Mueller "going in for the kill"?

ttwtt78640 said:

OK, so are you saying that congress critters (professional liars?) are going to vote to convict (after voting to impeach) the POTUS (liar in chief?) for lying? I seriously doubt it - see Bill "I did not have sex with that woman" Clinton since that too was a easily proven lie to a yes or no question. To quote another famous liar "What difference, at this point, does it make?".

It may be interesting to see who wants Pence over Trump if anyone ever gets around to starting the impeachment process in the House.

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Clinton paid the price for obstruction, as will Trump. Two lies do not make it right. Any Righties out there care to defend the Liar in Chief without involking the names Clinton or Obama?

OpportunityCost said:

With that headline, I want to see the names of the Republicans saying what's in the damn headline.

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You know, I can respect the skepticism concerning anonymous leaks.

But from the very beginning, the vast majority of leaks from the mainstream reputable orgs have found to be accurate. From Manaforte, to Flynn, to Trump Jr. And Trump, the administration, his surrogates, and his kids, have had walk each lie back with every new revelation. Until now they finally got smart, and lawyered-up.

Quite frankly I see this whole thing as a triumph of the Fourth Estate, regardless of how it ends. Without the media we would have never known any of this stuff. The covert foreign agent Manaforte would be in the cabinet, the covert foreign agent Flynn would be director of the NSA, and God only knows what the Trump family cabal would be doing behind closed doors.

Dirt Sands said:

The only way he gets his pardon is if he quits. I had a thread called Will Trump Quit. He quits to get the pardon to stay out of prison. That's how I know. He's only president to market his brand. When he realizes that he will lose all his money and that will make him quit.

The scenarios that I described require only a simple majority.

Trump will quit.


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You make an interesting scenario here. But I have yet to see a case made for the GOP moving against him. I don't see it, if he remains popular amongst the GOP voters. I don't see it at all. You can see the way the (GOP politicos) cower from him now!

Obviously this is all conjecture, but until I see a good argument as to why the GOP politicos will turn against their base, I can't say I agree any more than to say it's an interesting intellectual exercise.

Chomsky said:

You make an interesting scenario here. But I have yet to see a case made for the GOP moving against him. I don't see it, if he remains popular amongst the GOP voters. I don't see it at all. You can see the way the (GOP politicos) cower from him now!

Obviously this is all conjecture, but until I see a good argument as to why the GOP politicos will turn against their base, I can't say I agree any more than to say it's an interesting intellectual exercise.

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I hear you. His base is rapidly sinking to be only in the Midwest. He's from New York but New York doesn't support him. Republicans in the southwest are going against him with immigration. He will screw up Texas with the flood. Texas likes Cruz anyway. Florida could easily flip. Of course there's no support on the West Coast or in the Northeast.

He's looking more and more like a paranoid Nixon. Businesses will abandon him. The presidential cabinets will be lobbied to turn against him. He will be the last one to know that it is over.

He will cut a deal to stay out of prison.


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Dirt Sands said:

I hear you. His base is rapidly sinking to be only in the Midwest. He's from New York but New York doesn't support him. Republicans in the southwest are going against him with immigration. He will screw up Texas with the flood. Texas likes Cruz anyway. Florida could easily flip. Of course there's no support on the West Coast or in the Northeast.

He's looking more and more like a paranoid Nixon. Businesses will abandon him. The presidential cabinets will be lobbied to turn against him. He will be the last one to know that it is over.

He will cut a deal to stay out of prison.


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If indeed there is that level of dirt, perhaps.

But Mueller has been working with the NY state's attorney's office. Who then will pardon Trump and his family at the state level?

Chomsky said:

If indeed there is that level of dirt, perhaps.

But Mueller has been working with the NY state's attorney's office. Who then will pardon Trump and his family at the state level?

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That's why I said that Trump would be pardoned for his political crimes, not his crimes related to his business. I believe he will be prosecuted for other crimes they were not committed in act politics.

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Chomsky said:

You know, I can respect the skepticism concerning anonymous leaks.

But from the very beginning, the vast majority of leaks from the mainstream reputable orgs have found to be accurate. From Manaforte, to Flynn, to Trump Jr. And Trump, the administration, his surrogates, and his kids, have had walk each lie back with every new revelation. Until now they finally got smart, and lawyered-up.

Quite frankly I see this whole thing as a triumph of the Fourth Estate, regardless of how it ends. Without the media we would have never known any of this stuff. The covert foreign agent Manaforte would be in the cabinet, the covert foreign agent Flynn would be director of the NSA, and God only knows what the Trump family cabal would be doing behind closed doors.

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Multiple leaks have been found to be inaccurate as well. CNN had to offer up numerous corrections after Comey's press conference, for instance.

Cabal? That's more than a little hyperbole. Did you call the Kennedy's a cabal?

