, the answer is yes, IMO.

As to being limited in the ways one can discipline their kids, that’s a copout. In today’s world we have the absolutely perfect way to discipline. Take away their toys. Sentencing a kid to their room as punishment is too often sentencing them to a stint in Disneyland. An XBox, their own TV, an IPad or desktop or laptop, their phone... in too many cases, that’s heaven on earth. “And they don’t even bother me!” may well be their thought process.

If your fifteen-year-old is violating curfew? That’s YOUR fault. Ditching? YOUR fault. Getting lousy grades? YOUR fault. If he’s bullying kids at school, that’s YOUR fault. If he’s stealing? That’s YOUR fault. If he’s fighting? That’s your fault, too. Unless a parent can show they have taken concrete steps to correct this behavior, they are culpable, in my opinion. And I have no problem with society punishing them in some way for their failure.

I subscribe to the "I brought you into these world, I can remove you from it." Philosophy of parenting. This includes inducing, the fear of death, beatings, humiliation in front of their friends, ect.. I agree, were its my fault if they don't comply, I disagree that I should be limited in my methods. Then again my children would never set foot in a public school except for competitions and a limited basis for some socializing amongst their peers. Most of their socializing is amongst other adults in a working environment, and in their education. The only real time they socialize with other children is the rare occasion they go school for competitions and socializing. Let me tell you this let them be children thing and play all day is crap. They learn better and are better behaved and just all around better people be learning to interact with adults all day. Interacting with children just teaches them to be children and stupid. By the way having children in the work place helps the adults too by lightening things up and relieving stress.

Personally I think the way most children are raised today is just stupid. School has just become a glorified babysitting service parents use to dump their children while they go do whatever it is they do. Its the ultimate in not doing ones duties as a parent. Pathetic.
 
Well, I subscribe to the parental doctrine of I-own-the-very-air-you-breath. So, in the case of a law that will punish the parent for the sins of the child, I have to answer, “It depends.”

Parental abuse comes in many forms. When you have children, it becomes your responsibility for at least 18 years to keep preparing them for adulthood. Fail to do that, and you’ve failed as a parent. Should there be a penalty for that failure? In many cases, the answer is yes, IMO.

As to being limited in the ways one can discipline their kids, that’s a copout. In today’s world we have the absolutely perfect way to discipline. Take away their toys. Sentencing a kid to their room as punishment is too often sentencing them to a stint in Disneyland. An XBox, their own TV, an IPad or desktop or laptop, their phone... in too many cases, that’s heaven on earth. “And they don’t even bother me!” may well be their thought process.

If your fifteen-year-old is violating curfew? That’s YOUR fault. Ditching? YOUR fault. Getting lousy grades? YOUR fault. If he’s bullying kids at school, that’s YOUR fault. If he’s stealing? That’s YOUR fault. If he’s fighting? That’s your fault, too. Unless a parent can show they have taken concrete steps to correct this behavior, they are culpable, in my opinion. And I have no problem with society punishing them in some way for their failure.


I certainly would not presume to offer others advice on how to raise children if you haven't raised any yourself; just sayin.
 
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