Are police really heros?

Cops make 55k per year, median. That's for your standard "beat cop", or in a patrol car. That's BEFORE overtime, of which, there is almost an unlimited supply. They have full benefits, great insurance, a pension, etc.


I used to "tent" (fumigate) houses in FL. FAR more dangerous than ANY cops job, in ANY state or town. And I did it for no benefits, no pension, 450 per week. And not a soul called me a hero.

That answer your question?

Crovax said:

You have claimed that your opinion of how widespread police violence is based on media reports so yes that makes those videos anecdotal to the whole picture of police violence.

Click to expand...

We agree to disagree. Videos of police abuse are not anecdotal. Your chosen position means that all photographic evidence is anecdotal. Methinks you don't really understand the meaning of the word.

some are true heroes, others (the majority) are very good at doing their job, some are just plodding through not doing a good or bad job, some are really unsuitable as officers because they are poorly trained/racist/violent/stupid and then there are evil police officers who plant evidence, destroy lives and kill people out of malice.

I was a law enforcement officer for 18 years of my life. I do not think I was a hero, I don't personally know any cops who think of themselves as heroes. I also spent quite a bit of my life in the military as an infantryman an MP. Doing a dangerous job doesn't make you a hero. Doing something that others find to be heroic, maybe that makes you a hero. Maybe not. Interceding in a domestic violence situation and taking a bad guy out of the home is one of the most dangerous incidents a cop can roll on, but it's also very common and most people don't really think about it being a heroic act. To the victim in the case however, well some of them think you are their hero, at least for a day or two. Kind of like beauty being in the eye of the beholder or something.

I do not like the way the term is used so freely. It cheapens it. I've been in many dangerous situations throughout my career in both the military and law enforcement. It never occurred to me that I was doing anything heroic. I'm sure to some of the civilian populace it might have seemed "heroic" to them. I don't know, it's just not a thing for me I guess. I felt good about the job I did and I have no regrets, I felt privileged to be entrusted with a great deal of authority and always tried to make sure I didn't abuse that.

So I guess I agree that just because you wear the uniform of a law enforcement officer doesn't mean you are a hero. But if you think the job isn't dangerous, I would challenge you to try the job on sometime. The internet, social media, 24 hour news cycle, smart phones....all have changed the way the public views law enforcement. For the worse. And usually the people talking the most **** on cops are the same people that would piss their pants the first day on the street.

KevinKohler said:

Cops make 55k per year, median. That's for your standard "beat cop", or in a patrol car. That's BEFORE overtime, of which, there is almost an unlimited supply. They have full benefits, great insurance, a pension, etc.


I used to "tent" (fumigate) houses in FL. FAR more dangerous than ANY cops job, in ANY state or town. And I did it for no benefits, no pension, 450 per week. And not a soul called me a hero.

That answer your question?

Click to expand...

That average salary does not apply to most flyover states. In Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma...an average street cop pulls $30-40K a year with average benefits and mediocre retirement plan, which is why many continue working once they retire. A Captain or Major might make $55K base salary, Chief or Sheriff make $60-70K. And if you think your job is more dangerous than any cops job anywhere, you've obviously never been a cop in the middle of shootout in a dark alley or served a search warrant a large active meth lab. When you tent a house you are in control of the situation, if you die because are overcome by chemicals then that's your fault, you didn't prepare properly. It's not like fleas or cockroaches are going to eat through your respirator and suck your brain out. Come on man, lol.

Gaius46 said:

Heights in buildings doesn't bother me. I've been to the top of the Empire State Building and the old World Trade Center several times. And my roof isn't all that high maybe 25 feet or so. It's something about ladders or maybe looking straight down. I've always figured it was something with the expansive view from a plane. Even though it might be a couple miles down looking out the window just doesn't seem all that scary - actually I never get tired of it. Looking down that 25' feet from a ladder. That's scary.

We humans are certainly a weird lot.

Click to expand...

When I was younger like 16 to 20 heights really used to scare me. No they don't bother me at all. My last HAHO jump was at 23000 feet. Absolutely love it. Repel of a 5 story building. No problem.
I don't even really think about it at all anymore.

braindrain said:

When I was younger like 16 to 20 heights really used to scare me. No they don't bother me at all. My last HAHO jump was at 23000 feet. Absolutely love it. Repel of a 5 story building. No problem.
I don't even really think about it at all anymore.

Click to expand...

