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Gun Violence is Not a Republican Problem, It’s a Democratic Problem [W:22]

fatuous1 said:
FACT: The most dangerous cities and towns in America in 2017, have two things in common: Black Folks and Hispanic Folks

FACT: The safest cities and towns in America in 2017, have three things in common: White Folks, Hispanic Folks, and Jewish Folks
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fact, the most dangerous cities in the country have lots of criminals.
 
Ah yes, gangs cause people to vote democrat.

Looks like we finally found the cause of autism. Guess we should switch over to processed food. It may be less healthy but at least it doesn't cause autism
Autism-Organic.jpg

Who knew pirates were actually preserving the planet's ecosystem?
fsm-pirates-vs-temp.jpg

BREAKING NEWS! cheese causes people to become entangled in their beds and die
cheese-consumption.jpg

Surprised these things are related? You should be because they aren't
CORRELATION.jpg

And not only does correlation not equal causation but the premise of gangs causing people to vote democrat may not be entirely true. For example, look at Louisiana or Vermont. Louisiana is in the deep south and almost always votes republican yet it has the highest homicide rate in the US. Vermont on the other hand is a safe state for progressives yet it has one of the lowest homicide rates in the country.
 
fatuous1 said:
Democrats are killing one another in unprecedented numbers: Gun Violence is Not a Republican Problem, It?s a Democratic Problem | Frontpage Mag

:2wave:

FACT: If the Federal Government took away guns from all Republicans the Murder Rate in the United States would more than likely go up a notch or two!

fatuous1:lol:
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False.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm

As you can see here deaths per capita by gun are actually significantly higher in Red Republican states than they are in blue liberal states. Even Illinois which has a lot of deaths on the south side of Chicago still has fewer gun deaths per capita than all but 11 states. In fact the top ten states with the lowest gun death rates per capita are all generally fairly liberal states. Meanwhile of the top ten worst states for gun deaths per capita all but New Mexico regularly votes Republican.

You see while there is a fairly high number of deaths in a city like Chicago the reality is that the city of Chicago has a massive massive population, and those deaths actually only amount to a relatively small portion of it. There are actually 5 Republican states who have more than double the deaths of Illinois per capita.
 
MrWonka said:
False.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm

As you can see here deaths per capita by gun are actually significantly higher in Red Republican states than they are in blue liberal states. Even Illinois which has a lot of deaths on the south side of Chicago still has fewer gun deaths per capita than all but 11 states. In fact the top ten states with the lowest gun death rates per capita are all generally fairly liberal states. Meanwhile of the top ten worst states for gun deaths per capita all but New Mexico regularly votes Republican.

You see while there is a fairly high number of deaths in a city like Chicago the reality is that the city of Chicago has a massive massive population, and those deaths actually only amount to a relatively small portion of it. There are actually 5 Republican states who have more than double the deaths of Illinois per capita.
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gun violence and gun deaths not involving suicide is mainly an inner city issue. black males commit more than half the murders in this country. and while most murderers are gang bangers who don't bother to vote, claiming the GOP is their party is beyond stupid. Most of the gun violence also takes place in areas controlled by Democrats. that isn't exactly the fault of the Democrats because crowded urban dwellers-both rich and poor tend to vote for more government. but to blame the GOP for gun violence is really silly
 
TurtleDude said:
gun violence and gun deaths not involving suicide is mainly an inner city issue. black males commit more than half the murders in this country. and while most murderers are gang bangers who don't bother to vote, claiming the GOP is their party is beyond stupid. Most of the gun violence also takes place in areas controlled by Democrats. that isn't exactly the fault of the Democrats because crowded urban dwellers-both rich and poor tend to vote for more government. but to blame the GOP for gun violence is really silly
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I don't care who gets the blame. We just need gun control to stop it
 
TurtleDude said:
and while most murderers are gang bangers who don't bother to vote, claiming the GOP is their party is beyond stupid.
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I'm not claiming that the GOP is their party. As you said, they likely don't vote at all. I'm simply pointing out the reality that while there a lot of deaths in major cities like Chicago, the population of Chicago is so large that it really only amounts to a very small percentage when looked at on a per capita basis. Meanwhile gun deaths per person are actually significantly higher in rural conservative states than they are in liberal ones. They have far fewer people living there, but on average you have more gun deaths per person.