Dirt Sands said:

That's why I said that Trump would be pardoned for his political crimes, not his crimes related to his business. I believe he will be prosecuted for other crimes they were not committed in act politics.

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So if this were to come to fruition, Trump's PR stunt come Presidency will bring down his-self, his business organization, and his family. Quite the price to par for narcissistic egomania!

OpportunityCost said:

Multiple leaks have been found to be inaccurate as well. CNN had to offer up numerous corrections after Comey's press conference, for instance.

Cabal? That's more than a little hyperbole. Did you call the Kennedy's a cabal?

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They're pretty damn close. At the least, they're dynastic royalty.

bearpoker said:

I thought a sitting president couldn't be indicted.

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Traditionally, no. However, the United States hasn't been a big fan of tradition for the past year. Technically speaking, there's nothing stopping an indictment of a sitting President.

bearpoker said:

Doesn't Mueller have to wait until Trump is out of office. Of course congress could impeach him, but I don't think that will happen any time soon, if ever.

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Chomsky said:

They're pretty damn close. At the least, they're dynastic royalty.

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Two Kennedy's in the WH versus how many Trump's? With JFK serving!

Don't get me wrong; I like this Don/Chuck/Nancy romance ...

NIMBY said:

Two Kennedy's in the WH versus how many Trump's? With JFK serving!

Don't get me wrong; I like this Don/Chuck/Nancy romance ...

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Well, one behind the President's desk, and one running the DOJ. That's some pretty heavy stuff, right there.

(and how terribly sad and ironic, they both were felled by an assassin's bullet )

Chomsky said:

Well, one behind the President's desk, and one running the DOJ. That's some pretty heavy stuff, right there. (and how terribly sad and ironic, they both were felled by an assassin's bullet )

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I was in 5th grade at Travis USAF Base for JFK, sent home early where our Parents were crying, glued to the black-and-white TV.

I was watching the California primary that RFK won when he was shot on live TV.

Still waiting on that '65-year' thing to find out what really happened in both ...

NIMBY said:

I was in 5th grade at Travis USAF Base for JFK, sent home early where our Parents were crying, glued to the black-and-white TV.

I was watching the California primary that RFK won when he was shot on live TV.

Still waiting on that '65-year' thing to find out what really happened in both ...

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Catholic Grammar school here, and we of course prayed and then had early dismissal. The nuns were crying and preparing to say the rosary.

It's funny how those defining moments of a generation are etched upon our minds as to where we were, and what we were doing at that moment. No different than watching the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show.

I also remember as a kid coming home to see my grandmother crying to old man Daley's death by heart attack. She and my grandfather had a trio of black and white pictures on one of their parlor walls, they being Daley, The Pope, and JFK. We called it their "holy trinity"! Daley was an inspiration to Chicago's European Southside immigrants and Democrats, JFK was an inspiration to Catholics and Democrats, and The Pope was the Pope but being a Catholic we knew he was a Democrat too just like us! :mrgreen:

Chomsky said:

Catholic Grammar school here, and we of course prayed and then had early dismissal. The nuns were crying and preparing to say the rosary.

It's funny how those defining moments of a generation are etched upon our minds as to where we were, and what we were doing at that moment. No different than watching the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show.

I also remember as a kid coming home to see my grandmother crying to old man Daley's death by heart attack. She and my grandfather had a trio of black and white pictures on one of their parlor walls, they being Daley, The Pope, and JFK. We called it their "holy trinity"! Daley was an inspiration to Chicago's European Southside immigrants and Democrats, JFK was an inspiration to Catholics and Democrats, and The Pope was the Pope but being a Catholic we knew he was a Democrat too just like us! :mrgreen:

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Great Post!!!!

+1 2 U

:thumbs:

ttwtt78640 said:

Not much (if any) more about what (if any) effect these meetings and (proposed?) dealings had on the electoral process. It seems that the focus is now on contact of any kind with team Trump and any Russian. The theory seems to be that since Trump wanted Hillary to lose and Russia wanted Hillary to lose that there absolutely must have been collusion. Nobody, that wanted Trump to lose, is even being considered for prosecution for *gasp* talking to, meeting with doing business with a foreign national before the POTUS election.

Yes, team Trump bit on an offer to get dirt on Hillary but that appears to be the extent of it - no dirt appears to have actually been found or tendered. Yes, team Trump met with Russians (and many other foreigners) in the course of planning real estate deals - no specific deal has been shown to be a "payoff" or in any way illegal.

So, the plan now seems to be that the reason for hundreds of investigators in over a year having found nothing that can be used to prosecute (impeach?) Trump is that justice must have been obstructed (yet no particulars of how appear to be offered). Bingo, let's just go with that obstruction as the real crime, even though any alleged "election rigging" collusion had to have been long before Trump was POTUS and longer before Comey was fired - so how did Trump obstruct anything before he won the the election that he allegedly colluded to win?

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I think you're missing the big picture.