Why anyone would jump out of a perfectly good airplane is beyond me

Gaius46 said:

Why anyone would jump out of a perfectly good airplane is beyond me

Click to expand...

See? That, I would do. :lol:

Lerxst said:

I was a law enforcement officer for 18 years of my life. I do not think I was a hero, I don't personally know any cops who think of themselves as heroes. I also spent quite a bit of my life in the military as an infantryman an MP. Doing a dangerous job doesn't make you a hero. Doing something that others find to be heroic, maybe that makes you a hero. Maybe not. Interceding in a domestic violence situation and taking a bad guy out of the home is one of the most dangerous incidents a cop can roll on, but it's also very common and most people don't really think about it being a heroic act. To the victim in the case however, well some of them think you are their hero, at least for a day or two. Kind of like beauty being in the eye of the beholder or something.

I do not like the way the term is used so freely. It cheapens it. I've been in many dangerous situations throughout my career in both the military and law enforcement. It never occurred to me that I was doing anything heroic. I'm sure to some of the civilian populace it might have seemed "heroic" to them. I don't know, it's just not a thing for me I guess. I felt good about the job I did and I have no regrets, I felt privileged to be entrusted with a great deal of authority and always tried to make sure I didn't abuse that.

So I guess I agree that just because you wear the uniform of a law enforcement officer doesn't mean you are a hero. But if you think the job isn't dangerous, I would challenge you to try the job on sometime. The internet, social media, 24 hour news cycle, smart phones....all have changed the way the public views law enforcement. For the worse. And usually the people talking the most **** on cops are the same people that would piss their pants the first day on the street.

Click to expand...

You've been here longer than me, but I don't remember crossing paths before. Anyway, two very good posts! Very well stated.

The part I highlight in red is one of the reasons I dislike how the term has come to be used, too. If everybody is a hero, then essentially nobody is a hero.

radcen said:

You've been here longer than me, but I don't remember crossing paths before. Anyway, two very good posts! Very well stated.

The part I highlight in red is one of the reasons I dislike how the term has come to be used, too. If everybody is a hero, then essentially nobody is a hero.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the kind words. I was inactive for a couple of years and just recently returned (yesterday actually). Nice to meet you!

Lerxst said:

That average salary does not apply to most flyover states. In Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma...an average street cop pulls $30-40K a year with average benefits and mediocre retirement plan, which is why many continue working once they retire. A Captain or Major might make $55K base salary, Chief or Sheriff make $60-70K. And if you think your job is more dangerous than any cops job anywhere, you've obviously never been a cop in the middle of shootout in a dark alley or served a search warrant a large active meth lab. When you tent a house you are in control of the situation, if you die because are overcome by chemicals then that's your fault, you didn't prepare properly. It's not like fleas or cockroaches are going to eat through your respirator and suck your brain out. Come on man, lol.

Click to expand...

Our local PD - SCPD, Suffolk County NY, has some of the highest paid officers in country, with OT many cops pull better than 100,000/year. My brother retired from the NYPD as a Sgt and was making something like 130K. Of course this is one of the highest cost of living areas in the country.

Gaius46 said:

Our local PD - SCPD, Suffolk County NY, has some of the highest paid officers in country, with OT many cops pull better than 100,000/year. My brother retired from the NYPD as a Sgt and was making something like 130K. Of course this is one of the highest cost of living areas in the country.

Click to expand...

Cops in the large east and west metropolitan agencies do make good bank, have great pensions, and a very strong union. Across the rest of the country however it's just not like that. Maybe in the largest cities, but the majority of smaller agencies (which make up the bulk of agencies) simply can't afford those kinds of plans. Which leads to hiring poor candidates - sometimes they are the only ones who will take the job.

Lerxst said:

Cops in the large east and west metropolitan agencies do make good bank, have great pensions, and a very strong union. Across the rest of the country however it's just not like that. Maybe in the largest cities, but the majority of smaller agencies (which make up the bulk of agencies) simply can't afford those kinds of plans. Which leads to hiring poor candidates - sometimes they are the only ones who will take the job.

Click to expand...

The SCPD has had some problems with one off bad apple cops but by and large I just don't hear much about corruption or excessive use of force by the SCPD. And most of the officers I've meet are both professional and seem to be well educated. I'd guess the money has a lot to do with that.

