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Harrisonburg Man Pleads Guilty to Submitting Fraudulent Voter Registration Forms

Unitedwestand13 said:
This is a case of voter fraud.

But this case does give any proof that there is widespread, coordinated conspiracy to commit voter fraud.

It is an individual acting alone.
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No

Voter Registration Fraud. No evidence that the people voted using the fake registrations he made up at this time
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
No

Voter Registration Fraud. No evidence that the people voted using the fake registrations he made up at this time
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That is an important clarification, but what other purpose would there be? What does a party gain... significantly, I'm sure there's some minor benefit... from having bloated rolls?

If intended to used for voting, it wouldn't have to be immediate. Could be used in the future.
 
SocialD said:
we keep getting told by the dem party and leftists that voting fraud is so rare it virtually never happens.

Ran into this database heritage compiled of almost 1100 cases. these are all sourced verified and prosecuted cases.
http://thf-legal.s3.amazonaws.com/V...35.931911628.1502389742-1539405418.1502389742
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No, we say that voter fraud is rare. Not that it never happens. I skimmed the first part of your link. Those 1100 cases took place from the year 2000 to 2013. That is 1100 prosecutions over hundreds of millions of votes cast in elections in every state over 13 years. As I said, it's rare. Thanks for the link.
 
radcen said:
That is an important clarification, but what other purpose would there be? What does a party gain... significantly, I'm sure there's some minor benefit... from having bloated rolls?

If intended to used for voting, it wouldn't have to be immediate. Could be used in the future.
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Typically the voter registration fraud cases in the past were done because the workers were getting paid per registration or had a quota to fill

I do not know in this case however
 
SocialD said:
we keep getting told by the dem party and leftists that voting fraud is so rare it virtually never happens.

Ran into this database heritage compiled of almost 1100 cases. these are all sourced verified and prosecuted cases.
http://thf-legal.s3.amazonaws.com/V...35.931911628.1502389742-1539405418.1502389742
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Those are 1100 verified case of fraud, including registration fraud, ballot fraud, and voting fraud on a state, local and federal level

From the time it was collected how many votes would have been cast in the US at federal state and local levels?

So a fraud level of 0.00012% give or take (I went with a number of 900 000 0000 votes being cast during that time frame at all levels looked at.

That said, I would tighten up Absentee Voter standards. It is the most likely source of fraudulent votes that could actually have an effect on an election
Chief of Staff to Florida Rep. Joe Garcia (D–26), Jeffrey Garcia,
resigned and pleaded guilty to orchestrating a plot involving the
submission of hundreds of fraudulent absentee-ballot requests
during the primary in 2012. Garcia was sentenced to 90 days in
prison and 18 months’ probation. He was ordered to spend the first
three months of probation under house arrest.
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from the link above

In person somebody might be able to vote 2 to 3 times. Absentee ballots are only limiting by what you could get away with. This guy was trying for hundreds
 
bearpoker said:
No, we say that voter fraud is rare. Not that it never happens. I skimmed the first part of your link. Those 1100 cases took place from the year 2000 to 2013. That is 1100 prosecutions over hundreds of millions of votes cast in elections in every state over 13 years. As I said, it's rare. Thanks for the link.
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the dates on the cases are anywhere from 2001 to 2016.
the point is if you don't look for it you don't find it. we hardly look for it so we hardly find it. I agree with Radcen that I don't think its millions, but I honestly do believe its a lot more than 1100. I would imagine there are thousands of fraud cases in every national election. If yo account for the different types of fraud.
THat link defines them as
IMPERSONATION FRAUD AT THE POLLS: FALSE REGISTRATIONS: DUPLICATE VOTING: FRAUDULENT USE OF ABSENTEE BALLOTS: BUYING VOTES: ILLEGAL “ASSISTANCE” AT THE POLLS: INELIGIBLE VOTING: ALTERING THE VOTE COUNT: and BALLOT PETITION FRAUD:
I have personally experienced the first one, impersonation fraud at the polls. I went to vote and for some reason my name , along with the same address, was listed twice. someone had already voted once in my name. I offered to show them my ID to prove it was me and they said naw we don't need it and just gave me a ballot to vote. I am completely sure that if they just had to check some kind of id when voting we would find that there is a whole lot more fraud going on that you might think.
 
radcen said:
Voter fraud?
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No, voter registration fraud. Important difference.
SocialD said:
we keep getting told by the dem party and leftists that voting fraud is so rare it virtually never happens.

