Inmates plea for help, as searing heat bakes prison

I have conflicting thoughts on this...

1) I am not receptive to the "They should have thought of that before they did the crime." aspect. That's not license to treat people inhumanely.

2) Yes, heat (and cold) are serious and extra care needs to be taken.

3) But, even with extra care being necessary, I am old enough to remember when I went to school that had no AC on very hot days and we not only survived just fine, we were still expected to do our work and get our assignments done. What did people do before AC? They dealt with it and looked forward to the heat wave breaking, that's what they did. I'd be ok with not forcing inmates to do unnecessary work, but I'm sorry, I'm just not feeling much sympathy beyond that.

Inmates plea for help, as searing heat bakes prison

Inmates plea for help, as searing heat bakes prison | FOX2now.com

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radcen said:

I have conflicting thoughts on this...

1) I am not receptive to the "They should have thought of that before they did the crime." aspect. That's not license to treat people inhumanely.

2) Yes, heat (and cold) are serious and extra care needs to be taken.

3) But, even with extra care being necessary, I am old enough to remember when I went to school that had no AC on very hot days and we not only survived just fine, we were still expected to do our work and get our assignments done. What did people do before AC? They dealt with it and looked forward to the heat wave breaking, that's what they did. I'd be ok with not forcing inmates to do unnecessary work, but I'm sorry, I'm just not feeling much sympathy beyond that.

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Like my grade school without AC, put some portable units in a couple rooms and rotate so each person gets an hour or so to cool off. Or take them out to the yard and hose them down. Like you, I don't feel much sympathy but I do feel some, especially for the guards who are the ones who have to deal with a bunch of overheated cranky guys.

Get them some cheap box fans and thats it, but we will probably install big expensive AC units , we wouldn't want murders, rapists, dealers, to be uncomfortable would we.


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I wonder why female inmates get a/c but not males? Sounds like the males could make a case for discrimination based on gender.

I have mixed feelings about it. While I'm not usually too sympathetic to inmates, the article mentions those who have not been convicted. Innocent until proven guilty. As someone who doesn't handle heat very well, I can't imagine the heat down there. It's bad enough up here in Canada in the summer. However, there are a lot of law abiding people on the outside who don't have a/c because they can't afford it.

The sentence is to be locked up, not locked up and cooked or frozen to death, and certainly not to be beaten up and / or raped, which is also pretty common. There's a real prevailing "that's what they get" attitude, but I'm not a great fan of vigilante justice in practice, and we're all one convincing false accusation away from risking prison ourselves. I'm not arguing that it should be like staying at a luxury hotel, but it should be safe and humane.

The question might be what exactly is the temperature in the facility and what is too hot. It would be helpful to know that before any hoops are jumped through.

As described...this is a holding jail for people that cant afford bail and are awaiting trial. Seems to me the process starts with getting the low level offenders out of there, the low risk/non violent offenders awaiting trial out of there, and those convicted and waiting for their bed in the state prisons out of there.

radcen said:

I have conflicting thoughts on this...

1) I am not receptive to the "They should have thought of that before they did the crime." aspect. That's not license to treat people inhumanely.

2) Yes, heat (and cold) are serious and extra care needs to be taken.

3) But, even with extra care being necessary, I am old enough to remember when I went to school that had no AC on very hot days and we not only survived just fine, we were still expected to do our work and get our assignments done. What did people do before AC? They dealt with it and looked forward to the heat wave breaking, that's what they did. I'd be ok with not forcing inmates to do unnecessary work, but I'm sorry, I'm just not feeling much sympathy beyond that.

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Elementary school in southern California, no AC.

High school in Florida, no AC.

Boot Camp, basic AO school, first 4 years in the Marines, no AC

July in 29 Palms, August in Yuma, no AC.

My current house in Southern California, no AC.



Cruel and unusual?

VanceMack said:

The question might be what exactly is the temperature in the facility and what is too hot. It would be helpful to know that before any hoops are jumped through.

As described...this is a holding jail for people that cant afford bail and are awaiting trial. Seems to me the process starts with getting the low level offenders out of there, the low risk/non violent offenders awaiting trial out of there, and those convicted and waiting for their bed in the state prisons out of there.

