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Think twice before asking the police to help

Mr Person

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A yoga and meditation teacher living in Minneapolis was fatally shot by police Saturday night after she called 911 to report a possible assault in the alley behind her home . . . The call for help came in just before 11:30 p.m. Saturday, according to a news release from the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, the state agency investigating the shooting. Two Minneapolis Police Department officers went to an alley near her home in the Fulton neighborhood, on the city’s southwest side. “At one point an officer fired their weapon, fatally striking a woman,” the statement said. But the BCA offered few other details on what precipitated the shooting and, it said, neither of the responding officers had turned on their body cameras before the shooting. The squad car camera did not capture the incident, either. . .

. . .
Three people “with knowledge of the incident” told the Star Tribune that the responding officers pulled into the alley behind Damond’s home. The woman, wearing pajamas, approached the driver’s side door and was talking to the driver, reported the Star Tribune. The officer in the passenger seat shot Damond through the driver’s side door, the three people told the newspaper.
When asked about the Star Tribune report, Jill Oliveira, spokeswoman for the BCA, said only that investigators are still working to “learn more about the events that transpired.” “We will provide details as the investigation continues. However, at this point the BCA is in the very early stages of the investigation.” In a video posted to the Women’s March Minnesota Facebook page, Zach Damond, Justine Damond’s stepson-to-be, said: “Basically, my mom’s dead because a police officer shot her for reasons I don’t know. I demand answers. If anybody can help, just call the police and demand answers. I’m so done with all this violence.”

He added: “America sucks. These cops need to get trained differently. I need to move out of here.”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...apolis-police-officer/?utm_term=.3cbcdc230337




So a woman calls the police to report a possible assault outside her home, starts talking to the officers next to his car, and one of them decides to shoot her down. And of course, somehow neither the squad car cam nor any bodycam was turn on.

How wrong could our training possibly get?
 
There's obviously facts missing from this case. She was just standing there talking to the officers and one of them shoots her? Makes no sense.
 
There's obviously facts missing from this case. She was just standing there talking to the officers and one of them shoots her? Makes no sense.

Having three cameras doesn't do much good if the people whom they are supposed to record don't turn them on, eh?
 
Having three cameras doesn't do much good if the people whom they are supposed to record don't turn them on, eh?

No, it doesn't do any good to not have the cameras on. That's pretty obvious.
 
Anyway, I have to wonder what more to the story one could expect. More to the story, that would justify the cops in shooting her?



We can say it makes no sense for them to shoot her.

But do you know what else makes no sense? It makes no sense that the person who called the cops for help and went to the cops to talk about the reason she called would do anything to threaten their lives.



Without cameras running, they now get to plan out their story. We'll probably end up hearing that they thought she was trying to reach for their gun, or something.
 
Anyway, I have to wonder what more to the story one could expect. More to the story, that would justify the cops in shooting her?



We can say it makes no sense for them to shoot her.

But do you know what else makes no sense? It makes no sense that the person who called the cops for help and went to the cops to talk about the reason she called would do anything to threaten their lives.



Without cameras running, they now get to plan out their story. We'll probably end up hearing that they thought she was trying to reach for their gun, or something.

There were witnesses, though. The events were described by someone who saw what happened.
 
Some questions....

What happened with the assault that she reported? Where is the perpetrator? What happened to him/her? Did they catch him/her before this incident happened or after? Why did she come to the police car instead of them coming to her? If an assault was happening outside, why would she BE outside? Was she the one being assaulted? If she was, why would the officers kill her instead of the one assaulting her? Did she do anything to the police officers while in their car? Was she on any medication or drugs or alcohol that might have made her act out aggressively toward the officers? Was the officer goofing off with his weapon and accidentally shot her? Did the officer know her personally, dislike her and found this a perfect opportunity to get rid of her?

How are we to know what happened? We don't. Too many questions that we don't have the answers too. To assume that the officers are in the wrong OR in the right is stupid when you know nothing.
 
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Some questions....

What happened with the assault that she reported? Where is the perpetrator? What happened to him/her? Did they catch him/her before this incident happened or after? Why did she come to the police car instead of them coming to her? If an assault was happening outside, why would she BE outside? Was she the one being assaulted? If she was, why would the officers kill her instead of the one assaulting her? Did she do anything to the police officers while in their car? Was she on any medication or drugs or alcohol that might have made her act out aggressively toward the officers? Was the officer goofing off with his weapon and accidentally shot her? Did the officer know her personally, dislike her and found this a perfect opportunity to get rid of her?

How are we to know what happened? We don't. Too many questions that we don't have the answers too. To assume that the officers are in the wrong OR in the right is stupid when you know nothing.