Ran into this database heritage compiled of almost 1100 cases. these are all sourced verified and prosecuted cases.
http://thf-legal.s3.amazonaws.com/V...35.931911628.1502389742-1539405418.1502389742
Click to expand...
Allow me to copy and paste myself the last time someone presented this:

Slyfox696 said:
First of all, this source you cite includes "false registrations", which doesn't mean voter fraud. Furthermore, of the first several cases of "false registration" listed, none of them has suggested the person voted under their false registration. In fact, several of them were to run for an elected position, not to vote. So your "1000 cases" already has a HUGE problem with integrity.

Second of all, I see at least one of the cases goes all the way back to 1991. That's over 25 years ago. In that time, in JUST presidential elections alone, the Republican and Democratic candidates have received over 775,000,000 votes (this doesn't include third party votes, which would push the total over 800,000,000 on Ross Perot's votes alone). This means, according to my math, if we accept as true your 1071 cases (which isn't true for reasons already mentioned) you're talking about .000138 percent of votes being fraudulent.

So yes, imagine what an in-depth investigation would reveal...MAYBE it'd get up to .000139%. Who knows? :roll:
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bearpoker said:
No, we say that voter fraud is rare. Not that it never happens. I skimmed the first part of your link. Those 1100 cases took place from the year 2000 to 2013. That is 1100 prosecutions over hundreds of millions of votes cast in elections in every state over 13 years. As I said, it's rare. Thanks for the link.
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Actually, if you look more closely, it goes all the way back to 1991.
SocialD said:
the dates on the cases are anywhere from 2001 to 2016.
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False. The dates go all the way back to at least 1991.
 
SocialD said:
the dates on the cases are anywhere from 2001 to 2016.
the point is if you don't look for it you don't find it. we hardly look for it so we hardly find it. I agree with Radcen that I don't think its millions, but I honestly do believe its a lot more than 1100. I would imagine there are thousands of fraud cases in every national election. If yo account for the different types of fraud.
THat link defines them as
IMPERSONATION FRAUD AT THE POLLS: FALSE REGISTRATIONS: DUPLICATE VOTING: FRAUDULENT USE OF ABSENTEE BALLOTS: BUYING VOTES: ILLEGAL “ASSISTANCE” AT THE POLLS: INELIGIBLE VOTING: ALTERING THE VOTE COUNT: and BALLOT PETITION FRAUD:
I have personally experienced the first one, impersonation fraud at the polls. I went to vote and for some reason my name , along with the same address, was listed twice. someone had already voted once in my name. I offered to show them my ID to prove it was me and they said naw we don't need it and just gave me a ballot to vote. I am completely sure that if they just had to check some kind of id when voting we would find that there is a whole lot more fraud going on that you might think.
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There are something like 200 million voters in the US. They vote in all sorts of elections every year. Conservatively, if we take 200,000,000 voter over 10 years (the math is simpler that way) you get 2,000,000,000 votes. Even if you assume that only 1% of the voter fraud was caught and there were actually 110,000 cases, that's still a tiny percentage of 2 billion votes.
 
radcen said:
Voter fraud?
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Finally some proof ab out the Democrats trying to steal the election. I hope this becomes a big story.
 
