• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Salt Lake City Nurse Arrested for Refusing to take blood

Just waiting for the Police Abuse Apologists to come racing in and say that the cops were 100% in the right here...
 
Bodhisattva said:
apsdt? I expected Excon to but he isn't? Hmmm...
Click to expand...

Only the most ardent of authoritarians could try to defend the cops in this case. Everything is so blatantly against them that it would take an extraordinary amount of willful ignorance to blind oneself to the facts and try to defend the officers in this case. Which is why you won't see many of the "State first" folk defending the police in this case.
 
Peter King said:
Please get your facts straight, the suspect was DEAD!!

The reserve deputy was the VICTIM! and not the suspect. He was an innocent victim of the police chase on another car. That car swerved into the deputy officer's side of the road and rammed his car.

So you entire story is based on fake news/false information.
Click to expand...

No.

My knowledge of the background was based on early news reports. Which are often faulty. But doesn't change the end result: this cop illegally arrested the nurse and should be prosecuted to the FULLEST extent of the law.

There is absolutely no excuse for illegally withdrawing blood from someone. And when called on it...this officer flipped out. Still stinks of a coverup. Why else would he demand blood from the victim...blood that would be inadmissible in court? The fact is...you can't justify his actions even if my understanding was wrong.




The crowd is not the sum of its parts.

I am a republican who did not vote for Trump (Or Hillary).
Click to expand...
 
blackjack50 said:
No.

My knowledge of the background was based on early news reports. Which are often faulty. But doesn't change the end result: this cop illegally arrested the nurse and should be prosecuted to the FULLEST extent of the law.

There is absolutely no excuse for illegally withdrawing blood from someone. And when called on it...this officer flipped out. Still stinks of a coverup. Why else would he demand blood from the victim...blood that would be inadmissible in court? The fact is...you can't justify his actions even if my understanding was wrong.
Click to expand...

You wrote that the DUI suspect was a reserve officer, he was clearly not so your story is not true/false, it may have been early version of the story but even then, warrants would still be needed. There was no protection of the officer that lay there in the burn ward. Even if he had taken blood, there was no legal value of that blood without the warrant.

And yes, you are right, the man did illegally arrest the nurse and I do hope it has serious consequences for him.

And you are right, there is no justification even if you got the understanding wrong and I have written here in every post. A police officer who wants to have blood evidence needs a warrant, no matter how some might claim that is not true.
 
There was really no reason for the officer to do what he did. As a retired LEO, I watch this and cringe. What this guy did has only made it worse for the good guys...which are the overwhelming majority of those in law enforcement.

There was no probable cause, there was no crime, there was no justification. The only thing he accomplished was to expose his agency to a large vicarious liability lawsuit, take a valuable medical professional away from the E.R. where she was undoubtedly needed to care for patients, and send anti-police assholes spinning off into a frenzied online hate fest.

This cop should lose his peace officer certification, lose his job, lose some money, and maybe lose some time.

So no police apologist here, I just realize that there literally are good cops (majority) and bad cops (minority).
 
Lerxst said:
There was really no reason for the officer to do what he did. As a retired LEO, I watch this and cringe. What this guy did has only made it worse for the good guys...which are the overwhelming majority of those in law enforcement.

There was no probable cause, there was no crime, there was no justification. The only thing he accomplished was to expose his agency to a large vicarious liability lawsuit, take a valuable medical professional away from the E.R. where she was undoubtedly needed to care for patients, and send anti-police assholes spinning off into a frenzied online hate fest.

This cop should lose his peace officer certification, lose his job, lose some money, and maybe lose some time.

So no police apologist here, I just realize that there literally are good cops (majority) and bad cops (minority).
Click to expand...

I have been an ICU RN for 35 years.....I can only imagine what would happen if one of us was hauled off like that for doing our job.

I think what he did was to put patient safety at risk.

Even if the officer was correct, he could have understood she was following her direction and waited for consent or a court order.
 
Lerxst said:
I just realize that there literally are good cops (majority) and bad cops (VAST minority).
Click to expand...

^^^ This

Bold was my addition.
 
year2late said:
I have been an ICU RN for 35 years.....I can only imagine what would happen if one of us was hauled off like that for doing our job.

I think what he did was to put patient safety at risk.

Even if the officer was correct, he could have understood she was following her direction and waited for consent or a court order.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, he did put other patients at some in increased degree of risk and he certainly could have handled it much differently. As more details come out it only seems to get worse. Apparently the officer was told he could disregard and the requesting jurisdictions would take another tact to get the blood. And it seems he even made statements on scene that he knew there was no probably cause. And the cherry on top, which should the police department even more worried, his Lieutenant told him to arrest the nurse. What was unclear to me in the beginning was what state law said about this issue. We now know it was not within the officer's authority to draw the blood at that time.

Two senior police officers either didn't know the law, or they disregarded it. You simply can't get these things wrong. Knowing the law and enforcing it correctly and in it's spirit is what you are paid to do. In Missouri we have what is called "the blue book." It is the Revised Statutes of the State of Missouri as they pertain to criminal offenses. It is very easy to navigate. Each sworn officer was issued one, either at the Academy or when they were assigned to an enforcement division. I carried one with me in my car for almost 15 years - and it was updated every year. Anything you needed to know about what constituted a crime and what didn't was in there. If we ever had any doubt about whether someone had violated a statute that's where we went. Of course after a while in service and officer begins to know the majority of the most common offenses by rote. That the officer conferred with his supervisor, and they BOTH got it wrong, is a bit disturbing.
 
Lerxst said:
There was really no reason for the officer to do what he did. As a retired LEO, I watch this and cringe. What this guy did has only made it worse for the good guys...which are the overwhelming majority of those in law enforcement.

There was no probable cause, there was no crime, there was no justification. The only thing he accomplished was to expose his agency to a large vicarious liability lawsuit, take a valuable medical professional away from the E.R. where she was undoubtedly needed to care for patients, and send anti-police assholes spinning off into a frenzied online hate fest.

This cop should lose his peace officer certification, lose his job, lose some money, and maybe lose some time.

So no police apologist here, I just realize that there literally are good cops (majority) and bad cops (minority).
Click to expand...

Depends who you ask...

I need to go dig up the cite, but there was a good ex-cop writing that in his experience, it was roughly 15% who do bad in any situation they can, 15% who are rigidly moral (the ones we need), and the other 70% just sort of go along with circumstances - and his focus is on department culture.

Now, obviously, he didn't and couldn't make a nationwide judgment, but if his statement is remotely accurate, it should be extremely worrying for a country that pats itself on the back so much for "freedoms". 15% alone may not be much, but if he's right that so many just kinda go with the flow, then that 15% can get away with a lot more bad acts.



Edit: here's the article

https://www.vox.com/2015/5/28/8661977/race-police-officer

Yeah, it's ****ing vox. I know. But the officer penned the article, so nobody ought dismiss it unless they are claiming that Vox fabricated this article. (In which case they'd be sued to the tits).

Late edit: and he does explicitly say that the bad 15% exercise outsize influence.






Bodhisattva said:
^^^ This

Bold was my addition.
Click to expand...


See above re: "vast" addition to "minority".
 
Last edited:
ABsoluyelu uncalled for by the police, and subsequent videos shows numerous officers who need to find a suspension or a loss of their badge regarding this.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom