A Beating in Berkeley

ocean515 · Sep 2, 2017

Antifa mayhem and malice in Martin Luther King Jr. Civic Center Park

Berkeley

As white supremacists go, Joey Gibson makes for a lousy one. For starters, he’s half Japanese. “I don’t feel like I’m Caucasian at all,” he says. Not to be a stickler for the rules, but this kind of talk could get you sent to Master Race remedial school.

And it gets worse. The founder of Patriot Prayer—a Vancouver, Wash.-based operation that sponsors rallies and marches promoting freedom and First Amendment rights along with all-purpose unity—also spews hippie-dippie rhetoric like “moderates have to come together” and “love and peace [are] the only way to heal this country.” Joey tends to sound less like an alt-right bully boy than a conflict-resolution facilitator or a Unitarian Sunday school teacher.

____

A great article that succinctly captures exactly what is going on with the left, and their antifa partners, and why anyone should care.

Question: Should people care about the incitement to riot leadership on the left is engaging in? Should we care about the darkness they are encouraging? Should the left be held responsible for the actions of their antifa partners?

ocean515 · Sep 2, 2017

ocean515 said:
A Beating in Berkeley

Antifa mayhem and malice in Martin Luther King Jr. Civic Center Park

Berkeley

As white supremacists go, Joey Gibson makes for a lousy one. For starters, he’s half Japanese. “I don’t feel like I’m Caucasian at all,” he says. Not to be a stickler for the rules, but this kind of talk could get you sent to Master Race remedial school.

And it gets worse. The founder of Patriot Prayer—a Vancouver, Wash.-based operation that sponsors rallies and marches promoting freedom and First Amendment rights along with all-purpose unity—also spews hippie-dippie rhetoric like “moderates have to come together” and “love and peace [are] the only way to heal this country.” Joey tends to sound less like an alt-right bully boy than a conflict-resolution facilitator or a Unitarian Sunday school teacher.

____

A great article that succinctly captures exactly what is going on with the left, and their antifa partners, and why anyone should care.

Question: Should people care about the incitement to riot leadership on the left is engaging in? Should we care about the darkness they are encouraging? Should the left be held responsible for the actions of their antifa partners?

I see that this article has been posted on another thread. No reason to repeat it.

The thread can be found at:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/general-political-discussion/295307-beating-berkeley.html

MaggieD · Sep 2, 2017

ocean515 said:
A Beating in Berkeley

Antifa mayhem and malice in Martin Luther King Jr. Civic Center Park

Berkeley

As white supremacists go, Joey Gibson makes for a lousy one. For starters, he’s half Japanese. “I don’t feel like I’m Caucasian at all,” he says. Not to be a stickler for the rules, but this kind of talk could get you sent to Master Race remedial school.

And it gets worse. The founder of Patriot Prayer—a Vancouver, Wash.-based operation that sponsors rallies and marches promoting freedom and First Amendment rights along with all-purpose unity—also spews hippie-dippie rhetoric like “moderates have to come together” and “love and peace [are] the only way to heal this country.” Joey tends to sound less like an alt-right bully boy than a conflict-resolution facilitator or a Unitarian Sunday school teacher.

____

A great article that succinctly captures exactly what is going on with the left, and their antifa partners, and why anyone should care.

Question: Should people care about the incitement to riot leadership on the left is engaging in? Should we care about the darkness they are encouraging? Should the left be held responsible for the actions of their antifa partners?

The people who create or try to create violence should be the ones held responsible. On the spot. Not the Right. Not the Left.

I would like to see any permit obtained specify some rules of engagement, if you will. Requirements like no weapons, no cans filled with cement, nomclubs, rocks, knives, guns, nothing, in the opinion of law enforcement on the scene, that could be perceived as a weapon. People who bring in water bottles should be required to drink out of them before getting Them beyond the established perimeter. No backpacks. No masks. Cars should be kept a certain distance away.

If I were queen of the United States, the entire scene would be under surveillance from many different angles for the sole purpose of identifying those whose conduct constitutes assault, or arson, looting or destruction of public and private property. And people so identified should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

And my opinion here is probably why I'll never BE QOTUS.

countryboy · Sep 2, 2017

MaggieD said:
The people who create or try to create violence should be the ones held responsible. On the spot. Not the Right. Not the Left.

I would like to see any permit obtained specify some rules of engagement, if you will. Requirements like no weapons, no cans filled with cement, nomclubs, rocks, knives, guns, nothing, in the opinion of law enforcement on the scene, that could be perceived as a weapon. People who bring in water bottles should be required to drink out of them before getting Them beyond the established perimeter. No backpacks. No masks. Cars should be kept a certain distance away.

If I were queen of the United States, the entire scene would be under surveillance from many different angles for the sole purpose of identifying those whose conduct constitutes assault, or arson, looting or destruction of public and private property. And people so identified should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

And my opinion here is probably why I'll never BE QOTUS.

So, city officials who purposefully place two potentially violent groups together, and tell police to stand down shouldn't be held responsible in any way? Just.....no. They should go to prison.