You already posted that in the other thread:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/brea...-after-calling-911-report-assault-fami-8.html

I suppose I'll also have to leave my response here, too.


You started out saying we need to give the cops the benefit of the doubt, now you're practically accusing her by "just asking questions," as it were. That's a benefit of doubt well above and beyond the call of duty.

She called the cops. She had no weapon. They kept their cams off. They shot her dead as she was talking to them.

The question is emphatically NOT "gee, what scenario can we possibly make up that might make it all her fault?" The question is, "can you tell us, right now, immediately, why the **** you killed someone who was talking to you about a crime they had reported?"






If only a non-cop criminal defendant was given this benefit of the doubt....

If a cop says he found drugs on someone, nobody stops and asks whether we should give that someone the benefit of the doubt. Nobody asks rhetorically whether we know for a fact that the cop didn't plant it on them. Nobody wonders whether the cop illegally searched the someone.

No, people just say "well, he had drugs, so he's guilty. Believe the cop."

Why the hell should a cop who killed someone get this super-special benefit of the doubt that nobody else gets?
 
There were witnesses, though. The events were described by someone who saw what happened.

It certainly does sound that way:


"Three people “with knowledge of the incident” told the Star Tribune that the responding officers pulled into the alley behind Damond’s home. The woman, wearing pajamas, approached the driver’s side door and was talking to the driver, reported the Star Tribune. The officer in the passenger seat shot Damond through the driver’s side door, the three people told the newspaper."




But, I am told, I must give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that the person who requested their assistance did something to deserve being killed.
 
Anyway, I have to wonder what more to the story one could expect. More to the story, that would justify the cops in shooting her?



We can say it makes no sense for them to shoot her.

But do you know what else makes no sense? It makes no sense that the person who called the cops for help and went to the cops to talk about the reason she called would do anything to threaten their lives.



Without cameras running, they now get to plan out their story. We'll probably end up hearing that they thought she was trying to reach for their gun, or something.

So the cops should be convicted of murder just because the cameras weren't on? That would be ridiculous.

Cops can't easily keep body cameras on all the time. Battery life pretty much precludes that. Most of these systems get activated prior to an incident response but if the cops were approached before activating the camera then there would be no recording. As far as the car camera goes, sometimes stuff breaks. It happens to all of us.
 
So the cops should be convicted of murder just because the cameras weren't on? That would be ridiculous.

Cops can't easily keep body cameras on all the time. Battery life pretty much precludes that. Most of these systems get activated prior to an incident response but if the cops were approached before activating the camera then there would be no recording. As far as the car camera goes, sometimes stuff breaks. It happens to all of us.

It would be ridiculous to say "the cops should be convicted of murder just because the cameras weren't on"? Well, it's a good thing I said nothing of the sort.





Anyway...this thread should just be left to die because there was another one up already:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/brea...ce-after-calling-911-report-assault-fami.html
 
The shots were fired inside the passengers side of the squad across the face of the cop driving! The shooter was black. Definition:Assaination
 
It's becoming increasingly clear that interacting with police in any way is hazardous to your health.
 
I have always wondered what the ratio of time at the gun range and time being training in citizen interaction is?
Add to this the militarization in equipment and attitude of the police, and you have tragedies like this and others.
How many miss Reed & Malloy from Adam-12?
 
A yoga and meditation teacher living in Minneapolis was fatally shot by police Saturday night after she called 911 to report a possible assault in the alley behind her home . . . The call for help came in just before 11:30 p.m. Saturday, according to a news release from the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, the state agency investigating the shooting. Two Minneapolis Police Department officers went to an alley near her home in the Fulton neighborhood, on the city’s southwest side. “At one point an officer fired their weapon, fatally striking a woman,” the statement said. But the BCA offered few other details on what precipitated the shooting and, it said, neither of the responding officers had turned on their body cameras before the shooting. The squad car camera did not capture the incident, either. . .

. . .
Three people “with knowledge of the incident” told the Star Tribune that the responding officers pulled into the alley behind Damond’s home. The woman, wearing pajamas, approached the driver’s side door and was talking to the driver, reported the Star Tribune. The officer in the passenger seat shot Damond through the driver’s side door, the three people told the newspaper.
When asked about the Star Tribune report, Jill Oliveira, spokeswoman for the BCA, said only that investigators are still working to “learn more about the events that transpired.” “We will provide details as the investigation continues. However, at this point the BCA is in the very early stages of the investigation.” In a video posted to the Women’s March Minnesota Facebook page, Zach Damond, Justine Damond’s stepson-to-be, said: “Basically, my mom’s dead because a police officer shot her for reasons I don’t know. I demand answers. If anybody can help, just call the police and demand answers. I’m so done with all this violence.”