bearpoker said:
There are something like 200 million voters in the US. They vote in all sorts of elections every year. Conservatively, if we take 200,000,000 voter over 10 years (the math is simpler that way) you get 2,000,000,000 votes. Even if you assume that only 1% of the voter fraud was caught and there were actually 110,000 cases, that's still a tiny percentage of 2 billion votes.
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For one voter participation is only just over 50% and that's in presidential elections... on the midterms is far less.. overall its probably ~45% so more like 900m instead of 2bil. and I don't assume 1% of voter fraud is caught. I believe its far less than 1% is caught. but even if we went with your numbers, that's way too many and action should be taken.
 
radcen said:
I do not believe that it is anywhere near the millions claimed by Trump, but I also do not believe that it is virtually non-existent, either.
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Except it is virtually non existent, because some of the convictions are from as far back as 1982, some are for gubernatorial primaries or other primaries and as said, over 30 years, you know how many votes were cast in 30 years? If you only take the presidential votes in the past 33 years (1984/88/92/96/2000/04/08/12/16) there are 988,889,552 votes cast, that is almost a billion. And this fraud result is based on more than presidential votes, some are from mayoral primaries, etc. etc. etc. which would make the number of votes go far far beyond one billion, but let us be conservative and say it is 1.5 billion votes. And that is a conservative number, than the number of proven voter issues is 0.000073%. And as said, that is a conservative number because if we add the number of votes for senate, congress and local elections to it the number of votes cast must be even double that 3 billion (and if you add primary votes to it, the number will even be much higher).

So it is virtually none existent.
 
SocialD said:
we keep getting told by the dem party and leftists that voting fraud is so rare it virtually never happens.

Ran into this database heritage compiled of almost 1100 cases. these are all sourced verified and prosecuted cases.
http://thf-legal.s3.amazonaws.com/V...35.931911628.1502389742-1539405418.1502389742
Click to expand...

THE SCHOOL BOARD?! Democracy is over! Seriously, though, you have like 10+ elections and 50 states, that's .2 cases an election in each state. Some for school board. Many for absentee voting. And they caught people trying to register improperly or vote twice. This makes you concerned? You're concerned that .2 people will send in an absentee ballot for your local school board in 2018 which couldn't be stopped by voter ID anyway? Cool idea.
 
Peter King said:
Except it is virtually non existent, because some of the convictions are from as far back as 1982, some are for gubernatorial primaries or other primaries and as said, over 30 years, you know how many votes were cast in 30 years? If you only take the presidential votes in the past 33 years (1984/88/92/96/2000/04/08/12/16) there are 988,889,552 votes cast, that is almost a billion. And this fraud result is based on more than presidential votes, some are from mayoral primaries, etc. etc. etc. which would make the number of votes go far far beyond one billion, but let us be conservative and say it is 1.5 billion votes. And that is a conservative number, than the number of proven voter issues is 0.000073%. And as said, that is a conservative number because if we add the number of votes for senate, congress and local elections to it the number of votes cast must be even double that 3 billion (and if you add primary votes to it, the number will even be much higher).

So it is virtually none existent.
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The fatal flaw in your argument is in presuming that all cases of fraud have been caught, prosecuted, and convicted.
 
radcen said:
The fatal flaw in your argument is in presuming that all cases of fraud have been caught, prosecuted, and convicted.
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But my estimation of 1.5 billion votes was very very very conservative and where done in primaries for local elections and when looking at the number of votes cast, even 11,000 cases in 35 years would still mean that it is virtually of no influence on the national election results in the United States.

And of these cases I could see a lot of false registration claims and not evidence that those false registrations were used and influenced elections.
 
Mustachio said:
THE SCHOOL BOARD?! Democracy is over! Seriously, though, you have like 10+ elections and 50 states, that's .2 cases an election in each state. Some for school board. Many for absentee voting. And they caught people trying to register improperly or vote twice. This makes you concerned? You're concerned that .2 people will send in an absentee ballot for your local school board in 2018 which couldn't be stopped by voter ID anyway? Cool idea.
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As I keep saying to people. if they actually checked for it, checked ID and have more mechanisms in place to check for voting/voter fraud there would certainly be ALOT more cases of it. I wouldn't doubt at all that there are thousands of cases in every state every election.
 