MaggieD · Sep 2, 2017

countryboy said:
So, city officials who purposefully place two potentially violent groups together, and tell police to stand down shouldn't be held responsible in any way? Just.....no. They should go to prison.

I'm not sure how that relates to my post, but I think it is disgraceful that law enforcement takes a stand-down approach to ANY violence. I think Charlottesville was a disgrace and the stand-down orders were politically motivated.

ocean515 · Sep 2, 2017

MaggieD said:
The people who create or try to create violence should be the ones held responsible. On the spot. Not the Right. Not the Left.

I would like to see any permit obtained specify some rules of engagement, if you will. Requirements like no weapons, no cans filled with cement, nomclubs, rocks, knives, guns, nothing, in the opinion of law enforcement on the scene, that could be perceived as a weapon. People who bring in water bottles should be required to drink out of them before getting Them beyond the established perimeter. No backpacks. No masks. Cars should be kept a certain distance away.

If I were queen of the United States, the entire scene would be under surveillance from many different angles for the sole purpose of identifying those whose conduct constitutes assault, or arson, looting or destruction of public and private property. And people so identified should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

And my opinion here is probably why I'll never BE QOTUS.

At this stage MaggieD, IMO, there is no way the left, and their antifa partners, will allow any non-approved (by them) rally to take place.

The left has launched a full scale Culture War, and they are using their partners in the MSM to wage it.

Consider the assistance Pelosi and Feinstein provided for antifa, as documented in the first person account in the OP. Consider what the LA Times reported when Gibson and his partner sought refuge among the police. A complete and total lie. And people on the left don't question a word the LA Times reports.

This movement, and the liberal leadership supporting and funding it, represent a grave danger to the United States. As Gibson stated in the final paragraph of the article, people can't sit idly by and let this happen.

countryboy · Sep 2, 2017

MaggieD said:
I'm not sure how that relates to my post, but I think it is disgraceful that law enforcement takes a stand-down approach to ANY violence. I think Charlottesville was a disgrace and the stand-down orders were politically motivated.

I took this to mean that only those physically involved in the violence should be held responsible.

Xena: Warrior Princess said:
The people who create or try to create violence should be the ones held responsible. On the spot.

And I don't disagree, they should be held responsible. Every person who commits violence should be IMMEDIATELY arrested and jailed. But I also think planners and facilitators, including government officials, should be held legally liable. I truly believe Terry McAuliffe should be investigated, and if found responsible in any way for the riots in Charllotesville, and the death of that woman, should be imprisoned. Of course, I realize it's a pipe dream. Legal responsibility is only for us little peons.

nota bene · Sep 2, 2017

From the linked article:

When Joey draws antifa out to show themselves, it’s not really conservatives he’s trying to reach. Conservatives already loathe antifa, he says. Rather, Joey’s interested in appealing to good, honest middle-of-the-road liberals. He likes them and believes there are plenty of them still out there. They’re just not terribly vocal at the moment when it comes to suppressing their own extremists, who seem hellbent on suppressing everyone else. As with some of the rancid elements of the right, when the moderates are quiet, extremist voices become amplified. “I’m also trying to help conservatives understand that they have a warped perception of liberals, because the good liberals are keeping quiet.” Joey says.

...Joey holds the door open for liberals in his freedom-loving unity movement, and some, including liberals of color, have joined. One African-American liberal I meet, Ryoga Vee, signed on after having an antifa member call him a Nazi and then try to set him on fire with a road flare when Vee attempted to attend Milo’s Berkeley speech out of curiosity. “I don’t care who you vote for,” Joey says, so long as you’re pro-freedom.

It's time for "good, honest middle-of-the-road liberals" to acknowledge the extremists among them too.

RetiredUSN · Sep 2, 2017

MaggieD said:
I'm not sure how that relates to my post, but I think it is disgraceful that law enforcement takes a stand-down approach to ANY violence. I think Charlottesville was a disgrace and the stand-down orders were politically motivated.

Governor Terry McAuliffe and mayor Mike Singer.

holbritter · Sep 2, 2017

MaggieD said:
The people who create or try to create violence should be the ones held responsible. On the spot. Not the Right. Not the Left.

I would like to see any permit obtained specify some rules of engagement, if you will. Requirements like no weapons, no cans filled with cement, nomclubs, rocks, knives, guns, nothing, in the opinion of law enforcement on the scene, that could be perceived as a weapon. People who bring in water bottles should be required to drink out of them before getting Them beyond the established perimeter. No backpacks. No masks. Cars should be kept a certain distance away.

If I were queen of the United States, the entire scene would be under surveillance from many different angles for the sole purpose of identifying those whose conduct constitutes assault, or arson, looting or destruction of public and private property. And people so identified should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

And my opinion here is probably why I'll never BE QOTUS.

Queen Maggie.....has a nice ring to it

RickJames3000 · Sep 2, 2017

Only Republicans and other conservatives, who control all three branches of our federal government (as well as the vast majority of local governments), could find the energy and time to bitch like whiny snowflakes about their voices being taken away.

