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Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders ...?

fatuous1

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QUESTION: Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders of Germany and South Korea?

1) Merkel meets with Obama, then Trump - CNNPolitics.com

2) https://www.redflagnews.com/headlin...korean-president-moon-jae-in-to-discuss-trump

The Logan Act:

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

fatuous1
 
Re: Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders .

No.


/thread/
 
Re: Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders .

QUESTION: Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders of Germany and South Korea?

1) Merkel meets with Obama, then Trump - CNNPolitics.com

2) https://www.redflagnews.com/headlin...korean-president-moon-jae-in-to-discuss-trump

The Logan Act:

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

fatuous1

It depends on what was discussed at their meeting, which I find highly unlikely we'll ever know.
 
Re: Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders .

Beat me to it...

But I couldn't have said it better myself.

I suspect that you are 100% correct! ... but these private meetings with world leaders seem to be a bit unusual, to say the very least! We definitely would never want an unofficial private citizen to interfere in our Foreign Affairs!

fatuous1
 
Re: Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders .

Because he has freedom of speech.
No he dosnt. He does not have the authority to speak on behalf of the US without the administrations consent.

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Re: Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders .

No he dosnt. He does not have the authority to speak on behalf of the US without the administrations consent.

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he is a private citizen with no legal power and can have private conversations with other people. He does not speak on the behalf of the US but on behalf of himself.
 
Re: Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders .

QUESTION: Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders of Germany and South Korea?

1) Merkel meets with Obama, then Trump - CNNPolitics.com

2) https://www.redflagnews.com/headlin...korean-president-moon-jae-in-to-discuss-trump

The Logan Act:

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

fatuous1

Without a lot of fanfair he needs to be told to retire, not pretend he can "do" policy.
 
Re: Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders .

he is a private citizen with no legal power and can have private conversations with other people. He does not speak on the behalf of the US but on behalf of himself.
Thats fine if that is all he did. My only point was that his freedom of speech is not an absolute right and depending on the circumstances he may or may not of violated the law. I know I read an article recently that portrayed him like he was talking on behalf of US policy with a foreign gov. If he is doing that (not saying he is) than he is vulnerable to being charged with a crime. You made it sound very black and white but its not so clear to me that he was within his rights.

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Re: Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders .

It depends on what was discussed at their meeting, which I find highly unlikely we'll ever know.

Best answer for this thread.

And thus the answer is essentially "no" unless further information is provided. And it's so inconsequential there's no reason to really spend time/resources digging into it.
 
Re: Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders .

Why is President Obama still acting presidential, when he is no longer the President
Because he can.
Why is former President Obama taking to the world stage to criticize President Trump:
Because he doesn't agree with what Trump is doing, and unlike past Presidents he's deciding to utilize the stature the position gave him in an effort to remain significantly politically active.
 
Re: Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders .

Thats fine if that is all he did. My only point was that his freedom of speech is not an absolute right and depending on the circumstances he may or may not of violated the law. I know I read an article recently that portrayed him like he was talking on behalf of US policy with a foreign gov. If he is doing that (not saying he is) than he is vulnerable to being charged with a crime. You made it sound very black and white but its not so clear to me that he was within his rights.

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Well, as he is not a representative of the US government or speaks in any official capacity with people, as long as he does not break secrecy laws or stuff like that, he is free to use his freedom of speech with other people, even with foreign leaders he may have gotten a friendly relationship with.
 
Re: Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders .

he is a private citizen with no legal power and can have private conversations with other people. He does not speak on the behalf of the US but on behalf of himself.

Correct. Hard for former presidents to step down with finality. Look at Carter, for example.
 
Re: Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders .

Well, as he is not a representative of the US government or speaks in any official capacity with people, as long as he does not break secrecy laws or stuff like that, he is free to use his freedom of speech with other people, even with foreign leaders he may have gotten a friendly relationship with.
Agreed but i have recently read an article that seemed to imply that he was reassuring foreighin regimes about our policy in contradiction to what they think trumps policies are. If thats true and the trump administration did not sanction it. He has violated our law

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Re: Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders .

No he dosnt. He does not have the authority to speak on behalf of the US without the administrations consent.

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He is a private citizen. He is not speaking on behalf of the country.