Last night someone had to go to the hospital in Rotterdam and the quickest way through the Heinenoordtunnel. It was closed due to building works this weekend but when his wive had gone into labor, his quickest route to the hospital was through that tunnel but it was closed down. But he knew (he read it somewhere) that the police was able to go through in case of emergency, and he thought impending birth was an emergency or else he would have to go another route which would have added 30 minutes minimally to his trip to the hospital. The police was happy to help and with one police van in front of him and another behind him, they rushed him through the tunnel and with lights and sounds blaring they escorted him to the hospital. A few hours later his son was born.

So you see the police often is the hero and while we should never ignore the crimes and horrendous behavior of the police, we should most certainly not ignore how many of them do protect and serve our societies.

Peter King said:

Last night someone had to go to the hospital in Rotterdam and the quickest way through the Heinenoordtunnel. It was closed due to building works this weekend but when his wive had gone into labor, his quickest route to the hospital was through that tunnel but it was closed down. But he knew (he read it somewhere) that the police was able to go through in case of emergency, and he thought impending birth was an emergency or else he would have to go another route which would have added 30 minutes minimally to his trip to the hospital. The police was happy to help and with one police van in front of him and another behind him, they rushed him through the tunnel and with lights and sounds blaring they escorted him to the hospital. A few hours later his son was born.

So you see the police often is the hero and while we should never ignore the crimes and horrendous behavior of the police, we should most certainly not ignore how many of them do protect and serve our societies.

Click to expand...

That's really cool, but it's not heroic.

Lerxst said:

That average salary does not apply to most flyover states. In Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma...an average street cop pulls $30-40K a year with average benefits and mediocre retirement plan, which is why many continue working once they retire. A Captain or Major might make $55K base salary, Chief or Sheriff make $60-70K. And if you think your job is more dangerous than any cops job anywhere, you've obviously never been a cop in the middle of shootout in a dark alley or served a search warrant a large active meth lab. When you tent a house you are in control of the situation, if you die because are overcome by chemicals then that's your fault, you didn't prepare properly. It's not like fleas or cockroaches are going to eat through your respirator and suck your brain out. Come on man, lol.

Click to expand...

LOL.

To tent a house, you have to cover the entire thing in an airtight, form hugging tarp. Which means balancing that tarp (around 150-200lbs, depending on size) on your back, and humping it up a ladder 1, 2, and sometimes 3 stories, to the roof. Then you have to walk all over that wooden roof (that has termites), unfold, and drape those tarps. You have to get right on the edge of the roof to drop it off past the gutters, then set up the ladders to roll tight and clamp those multiple tarps together in an airtight seal, as you go down the ladder. Then you have to wrap it tight around the phone and power lines. And no, you don't cut the power to those lines. And yeah, I've seen people get bit by them, hard, to fall off the ladder. Then, of course, there's rain. And once this place gets tapped, you gotta get the SCBA on and set up the fans and gas. Inside a 150 degree house, in the FL heat.

More fumigators die per capita every year than police.

How about Alaskan crabbers? Any of those guys heroes?

KevinKohler said:

LOL.

To tent a house, you have to cover the entire thing in an airtight, form hugging tarp. Which means balancing that tarp (around 150-200lbs, depending on size) on your back, and humping it up a ladder 1, 2, and sometimes 3 stories, to the roof. Then you have to walk all over that wooden roof (that has termites), unfold, and drape those tarps. You have to get right on the edge of the roof to drop it off past the gutters, then set up the ladders to roll tight and clamp those multiple tarps together in an airtight seal, as you go down the ladder. Then you have to wrap it tight around the phone and power lines. And no, you don't cut the power to those lines. And yeah, I've seen people get bit by them, hard, to fall off the ladder. Then, of course, there's rain. And once this place gets tapped, you gotta get the SCBA on and set up the fans and gas. Inside a 150 degree house, in the FL heat.

More fumigators die per capita every year than police.

How about Alaskan crabbers? Any of those guys heroes?

Click to expand...

A job can be tough. A job can be dangerous. As long as it's within the normal job description, it's not heroic. It's just part of the job.

Lerxst said:

Cops in the large east and west metropolitan agencies do make good bank, have great pensions, and a very strong union. Across the rest of the country however it's just not like that. Maybe in the largest cities, but the majority of smaller agencies (which make up the bulk of agencies) simply can't afford those kinds of plans. Which leads to hiring poor candidates - sometimes they are the only ones who will take the job.

Click to expand...