It's not just the meetings, it's the timing of the meetings. Right around the time period hackers that were sponsored by the Kremlin were conducting cyber warfare to sabotage the Clinton campaign, the Trump campaign were talking to Russian nationals about intel they had Clinton less than a month before the DNC hacking. They continued to talk to Russian nationals throughout the campaign, and Michael Flynn is said to have supported an effort to obtain more stolen digital material from Clinton via a GOP research firm. Not only that, but Roger Stone appears to have had knowledge of an incoming dump of stolen emails from John Podesta days before Wikileaks published them.

I personally think it's the most obvious thing in the world that they were either aware of Russia's activities, or actively supported them. The timeline is far too convenient to argue mere coincidence at this point.

There is also an extensive web of conflicts of interest that Trump associates have with Russian and Central Asian/Easter European states that raise questions about their motives on foreign policy. Rosneft, Trump Tower Moscow, African Israel Investments, the Russia-Saudi nuclear deal, etc. The list could go on and on, but suffice to say it's important to understand these dealings, and why Trump and company have not been transparent about them -- that's why financial records are so important.

The fire (or fires really) in Trump-Russia were found long ago. Now it's just a matter of figuring out who started them and why.

Hawkeye10 said:

Great Post!!!!

+1 2 U

:thumbs:

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Well thank you, Hawkeye.

When I often mentioned I was a "cradle Democrat", you have no idea how deep and true that is. Southside machine Democrats, with votes running through are veins. I'm one of the few in my family not with the city or county.

Chomsky said:

Well thank you, Hawkeye.

When I often mentioned I was a "cradle Democrat", you have no idea how deep and true that is. Southside machine Democrats, with votes running through are veins. I'm one of the few in my family not with the city or county.

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You know how I have chided you for being non-transparent...

I like what I see Friend...

Hawkeye10 said:

You know how I have chided you for being non-transparent...

I like what I see Friend...

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But there's only so much transparency appropriate for the internet, unfortunately.

Chomsky said:

But there's only so much transparency appropriate for the internet, unfortunately.

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As often happens, you are correct Sir!

:2wave:

Thank God we have a special prosecutor outside of the FBI because the fascist FBI won't indict Trump. The FBI is full of nationalists fascist who agree with Trump.

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Arrests have been 'imminent' since March. SO far...nothing.

Meanwhile...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/14/politics/mueller-flynn-legal-work-ironbridge/index.html

Washington (CNN)Special Counsel Robert Mueller briefly did some legal work for a company that was part of a Middle East energy and arms project pushed by Michael Flynn, the former Trump national security adviser who Mueller is now investigating as part of the Russian meddling probe.
A spokesman for Mueller told CNN that Mueller did litigation work last year for the entity, called IronBridge, while Mueller was a partner at the WilmerHale law firm. He said the IronBridge work wasn't listed in Mueller's ethics disclosure form released last month by the Justice Department because it didn't meet the threshold for which disclosure is required.

SO...apparently...failure to disclose is something that could land Flynn in legal jeopardy...says the guy that...failed to disclose, but it was just an assident...not that big a deal...nothing to see here....

it just keeps getting funnier and funnier.

Chomsky said:

And do you doubt the vast majority reported to through this site and the mainstream media is true?

Have you seen everyone from Trump down, lawyering-up? The changing stories that come out of the White House as the media ferrets out the truth to Trump and his administration's lies?

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Lawuering up is not an indication of guilt. It os an indication that they feel a need for a legal experts involment to protect their rights. The way this investigation has expanded and muellers team limitless authority to dig, its not unreasonable for those being investigated to protect themselves. Whether or not any wrong doings took place muellers team appears determined to find something they can use to justify their investigation and preserve their reputations.

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trouble13 said:

Lawuering up is not an indication of guilt. It os an indication that they feel a need for a legal experts involment to protect their rights. The way this investigation has expanded and muellers team limitless authority to dig, its not unreasonable for those being investigated to protect themselves. Whether or not any wrong doings took place muellers team appears determined to find something they can use to justify their investigation and preserve their reputations.

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It's not a transparent government.


If you can't answer the citizens questions about your acting in their behalf, you should get the hell out and stop taking their money. They work for us, not the other way around.

ataraxia said:

It seems many of the folks under investigation have recently had sharply increased lawyer fees, to the point where outside funds may be needed for their continued defense.

And despite Donald Trump's insistence that he is not under investigation, there is apparently some rumor that Mueller is going to be pursuing the obstruction of justice charge soon against the president.

Mueller Is ?Going for the Kill? on Trump-Russia Investigation, Republicans Believe: Report

What was that about locking someone up again?
__________________
But before the never-Trumpers get too hopeful or excited about all this, I just have 3 words to help deflate your enthusiasm a little:
President Mike Pence.
:shock:

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The government knows they can and will destroy you financially if you don't tell the what they want to hear, especially when as a condition of your deal you can't divulge the details.