TurtleDude said:
Most of the gun violence also takes place in areas controlled by Democrats.
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This is simply due to the fact that crime rates are naturally higher in major cities. This has nothing to do with Democrat policy other than the fact that so many people like it that we our population is huge. The violence in Chicago has more to do with the fact that as the biggest major city in the central United States it is a major drug trafficking hub. It's no different than in the 20's when it was a major alcohol trafficking hub, and home to white gangsters like Al Capone.

TurtleDude said:
but to blame the GOP for gun violence is really silly
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The facts don't lie. Gun deaths per capita are higher in Red Republican states than they are in Blue liberal states. The top ten states with the lowest gun deaths per capita are all generally liberal states. With Illinois coming in 12th despite the high quantity of deaths in Chicago. Meanwhile 9 out of the 10 states with the worst gun death per capita numbers are all Red Republican states.
 
MrWonka said:
I'm not claiming that the GOP is their party. As you said, they likely don't vote at all. I'm simply pointing out the reality that while there a lot of deaths in major cities like Chicago, the population of Chicago is so large that it really only amounts to a very small percentage when looked at on a per capita basis. Meanwhile gun deaths per person are actually significantly higher in rural conservative states than they are in liberal ones. They have far fewer people living there, but on average you have more gun deaths per person.



This is simply due to the fact that crime rates are naturally higher in major cities. This has nothing to do with Democrat policy other than the fact that so many people like it that we our population is huge. The violence in Chicago has more to do with the fact that as the biggest major city in the central United States it is a major drug trafficking hub. It's no different than in the 20's when it was a major alcohol trafficking hub, and home to white gangsters like Al Capone.



The facts don't lie. Gun deaths per capita are higher in Red Republican states than they are in Blue liberal states. The top ten states with the lowest gun deaths per capita are all generally liberal states. With Illinois coming in 12th despite the high quantity of deaths in Chicago. Meanwhile 9 out of the 10 states with the worst gun death per capita numbers are all Red Republican states.
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the cities with their own gun laws that have the worst rates of gun violence are Dem run. trying to blame the GOP for black gun violence is just plain silly
 
TurtleDude said:
the cities with their own gun laws that have the worst rates of gun violence are Dem run. trying to blame the GOP for black gun violence is just plain silly
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He clearly said states....a fact you can't refute
 
We still have a high gun violence rate even when you remove some of the worst offending gang-related cities. I've tried to massage the U.S. statistics to look as good as I reasonably could while debating someone from the UK...which has incredibly insanely low homicide and obviously gun crime rates.
There rates are so low that they have about as many "airsoft" guns used in crimes (vandalism, harassment, hooliganism, etc.), and airsoft type guns have their own data set. Talk about "first world problems"...
 
TurtleDude said:
the cities with their own gun laws that have the worst rates of gun violence are Dem run. trying to blame the GOP for black gun violence is just plain silly
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I'm not trying to blame the GOP for black gun violence, this thread is trying to tell us that Democrats are to blame for it, and I'm saying that's a bunch of bull****.

What I'm telling you is that Red Conservative States where everyone in their horse owns a gun have higher gun death rates per capita than Liberal states do. Even with a city like Chicago and all the violence it has the state of Illinois as a whole still has better fun death rates than almost every single solitary Conservative Republican state.
 
MrWonka said:
I'm not trying to blame the GOP for black gun violence, this thread is trying to tell us that Democrats are to blame for it, and I'm saying that's a bunch of bull****.

What I'm telling you is that Red Conservative States where everyone in their horse owns a gun have higher gun death rates per capita than Liberal states do. Even with a city like Chicago and all the violence it has the state of Illinois as a whole still has better fun death rates than almost every single solitary Conservative Republican state.
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Prepare for the suicide debate. You are right...but they will split hairs
 
vegas giants said:
Prepare for the suicide debate. You are right...but they will split hairs
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The fact that a ton of people in Conservative states want to commit suicide isn't exactly a very good argument for the quality of conservative states.
 
MrWonka said:
I'm not trying to blame the GOP for black gun violence, this thread is trying to tell us that Democrats are to blame for it, and I'm saying that's a bunch of bull****.

What I'm telling you is that Red Conservative States where everyone in their horse owns a gun have higher gun death rates per capita than Liberal states do. Even with a city like Chicago and all the violence it has the state of Illinois as a whole still has better fun death rates than almost every single solitary Conservative Republican state.
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you are probably counting suicides in your effort to pretend red states (which often are retiree heavy areas) have more gun deaths than blue states. the fact is-and what we are concerned about-is violent crime perpetrated by armed criminals. Not people committing suicide which is not something law enforcement has any real interest in. Violent gun crime is generally something perpetrated by people who already are banned from possessing firearms due to the federal ban on felons possessing guns. and that number is around 80% and probably higher since juvenile felony level records are not searchable. gang related activity is the vast majority of gun violence in this country and most of that takes place in blue cities.

yet Blue politicians insist on passing laws that do not change the legal environment for gangsters or felons-only people who have not caused crimes with guns and can legally own them. now why is that?