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You mentioned the important part--most if not all the inmates have been convicted of NOTHING. They can't make bail, for likely some petty crime, and in this case there is a violation of the Eighth Amendment.

Helix said:

The sentence is to be locked up, not locked up and cooked or frozen to death, and certainly not to be beaten up and / or raped, which is also pretty common. There's a real prevailing "that's what they get" attitude, but I'm not a great fan of vigilante justice in practice, and we're all one convincing false accusation away from risking prison ourselves. I'm not arguing that it should be like staying at a luxury hotel, but it should be safe and humane.

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It has often been said that one can best judge a civilization by how it treats its prisoners.

radcen said:

I have conflicting thoughts on this...

1) I am not receptive to the "They should have thought of that before they did the crime." aspect. That's not license to treat people inhumanely.

2) Yes, heat (and cold) are serious and extra care needs to be taken.

3) But, even with extra care being necessary, I am old enough to remember when I went to school that had no AC on very hot days and we not only survived just fine, we were still expected to do our work and get our assignments done. What did people do before AC? They dealt with it and looked forward to the heat wave breaking, that's what they did. I'd be ok with not forcing inmates to do unnecessary work, but I'm sorry, I'm just not feeling much sympathy beyond that.

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Why we got rid of chain gangs is beyond me... put 'em to work.

Mr Person said:

It has often been said that one can best judge a civilization by how it treats its prisoners.

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So if we just killed them all and had no prisoners we would be viewed as excellent?

Helix said:

The sentence is to be locked up, not locked up and cooked or frozen to death, and certainly not to be beaten up and / or raped, which is also pretty common. There's a real prevailing "that's what they get" attitude, but I'm not a great fan of vigilante justice in practice, and we're all one convincing false accusation away from risking prison ourselves. I'm not arguing that it should be like staying at a luxury hotel, but it should be safe and humane.

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Mr Person said:

It has often been said that one can best judge a civilization by how it treats its prisoners.

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Bodhisattva said:

So if we just killed them all and had no prisoners we would be viewed as excellent?

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I'm not sure that's the best response starting with "so if...".


On your hypothetical, I'd say we'd be better if we blew their brains out with a double-barreled shotgun instead of a more painful death, but I'd also say that that is not saying much. The quote I paraphrased addresses vindictive horrors inflicted in the name of giving the person what someone thinks they deserve, not about the overall acceptability of a specific punishment that wasn't mentioned.

Mr Person said:

I'm not sure that's the best response starting with "so if...".


On your hypothetical, I'd say we'd be better if we blew their brains out with a double-barreled shotgun instead of a more painful death, but I'd also say that that is not saying much. The quote I paraphrased addresses vindictive horrors inflicted in the name of giving the person what someone thinks they deserve, not about the overall acceptability of a specific punishment that wasn't mentioned.

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so if I am reading you right my suggestion wasn't any good?

Bodhisattva said:

so if I am reading you right my suggestion wasn't any good?

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Not very, but there you have it.

I actually do have some problems with this.

1. This is a county jail, not a prison. Many of the people there have not been convicted of a crime, they're just in holding cells waiting for trial or to post bail or something.

2. The female prisoners are getting access to air conditioning but the male prisoners and guards are not. That's sexist and discriminatory. If they can't provide AC for everyone, then no one should get it. Or they should rotate people through the air conditioned areas so everyone can get at least some air conditioning.

Ultimately though, it's not that big a deal. As long as they're making sure the people there are kept healthy, I don't think it's a requirement that they're kept 100% comfortable.

Bodhisattva said:

So if we just killed them all and had no prisoners we would be viewed as excellent?

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It would be a strong deterrent. :lol:

molten_dragon said:

I actually do have some problems with this.

1. This is a county jail, not a prison. Many of the people there have not been convicted of a crime, they're just in holding cells waiting for trial or to post bail or something.

2. The female prisoners are getting access to air conditioning but the male prisoners and guards are not. That's sexist and discriminatory. If they can't provide AC for everyone, then no one should get it. Or they should rotate people through the air conditioned areas so everyone can get at least some air conditioning.