I used to live in a very small town (<1000 population) in California. Even though it was in between San Francisco and Sacramento, it was still out in the boonies. Our PD had a very high turnover rate, and it was due to pay. We simply couldn't afford to pay much at all. Most cops would come in right out of academy, stay for 6-12 months to get some experience, then leave for a bigger town that paid better.

radcen said:

A job can be tough. A job can be dangerous. As long as it's within the normal job description, it's not heroic. It's just part of the job.

Click to expand...

Exactly.

Cops aren't heroes because they're cops. Most just clock in, do the job, then go home. Which isn't nothing. I've no doubt their job can be hellish, and scary. But that doesn't make them heroes. Good people, yes.

A hero is someone who hits the end of their rope, and Kees climbing. Goes far and beyond the job description. Fumigators aren't heroes, crab fishermen aren't, and neither are cops.

That said, there ARE a lot more cops who ARE heroes, then there are fumigators and fishermen who are. And that should say a lot about the quality of character that most officers have. Definitely deserving of respect.

KevinKohler said:

LOL.

To tent a house, you have to cover the entire thing in an airtight, form hugging tarp. Which means balancing that tarp (around 150-200lbs, depending on size) on your back, and humping it up a ladder 1, 2, and sometimes 3 stories, to the roof. Then you have to walk all over that wooden roof (that has termites), unfold, and drape those tarps. You have to get right on the edge of the roof to drop it off past the gutters, then set up the ladders to roll tight and clamp those multiple tarps together in an airtight seal, as you go down the ladder. Then you have to wrap it tight around the phone and power lines. And no, you don't cut the power to those lines. And yeah, I've seen people get bit by them, hard, to fall off the ladder. Then, of course, there's rain. And once this place gets tapped, you gotta get the SCBA on and set up the fans and gas. Inside a 150 degree house, in the FL heat.

More fumigators die per capita every year than police.

How about Alaskan crabbers? Any of those guys heroes?

Click to expand...

Living in a historic Fl town filled with wooden "cracker" houses, I see that all the time. No way, not me. I bet turnover is high. Sometimes I find those clamps on the road, I often use them for welding clamps.

Slingshot Bob said:

Living in a historic Fl town filled with wooden "cracker" houses, I see that all the time. No way, not me. I bet turnover is high. Sometimes I find those clamps on the road, I often use them for welding clamps.

Click to expand...

They're strong little buggers. Squeeze one of those clamps open and closed about 200 times, and you'll know what a day in the life is like.

radcen said:

That's really cool, but it's not heroic.

Click to expand...

Maybe not for you and me but for the guy with a wive about to have a baby, these officers are the heroes of the day.

KevinKohler said:

LOL.

To tent a house, you have to cover the entire thing in an airtight, form hugging tarp. Which means balancing that tarp (around 150-200lbs, depending on size) on your back, and humping it up a ladder 1, 2, and sometimes 3 stories, to the roof. Then you have to walk all over that wooden roof (that has termites), unfold, and drape those tarps. You have to get right on the edge of the roof to drop it off past the gutters, then set up the ladders to roll tight and clamp those multiple tarps together in an airtight seal, as you go down the ladder. Then you have to wrap it tight around the phone and power lines. And no, you don't cut the power to those lines. And yeah, I've seen people get bit by them, hard, to fall off the ladder. Then, of course, there's rain. And once this place gets tapped, you gotta get the SCBA on and set up the fans and gas. Inside a 150 degree house, in the FL heat.

More fumigators die per capita every year than police.

How about Alaskan crabbers? Any of those guys heroes?

Click to expand...

I do believe we all agree that doing a dangerous job does not make you a hero. Putting your life in jeopardy to assist or save another who is in imminent danger is a good place to start for determining what constitutes a heroic act.

radcen said:

I used to live in a very small town (<1000 population) in California. Even though it was in between San Francisco and Sacramento, it was still out in the boonies. Our PD had a very high turnover rate, and it was due to pay. We simply couldn't afford to pay much at all. Most cops would come in right out of academy, stay for 6-12 months to get some experience, then leave for a bigger town that paid better.

Click to expand...

That's what happens around here. Small agencies are dubbed "OJT" because the overwhelming majority of cops who go there are rookies looking to get some experience to make themselves a better candidate for larger agency with better pay. There are also screw up and old timers who work for those agencies either because they have no where else to go or they are looking for job that is less stressful/dangerous to continue earning during their retirement years. My personal thoughts are those two types really don't need to be cops anymore.