1) to pretend they are doing SOMETHING about crime and hoping that the average slow witted sheeple will not pay attention to the facts

2) so they can harass the NRA and gun rights voters (who almost never support Democrats-especially leftwing versions) while NOT doing anything to upset a major constituency of that party-the segment of society where most of the violent criminals come from
 
MrWonka said:
The fact that a ton of people in Conservative states want to commit suicide isn't exactly a very good argument for the quality of conservative states.
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I told you. Like clockwork. Some people don't care about gun suicides because it interferes with their agenda
 
TurtleDude said:
you are probably counting suicides
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HAHAH!!!

So your argument is that people in Conservative states tend to commit suicide more often? Not exactly a ringing endorsement of conservative states. The point here is that more guns leads to more gun deaths.

TurtleDude said:
the fact is-and what we are concerned about-is violent crime perpetrated by armed criminals.
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Really? Okay, let's take a look at those statistics......

https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...cas-most-violent-and-peacefulstates/87658252/

well would you look at that. Out of the top ten states for violent crime in America only two voted for Hillary Clinton. Illinois isn't even in the top 10.

Here's a picture for you, maybe that will help you out...

Violent Crime statistics by state | Interactive Crime Map 2017

You notice how all those southern states are really dark red meanwhile all those northern liberal elitist states are a much lighter color? That's because there is more violent crime per capita in the conservative south than there is in liberal states.

Once again even with all the crime in Chicago, Illinois as a whole is actually has less violent crime than many southern conservative gun toting states.

So why don't you try and spin me another bull**** lie?
 
MrWonka said:
HAHAH!!!

So your argument is that people in Conservative states tend to commit suicide more often? Not exactly a ringing endorsement of conservative states. The point here is that more guns leads to more gun deaths.


Really? Okay, let's take a look at those statistics......

https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...cas-most-violent-and-peacefulstates/87658252/

well would you look at that. Out of the top ten states for violent crime in America only two voted for Hillary Clinton. Illinois isn't even in the top 10.

Here's a picture for you, maybe that will help you out...

Violent Crime statistics by state | Interactive Crime Map 2017

You notice how all those southern states are really dark red meanwhile all those northern liberal elitist states are a much lighter color? That's because there is more violent crime per capita in the conservative south than there is in liberal states.

Once again even with all the crime in Chicago, Illinois as a whole is actually has less violent crime than many southern conservative gun toting states.

So why don't you try and spin me another bull**** lie?
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Next is the shift to blaming blacks. That's the script
 
ray188 said:
However, if the stats support "the script", is "the script" in error??
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If your problem is blacks in America what is your solution. All I ever hear is complaints
 
vegas giants said:
If your problem is blacks in America what is your solution. All I ever hear is complaints
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No, my problem is crime in America regardless of who commits it. I only object to people accusing others of having a racist "script". For example, if blacks are in jail out of proportion to their percentage of the population, that is looked on as racism. On the other hand, if they committed a crime, that is not about race, it is about crime.

My solution? Swift and sure justice without the politics of race. There is no way the police or society can stop crime. All that can be done is increase the certainty of punishment and that the punishment outweighs the benefit of the crime thereby causing self-motivated non-criminal actions.
 
ray188 said:
No, my problem is crime in America regardless of who commits it. I only object to people accusing others of having a racist "script". For example, if blacks are in jail out of proportion to their percentage of the population, that is looked on as racism. On the other hand, if they committed a crime, that is not about race, it is about crime.

My solution? Swift and sure justice without the politics of race. There is no way the police or society can stop crime. All that can be done is increase the certainty of punishment and that the punishment outweighs the benefit of the crime thereby causing self-motivated non-criminal actions.
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So you are ok with increased taxes for all the new prisons?
 
vegas giants said:
So you are ok with increased taxes for all the new prisons?
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So, sure. In this life, if you want it, you have to be willing to pay form it. Or get someone else to pay for it if you are a Dem.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Nope, we should lower taxes by letting more criminals roam freely among us. ;)
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as long as they are allowed to vote for democrats, they might well support that concept
 
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