Is any private citizen in violation of the law by speaking to any foreign leader? Of course not.
 
Re: Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders .

He is a private citizen. He is not speaking on behalf of the country.

Is any private citizen in violation of the law by speaking to any foreign leader? Of course not.
You know its interesting you say this. Why are trump associated people being deminized for having dealings with foreign entities?

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Re: Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders .

Agreed but i have recently read an article that seemed to imply that he was reassuring foreighin regimes about our policy in contradiction to what they think trumps policies are. If thats true and the trump administration did not sanction it. He has violated our law

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Again, private person not representing the US. And when a private person gives someone his opinion about US politics, does not make him do anything illegal IMHO. Especially because the Logan act only is valid when it is in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States. There is zero evidence Obama did that because the US is not in conflict or has disputes with Germany or South Korea, both allies and friendly nations who have no dispute with the US.

How can he reassure anybody of anything in a foreign country if he is a powerless citizen? It is not like he was a representative of the Trump campaign who met with Russian officials during a time when there was a clear conflict between the US and Russia. Obama is a powerless citizen who met with politicians of countries who do not have a dispute with the US like the Logan acts specify must be there to even be considered.

Also, just one (read it ONE) person in the early 19th century has ever been charged under that act, an act that was just put on the books because mr. Logan succeeded where the federalist envoys of President Adams had failed. The Federalist were so butt hurt by mr. Logan's achievement that they adopted a law against it (which is pretty petty IMHO).
 
Re: Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders .

Again, private person not representing the US. And when a private person gives someone his opinion about US politics, does not make him do anything illegal IMHO. Especially because the Logan act only is valid when it is in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States. There is zero evidence Obama did that because the US is not in conflict or has disputes with Germany or South Korea, both allies and friendly nations who have no dispute with the US.

How can he reassure anybody of anything in a foreign country if he is a powerless citizen? It is not like he was a representative of the Trump campaign who met with Russian officials during a time when there was a clear conflict between the US and Russia. Obama is a powerless citizen who met with politicians of countries who do not have a dispute with the US like the Logan acts specify must be there to even be considered.

Also, just one (read it ONE) person in the early 19th century has ever been charged under that act, an act that was just put on the books because mr. Logan succeeded where the federalist envoys of President Adams had failed. The Federalist were so butt hurt by mr. Logan's achievement that they adopted a law against it (which is pretty petty IMHO).
If you wanna go down that rabbit hole (i agree with your point too btw) could we not say the very same thing about candidate trump and his people too?

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Re: Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders .

If you wanna go down that rabbit hole (i agree with your point too btw) could we not say the very same thing about candidate trump and his people too?

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Except some of this took place after he won the election and it can be argued that he was in a race to get into a position of power at what time agreements made previously could come into effect. Obama has no such option, he cannot become president again so he has no ability at all to make promises materialize as Trump could (as discussed by his advisors, and one of those advisors even would hold a cabinet position).
 
Re: Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders .

QUESTION: Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders of Germany and South Korea?

1) Merkel meets with Obama, then Trump - CNNPolitics.com

2) https://www.redflagnews.com/headlin...korean-president-moon-jae-in-to-discuss-trump

The Logan Act:

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

fatuous1

I doubt he is having intercourse with Merkel. But, I do think he's basically saying intercourse Trump.
 
Re: Did former President Obama break U.S. Law by meeting privately with the leaders .

Except some of this took place after he won the election and it can be argued that he was in a race to get into a position of power at what time agreements made previously could come into effect. Obama has no such option, he cannot become president again so he has no ability at all to make promises materialize as Trump could (as discussed by his advisors, and one of those advisors even would hold a cabinet position).
I could legitimately argue that Obama has influence with people in positions of power and has the potential ability to make things happen. From my perspective it feels hypocritical to defend one and criticize the other. Either they are both protected or they both should be under scrutiny. IMO, in the absence of any conclusive evidence, they both get the benefit of doubt. I know everyone has their own opinion. Im just sharing mine. Im not saying Im right or yours is wrong.

This is where I get twisted and find myself at odds with both sides. I dont understand how you hold one accountable and give the other a pass. Not saying you spcifically but in general, if you want me to respect your positions. Its equally as important to hold your side accountable when they violate a principled conviction as it is to hold the other side accountable. Criticisms should be consistent

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