Cops steal more than Burglars...

Mr Person said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the recent nationialist/isolationist movement is in part due to an instinctive desire to not look at the dirt in our own backyard. Our lawmakers, our law enforcers, and are courts - tons of dirt. It's mentally reassuring, but maladaptive in response, to find an other to focus on.

We've got a lot of leaves to rake up, as it were....

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Good point.

I think we need to see the Trump era for what it is:

- It is not conservatism, even though it has some of those elements.
- It is not Republicanism (GOP), even though it has some of those elements.
- It *is* authoritarianism, through and through!

And if the Dems were smart, they'd couch it as autocratic authoritarianism, and run against that!

Tettsuo said:

Your stats rely on the police themselves to report these assaults. But, the police has shown themselves to not be reliable reporters of any incident when they are potentially under any threat of investigation.

Just look up any case where the police are being investigated. Their report and the facts of the incident NEVER jive completely. So much of their account is utter BS that one would think we the populace would no longer assume they're going to actually tell the truth.

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Oh OK so the whole thing is just made up..... Please show me more than a couple of isolated incidents where the police have lied about being assaulted. It's well over 100,000 cases with many of them going to the emergency room. Guess the Dr.s are faking medical reports?

Chomsky said:

Good point.

I think we need to see the Trump era for what it is:

- It is not conservatism, even though it has some of those elements.
- It is not Republicanism (GOP), even though it has some of those elements.
- It *is* authoritarianism, through and through!

And if the Dems were smart, they'd couch it as autocratic authoritarianism, and run against that!

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Guess I would have to disagree if the dems run on autocratic authoritarianism to attack Trump it's going to be more of the same for them. Losing races.
The dems better quickly move from resist to something that will help the American worker.

Common Sense 1 said:

Guess I would have to disagree if the dems run on autocratic authoritarianism to attack Trump it's going to be more of the same for them. Losing races.
The dems better quickly move from resist to something that will help the American worker.

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Well they firstly have to run on the middle-class economics message, which may be hard to take-back from Trump. I think they should run directly against him here, attacking his lies and hyperbole. I have no idea why they didn't attack the August jobs report. They never mentioned it.

But they should definitely include autocratic authoritarianism as one of their platform points. In earlier days they espoused freedom and liberty, and they need to get back to that.

ThoughtEx. said:

It get's people interacting and using those critical thinking skills doesn't it?

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Frankly you've bored the **** out of me so far...

You have one site, few real numbers and those you do have are skewed. Don't ask why, I leave **** out so as to help make people think for themselves. But 'kill rate' is someone's invention.

If you want to look at corruption/abuse look at "in custody" deaths.

Common Sense 1 said:

Guess I would have to disagree if the dems run on autocratic authoritarianism to attack Trump it's going to be more of the same for them. Losing races.
The dems better quickly move from resist to something that will help the American worker.

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They already do that, the problem is, the American worker doesn't like their education based solution. They don't want to take a class for a different job in a field that is hurting for people, they just want a job without any extra effort. And anytime the Dems offer them that education, they cry taxes and how to pay for it. It's like dude, if you don't have a job, you're not paying taxes why are you crying about your taxes, and then they say, if we charge businesses to many taxes they can't give us jobs. To which the response is, businesses don't pay the taxes they're supposed to now, they use loopholes and in some cases pay less than those they employ. To which the response to that is invariably, nuh uh, that's just liberal lies we have the highest taxes. Then the liberals show some proof. To which the response is invariably, you're a communist.

We are stuck in and "Us vs Them" mindset, in which it doesn't matter what facts are displayed, all that matters is that your side wins. And really, the only way I see getting past that, is letting someone like Trump run with the ball unfettered and watch him fail, over and over, to deliver on the promises he made. Hey you checked in on those Carrier jobs he "saved" any time recently

“Trump came in there to the factory last December and blew smoke up our asses. He wasn’t gonna save those jobs. And, if that’s the case, he would have saved us and Rexnord, a company around the corner from us that makes parts.
“We had a mix of Trump supporters and Clinton supporters at the factory, I’d say. The ones that really supported him are quiet right now. Some of them got let go yesterday, too.
“We talked about Trump on the job, after the election. You could always tell who the Trump supporters were because they never participated in the conversation. It was about even, blacks and whites, for Trump. Also, some of them wore the hats. Not anymore, though.