SocialD said:
As I keep saying to people. if they actually checked for it, checked ID and have more mechanisms in place to check for voting/voter fraud there would certainly be ALOT more cases of it. I wouldn't doubt at all that there are thousands of cases in every state every election.
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An incredibly thorough review of the 2008 election was done because of the Franken/Coleman recount. The state, attorneys and lobbyists like the Heritage Foundation which you linked to all looked for fraudulent votes. There were 2.

I totally get why it sounds good to people to have voter ID. But if you really want to cheat - vote twice, vote unregistered, etc. - you're going to do it, right? Nothing will deter you? Then you cheat with absentee ballots. Send in multiple absentee ballots with your name, your neighbor's name, etc. So voter ID then does nothing. What's your solution for that?
 
Mustachio said:
An incredibly thorough review of the 2008 election was done because of the Franken/Coleman recount. The state, attorneys and lobbyists like the Heritage Foundation which you linked to all looked for fraudulent votes. There were 2.

I totally get why it sounds good to people to have voter ID. But if you really want to cheat - vote twice, vote unregistered, etc. - you're going to do it, right? Nothing will deter you? Then you cheat with absentee ballots. Send in multiple absentee ballots with your name, your neighbor's name, etc. So voter ID then does nothing. What's your solution for that?
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For one the Coleman/Franken race was investigated by Frankens lawyers and then canvased by a judge panel. Now Minnesota doesn't require ID to vote, so misrepresenting who you are wouldn't be something they could catch. so that one is out.
Secondly, I would refer you to this article http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/y...te-in-race-won-by-312-ballots/article/2504163
A conservative watchdog group did their own contesting and alleged that 1099 people who were ineligible to vote as felons voted in that election. per the article 177 of them, at the time of the article in 2012 had been convicted of illegally voting in that election and some were still being looked in to.

As for your solution comments... they don't make any sense. you say its a good idea to have voter ID then say if you really want to vote unregistered or multiple times... you will... well not if they required id.
 
SocialD said:
For one the Coleman/Franken race was investigated by Frankens lawyers and then canvased by a judge panel. Now Minnesota doesn't require ID to vote, so misrepresenting who you are wouldn't be something they could catch. so that one is out.
Secondly, I would refer you to this article York: When 1,099 felons vote in race won by 312 ballots
A conservative watchdog group did their own contesting and alleged that 1099 people who were ineligible to vote as felons voted in that election. per the article 177 of them, at the time of the article in 2012 had been convicted of illegally voting in that election and some were still being looked in to.

As for your solution comments... they don't make any sense. you say its a good idea to have voter ID then say if you really want to vote unregistered or multiple times... you will... well not if they required id.
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You're making points I already responded to. The watchdog group had every name investigated. Two were legitimate causes of fraud. We have to prove that we are who we say we are and live where we say we live when we register to vote in Minnesota. Franken would have won by much more but he stopped challenging ballots when he had mathematically won. He could have won by 1,000+ votes but it didn't matter and Coleman gave in. EDIT: you're conflating two challenges to the election. One was for election fraud, the other for felons voting. Unless a separate group had an updated challenge with more (some) evidence.

You didn't answer my question, though. The Heritage Foundation website you linked to had tons of cases where people voted multiple times via absentee ballot. How does voter ID stop that and if you're determined to cheat, wouldn't that be the way to do it instead of the much riskier method of voting in multiple precincts or fraudulently registering? I only ask questions twice, after that it's clear that whoever I'm talking to has no answer. I said it SOUNDS like a good idea (voter ID). In theory. Why isn't it? Because you have no answer to my question.
 
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