He added: “America sucks. These cops need to get trained differently. I need to move out of here.”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...apolis-police-officer/?utm_term=.3cbcdc230337




So a woman calls the police to report a possible assault outside her home, starts talking to the officers next to his car, and one of them decides to shoot her down. And of course, somehow neither the squad car cam nor any bodycam was turn on.

How wrong could our training possibly get?

The police should be tried for murder since they did not turn on their body cam's.

Turning them on should be mandatory and failing to do so should lead to murder charges every time they shoot with =out them on.

That will change this bull**** of "accidentally having them off" really fast...
 
Having three cameras doesn't do much good if the people whom they are supposed to record don't turn them on, eh?

No, it doesn't do any good to not have the cameras on. That's pretty obvious.

It might do the cop really good. He might just get away with murder...
 
A yoga and meditation teacher living in Minneapolis was fatally shot by police Saturday night after she called 911 to report a possible assault in the alley behind her home . . . The call for help came in just before 11:30 p.m. Saturday, according to a news release from the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, the state agency investigating the shooting. Two Minneapolis Police Department officers went to an alley near her home in the Fulton neighborhood, on the city’s southwest side. “At one point an officer fired their weapon, fatally striking a woman,” the statement said. But the BCA offered few other details on what precipitated the shooting and, it said, neither of the responding officers had turned on their body cameras before the shooting. The squad car camera did not capture the incident, either. . .

. . .
Three people “with knowledge of the incident” told the Star Tribune that the responding officers pulled into the alley behind Damond’s home. The woman, wearing pajamas, approached the driver’s side door and was talking to the driver, reported the Star Tribune. The officer in the passenger seat shot Damond through the driver’s side door, the three people told the newspaper.
When asked about the Star Tribune report, Jill Oliveira, spokeswoman for the BCA, said only that investigators are still working to “learn more about the events that transpired.” “We will provide details as the investigation continues. However, at this point the BCA is in the very early stages of the investigation.” In a video posted to the Women’s March Minnesota Facebook page, Zach Damond, Justine Damond’s stepson-to-be, said: “Basically, my mom’s dead because a police officer shot her for reasons I don’t know. I demand answers. If anybody can help, just call the police and demand answers. I’m so done with all this violence.”

He added: “America sucks. These cops need to get trained differently. I need to move out of here.”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...apolis-police-officer/?utm_term=.3cbcdc230337




So a woman calls the police to report a possible assault outside her home, starts talking to the officers next to his car, and one of them decides to shoot her down. And of course, somehow neither the squad car cam nor any bodycam was turn on.

How wrong could our training possibly get?

Think twice or hope that there is no loud noise behind you while you are talking to one of the cops while the other happens to be a jumpy rookie.
 
Having three cameras doesn't do much good if the people whom they are supposed to record don't turn them on, eh?

I remember a few years ago a dad called the cops on his son for taking the car without permission. Wanted to teach his son a lesson. Well, cops ended up shooting his son dead. The only lesson is don't call the cops unless you have to and even then try to stay away from them, unless you are in a country free from renegade cops that go out shooting people at will and getting away with it... like where I live!!
 
I don't know about murder, but the situation is pretty ****ed up. According to the other thread, the shooter is now claiming that he heard a loud noise. That's why he shot a woman in her PJs multiple times.



Unless they had some ongoing fued, it sounds like horrible training and a horrible scared idiot intersected.
 
I remember a few years ago a dad called the cops on his son for taking the car without permission. Wanted to teach his son a lesson. Well, cops ended up shooting his son dead. The only lesson is don't call the cops unless you have to and even then try to stay away from them, unless you are in a country free from renegade cops that go out shooting people at will and getting away with it... like where I live!!

Yes, yes he did.

Dad Calls Cops on Son to Teach Him a Lesson, Cops Shoot Son Dead

"He was a smart kid. He made his own computers. He was interested in IT," James told the Register. The family's demands for answers got even louder following the revelation that a member of the Ames police department suggested twice that officers call off the chase. "He took off with my truck. I call the police, and they kill him," James said. ""It was over a damn pack of cigarettes." McPherson is currently on paid leave pending the results of his department's investigation.






Paid leave. Wonder what happened. I don't recall.
 
Having three cameras doesn't do much good if the people whom they are supposed to record don't turn them on, eh?

I don't know about murder, but the situation is pretty ****ed up. According to the other thread, the shooter is now claiming that he heard a loud noise. That's why he shot a woman in her PJs multiple times.



Unless they had some ongoing fued, it sounds like horrible training and a horrible scared idiot intersected.

I am trying to think of a way to make the police accountable to the public... which right now they are not... at least not very much.
 
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