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https://www.newyorker.com/news/news...-off-at-the-carrier-plant-trump-said-hed-save

Bet they wish they had a viable option for some vocational training now don't they...

Fearandloathing said:

Frankly you've bored the **** out of me so far...

You have one site, few real numbers and those you do have are skewed. Don't ask why, I leave **** out so as to help make people think for themselves. But 'kill rate' is someone's invention.

If you want to look at corruption/abuse look at "in custody" deaths.

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this thread isn't even about that, you're complaining about the red herring I laid to keep the people that will never agree busy off on a tangent and not creating an echo chamber regarding the actual topic. You can say it's not a good idea to derail my own thread, but so far, I've gotten two people politically opposed to me MaggieD and American contributing in a positive way to the actual topic. And that is worth it, in my opinion.

Chomsky said:

Good point.

I think we need to see the Trump era for what it is:

- It is not conservatism, even though it has some of those elements.
- It is not Republicanism (GOP), even though it has some of those elements.
- It *is* authoritarianism, through and through!

And if the Dems were smart, they'd couch it as autocratic authoritarianism, and run against that!

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I think you hit the nail on the head.

Chomsky said:

- It *is* authoritarianism, through and through!

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How many of Trump's opponents have been assassinated? :roll: It's remarkable to see the people who are degenerating into partisan hackery.

Chomsky said:

Well they firstly have to run on the middle-class economics message, which may be hard to take-back from Trump. I think they should run directly against him here, attacking his lies and hyperbole. I have no idea why they didn't attack the August jobs report. They never mentioned it.

But they should definitely include autocratic authoritarianism as one of their platform points. In earlier days they espoused freedom and liberty, and they need to get back to that.

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I disagree with you.

I think if the democrats want to win.. they have to put someone out there that DOES NOT go after trump.

Two reasons:

1. The backlash effect. I see this with my parents. they both voted for Trump.. largely because they really really disliked Clinton.. and Trump "spoke it like it was"..

Now.. I can point out all the screw ups that Trump has had.. but they identify with their decision.. and even when confronted with facts.. they are more likely to "double down". and support trump.. simply because psychologically. an attack on trump is an attack on themselves.

That's the only way I can explain it.

The democrats are better off offering a an alternative to Trump with real credibility, and more common sense solutions that focus on their immediate middle class worries. Jobs, taxes, healthcare, security, medicare/social security, education.. middle class issues.

The second issue is that attacking trump is going into his wheelhouse. It plays to his strength. I think Clinton was smart not to attack trump very much. The problem was that most people were already decided about Clinton before she even started her bid for presidency.

ThoughtEx. said:

Oh and why do you think there is an extreme dislike for police officers? Is half the damn country a bunch of criminals tired of police constantly foiling their evil plans? No, use your head. This many people don't yell fire, when there isn't a fire. And it's not just one department in one state. We are seeing it across the board, it's systemic. Not a broadbrush.

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I wish illegal asset forfeiture was the worst thing that some cops did.

ThoughtEx. said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...urglars-did-last-year/?utm_term=.2b0b0d426767

I did not know this until today, was going through twitter when I saw this:

https://twitter.com/Moreno/status/906764058375766016

An officer taking the money out of a man's wallet, then citing him. That ain't right. It just isn't. Anyway I was reading through the responses and someone made the claim that the cops steal more than burglars. So I looked it up and found that they do indeed take more than burglars. They can do so just on a suspicion that a crime was committed, whether an arrest is made, a conviction happens, or even charges filed. They get to keep whatever they seize for their own use. Which has led many police departments to resort to ganglike behavior to line their own pockets. Already they kill 30x more people than private citizens do, now they are stealing more than burglars. At what point do we say enough is enough and reign in law enforcement?

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When are we going to not only pay them, but treat and train and hire them like they should be? The solution isn't simple and there are a lot of great cops out there. They take on the scum and work with people. But the public doesn't have their back. Their administration doesn't. Their union doesn't. Nobody does really. And it shows. It is the equivalent of being a garbage man...but at least people don't hate garbage men.

And just to be clear...my statement is that we can continually expect scummy behavior because it the job suffers from the broken window policy. We are going to see the job become less popular for good people to join. And the areas that have always had problems are never going to get any better because they can't.