You folks are an embarrassment to the nation, and to the world.

holbritter · Sep 2, 2017

ocean515 said:
At this stage MaggieD, IMO, there is no way the left, and their antifa partners, will allow any non-approved (by them) rally to take place.

The left has launched a full scale Culture War, and they are using their partners in the MSM to wage it.

Consider the assistance Pelosi and Feinstein provided for antifa, as documented in the first person account in the OP. Consider what the LA Times reported when Gibson and his partner sought refuge among the police. A complete and total lie. And people on the left don't question a word the LA Times reports.

This movement, and the liberal leadership supporting and funding it, represent a grave danger to the United States. As Gibson stated in the final paragraph of the article, people can't sit idly by and let this happen.

I read somewhere that Pelosi is now backing away from Antifa. Getting a little too hot in the kitchen.

holbritter · Sep 2, 2017

RickJames3000 said:
Only Republicans and other conservatives, who control all three branches of our federal government (as well as the vast majority of local governments), could find the energy and time to bitch like whiny snowflakes about their voices being taken away.

You folks are an embarrassment to the nation, and to the world.

Who the hell wouldn't bitch about their voices being taken away? Only lemmings.

Nap · Sep 2, 2017

MaggieD said:
The people who create or try to create violence should be the ones held responsible. On the spot. Not the Right. Not the Left.

I would like to see any permit obtained specify some rules of engagement, if you will. Requirements like no weapons, no cans filled with cement, nomclubs, rocks, knives, guns, nothing, in the opinion of law enforcement on the scene, that could be perceived as a weapon. People who bring in water bottles should be required to drink out of them before getting Them beyond the established perimeter. No backpacks. No masks. Cars should be kept a certain distance away.

If I were queen of the United States, the entire scene would be under surveillance from many different angles for the sole purpose of identifying those whose conduct constitutes assault, or arson, looting or destruction of public and private property. And people so identified should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

And my opinion here is probably why I'll never BE QOTUS.

My problem with disarming people (especially in today's political climate) is that should that become policy the liability for damage should also fall on those that disarm the public. For instance, if I am told that I am not allowed to carry a concealed weapon to an event then it should be the responsibility of those that require me to not carry to ensure my safety. The same should apply to "gun free zones", if I am attacked while at an establishment that says I am not allowed to defend myself it then becomes their duty to protect me and should they fail in that duty I should be able to sue them for damages.

ocean515 · Sep 2, 2017

holbritter said:
I read somewhere that Pelosi is now backing away from Antifa. Getting a little too hot in the kitchen.

Pelosi is an empty being, void of anything of value. Hot, cold, it doesn't matter, she sold her soul long ago.

MaggieD · Sep 2, 2017

Nap said:
My problem with disarming people (especially in today's political climate) is that should that become policy the liability for damage should also fall on those that disarm the public. For instance, if I am told that I am not allowed to carry a concealed weapon to an event then it should be the responsibility of those that require me to not carry to ensure my safety. The same should apply to "gun free zones", if I am attacked while at an establishment that says I am not allowed to defend myself it then becomes their duty to protect me and should they fail in that duty I should be able to sue them for damages.

I agree with you, but I don't think the courts do. If I'm not mistaken, except in the case of gross negligence... pretty tough legal standard... one is not responsible for the criminal behavior of another.

If I invite you into my home on condition that you leave your gun in the car, you can't sue me because someone breaks in while you're there and shoots you. The term"unforeseen circumstances" comes to mind. Not sure, though.

Nap · Sep 2, 2017

MaggieD said:
I agree with you, but I don't think the courts do. If I'm not mistaken, except in the case of gross negligence... pretty tough legal standard... one is not responsible for the criminal behavior of another.

If I invite you into my home on condition that you leave your gun in the car, you can't sue me because someone breaks in while you're there and shoots you. The term"unforeseen circumstances" comes to mind. Not sure, though.

Lol, considering the frequency of violence that occurs at any event that even remotely has a Right lean (particularly in California) I would say those can be hardly considered "unforseen consequences".

MaggieD · Sep 2, 2017

Nap said:
Lol, considering the frequency of violence that occurs at any event that even remotely has a Right lean (particularly in California) I would say those can be hardly considered "unforseen consequences".

I'd support holding a city responsible for not addressing violence at those events. It's quite obvious Charlottesville cops had stand down orders. I agree with you.

Nap · Sep 2, 2017

MaggieD said:
I'd support holding a city responsible for not addressing violence at those events. It's quite obvious Charlottesville cops had stand down orders. I agree with you.

This has been a pretty common occurrence at events like this, not just Charlottesville. Look back at video of the Berkeley riot, you see people waiting in line being assaulted by Antifa while police are all barricaded inside a building. Don't get me wrong, I don't blame the officers in this, most are likely just as pissed off having to follow orders and stand by as innocent people are getting pepper sprayed and beat with flagpoles.