Ultimately though, it's not that big a deal. As long as they're making sure the people there are kept healthy, I don't think it's a requirement that they're kept 100% comfortable.

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I agree with most of your post. But I suspect it WOULD be a big deal if it were your son or daughter in the jailhouse.

holbritter said:

It would be a strong deterrent. :lol:

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You figure?

Mr Person said:

Not very, but there you have it.

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So what you're saying, is that it's a little good!

radcen said:

I have conflicting thoughts on this...

1) I am not receptive to the "They should have thought of that before they did the crime." aspect. That's not license to treat people inhumanely.

2) Yes, heat (and cold) are serious and extra care needs to be taken.

3) But, even with extra care being necessary, I am old enough to remember when I went to school that had no AC on very hot days and we not only survived just fine, we were still expected to do our work and get our assignments done. What did people do before AC? They dealt with it and looked forward to the heat wave breaking, that's what they did. I'd be ok with not forcing inmates to do unnecessary work, but I'm sorry, I'm just not feeling much sympathy beyond that.

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Not everyone in that building is as healthy as you were in your youth. Some of those people might be 70, or might have heart disease, or whatever else.

Most buildings aren't made to dissipate heat well enough for the climate, for one of two reasons: either they were built well after the invention of AC and therefore there was no need to build them to cope without it, or they were built back when the climate was a lot cooler than it is now.

The UK is actually a great example of this, as the summer climate change has been really dramatic. In the summer these days, it's usually way hotter inside than it is outside, and it can absolutely kill you. Why? Because back when most of these houses were built, it never got hotter than 70 degrees in the summer, so they were only built to keep heat IN. Now, it sometimes gets over 90 with high humidity, and a building that keeps heat in and also has no AC is life-threatening to vulnerable people. People die here every year because of that. People have already died this year.

Indoor heat can actually be a lot worse than outdoor heat if the building isn't made to cope with it. Around here, if you want to cool off, you go outside.

Triple digits in a brick building, and they can't even leave if they need to? That must be absolutely horrible. And yes, people are absolutely at risk in those conditions, and it's not humane. Pervasive mold is also a really serious risk, especially around food -- and there are some kinds that can kill you.

And beyond all that... I thought the correction system was supposed to... ya know... correct people so they can re-enter society. Torture is not a form of correction as far as I'm aware, and I doubt it does anything to make them feel more at home living and working productively around the supposedly "civilized" people who did this to them.

Thoreau72 said:

I agree with most of your post. But I suspect it WOULD be a big deal if it were your son or daughter in the jailhouse.

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If my daughter was stupid enough to go to prison I would probably never talk to her again and figure she had it coming...

Mr Person said:

It has often been said that one can best judge a civilization by how it treats its prisoners.

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Often? I think not. How it treats its children or its elderly perhaps, but prisoners?

I volunteered to work in 120-140 degree heat down in the engine rooms for twenty years.

What the ****....................... I was a criminal in my younger days anyways and still half assed crazy when I enlisted.

Scrabaholic said:

I wonder why female inmates get a/c but not males? Sounds like the males could make a case for discrimination based on gender.

I have mixed feelings about it. While I'm not usually too sympathetic to inmates, the article mentions those who have not been convicted. Innocent until proven guilty. As someone who doesn't handle heat very well, I can't imagine the heat down there. It's bad enough up here in Canada in the summer. However, there are a lot of law abiding people on the outside who don't have a/c because they can't afford it.

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Because they have male privilege so they don't need AC.

radcen said:

I have conflicting thoughts on this...

1) I am not receptive to the "They should have thought of that before they did the crime." aspect. That's not license to treat people inhumanely.

2) Yes, heat (and cold) are serious and extra care needs to be taken.

3) But, even with extra care being necessary, I am old enough to remember when I went to school that had no AC on very hot days and we not only survived just fine, we were still expected to do our work and get our assignments done. What did people do before AC? They dealt with it and looked forward to the heat wave breaking, that's what they did. I'd be ok with not forcing inmates to do unnecessary work, but I'm sorry, I'm just not feeling much sympathy beyond that.

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Funny...I've been in greater heat, while wearing body armor, without AC on my deployments and I didn't even commit a crime.