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POLICE VIDEO of THE DAY!!!!!!!

I won't post links, but cops are NOT all required to provide first aid to people they've shot. A first responder to a traffic accident is very different than giving first aid to someone who was just shooting at you. There's much to be done to secure a situation. Is there anyone else in the car? Remember, this cop thought the guy was presenting a gun. Where IS the guy's gun? Does he have any other weapons on him? Then there's the adrenalin rush to be overcome and recovered from.

Different departments have different policies re rendering first aid to those with whom they've been involved in a shooting. In many departments, a cop has fulfilled his duty by calling for paramedics. We may not AGREE with those policies, but when officers adhere to them, they can hardly be blamed.

Gun(wallet) was secured, they shined their lights on it multiple times. Their primary issue was that absolutely terrified truck driver who ran for his life.

He was screaming at a man who was shot not to move, despite obvious outward signs of shock being present.

If that's policy, and not just a bad cop, then our problems here are even more grave, and go far indeed to justify some of the crap Cuban Smokes has been spouting.
 
time for a NEW thread ................ Fred ...............



Good example for why you do not get out of the vehicle until cop tells you to exist the vehicle.
 
Well, I trust my spider senses. The only conclusion I jumped to was I wild ass guessed he was intoxicated. As to the guilt of the officer, it appears I was correct.

You mean you endorse a clear travesty of justice. That was attempted murder; cop should have been locked up.
 
Not necessarily.

The point is that whenever a police officer arrives on scene to survey an issue, it can turn deadly. I am sure we can pull video of incident after incident showing how the most innocuous of situations can suddenly turn deadly for a police officer.

People need to remember that the job itself entails constant contact on a daily basis with citizens of various attitudes and levels of threat. 99% of the time it could be perfectly fine...the remaining 1% still gets the officer killed or wounded.

In this situation we are dealing with a night incident, and an officer dealing with any situation at night is at a heightened level of awareness and anxiety. This because it is harder to see and as a result allows for a greater level of surprise favoring the individual being encountered.

Moreover, as pointed out elsewhere in this thread, unless the citizens are already outside of their vehicles when the officer pulls up, they are expected to remain inside their vehicles unless and until the officer states otherwise. This for everyone's safety, especially on a highway in regards to passing motor vehicles.

Again, I am not saying the officer was right. In fact, as I stated I believe I would have reacted less precipitously. However, according to the summary under the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr0NFyD0Nzw

Yep.

I do not know why people do not understand that any encounter with a cop is automatically situation critical, especially at night. Do not hold anything in your hand. Do not make sudden moves. Do not do anything he told you not to do. Sit in your damned car, hands on the wheel until he tells you to show him license and registration. And, if those happen to be in some weird place, tell him you are reaching into the g box, under the seat, or digging into the center console.

Make a sudden move, come out of your vehicle with a dark object in your hand, reach in a strange place without telling him...yeah, you just might get shot.
 
Dude wasn't pulled over, dude was in a fender bender. He was in the process of getting out before the officer even parked. He was fighting gravity to get out. The truck driver was out, why didn't he get shot?

Bottom line, I'm as much a defender of LEOs as anyone, an officer literally saved my life a few years back...but this guy reminded very strongly of the idiot Ramathorn, or whatever his name was, from super troopers. He made a demand, and gave the guy .06 seconds to comply, before getting shot. Seriously. Put yourself in the drivers position. You're on the interstate, you got in a fender bender. The other driver is already out, approaching you, likely with insurance info. What do you do? I would get out, talk, maybe take pictures. Unless, of course, officer Ramathorn is there, and you desire not to get shot.

How normal would it be for you to get your billfold out and hold it with both hands reaching toward another person in the same stance as if you were holding a hand gun?

The cops I know, and I know a lot of them, have two No. 1 major fears:

1. Domestic violence calls that so often end badly

2. Night time traffic stops that end badly more than we usually hear about.

And there is often a split second of decision making time that determines whether the police will shoot first or be shot.

I don't know that the officer in the video acted properly--a review by those in the know will determine that--but the video clip in my opinion did offer some justification for reasonable doubt as to the intentions of the motorist as well as the reaction of the police officer. I can't make a rush to judgment on this one.

I did find it very uncomfortable and it felt wrong that they did not offer immediate medical assistance to the wounded motorist in obvious terrible pain.
 
Yep.

I do not know why people do not understand that any encounter with a cop is automatically situation critical, especially at night. Do not hold anything in your hand. Do not make sudden moves. Do not do anything he told you not to do. Sit in your damned car, hands on the wheel until he tells you to show him license and registration. And, if those happen to be in some weird place, tell him you are reaching into the g box, under the seat, or digging into the center console.

Make a sudden move, come out of your vehicle with a dark object in your hand, reach in a strange place without telling him...yeah, you just might get shot.

Is this really the world people want to live in. Police state, indeed. I think people defending the officer are just sheep at the slaughter. Shame.
 
How normal would it be for you to get your billfold out and hold it with both hands reaching toward another person in the same stance as if you were holding a hand gun?

The cops I know, and I know a lot of them, have two No. 1 major fears:

1. Domestic violence calls that so often end badly

2. Night time traffic stops that end badly more than we usually hear about.

And there is often a split second of decision making time that determines whether the police will shoot first or be shot.

I don't know that the officer in the video acted properly--a review by those in the know will determine that--but the video clip in my opinion did offer some justification for reasonable doubt as to the intentions of the motorist as well as the reaction of the police officer. I can't make a rush to judgment on this one.

I did find it very uncomfortable and it felt wrong that they did not offer immediate medical assistance to the wounded motorist in obvious terrible pain.

Yeah. That's how murdering thugs behave. Again, it's the good cops who are tarnished by this nonsense. Thank God BLM and others are keeping attention on this issue. Our criminal justice system is broken. BTW, this wasn't a traffic stop.
 
Some good information here:

Conducted with everything from sunny smiles to shows of force, thousands of traffic stops take place daily across America's highways and byways. These detentions are effected by officers whose tactics are often sounder than those of their predecessors and whose patrol vehicles sport state-of-the-art safety features. Yet the traffic stop remains one of the most dangerous aspects of police work. . .


The Hazards of Traffic Stops - Article - POLICE Magazine
 
Some good information here:

Conducted with everything from sunny smiles to shows of force, thousands of traffic stops take place daily across America's highways and byways. These detentions are effected by officers whose tactics are often sounder than those of their predecessors and whose patrol vehicles sport state-of-the-art safety features. Yet the traffic stop remains one of the most dangerous aspects of police work. . .


The Hazards of Traffic Stops - Article - POLICE Magazine

Which is totally irrelevant to the use of deadly force against unarmed citizens who have a rights. We continue to see a pattern of violence by agents of the state, but you and others continue to argue that an officer's fear justifies killing innocents. What about the terror these abuses inflict on a population?
 
Yep.

I do not know why people do not understand that any encounter with a cop is automatically situation critical, especially at night. Do not hold anything in your hand. Do not make sudden moves. Do not do anything he told you not to do. Sit in your damned car, hands on the wheel until he tells you to show him license and registration. And, if those happen to be in some weird place, tell him you are reaching into the g box, under the seat, or digging into the center console.

Make a sudden move, come out of your vehicle with a dark object in your hand, reach in a strange place without telling him...yeah, you just might get shot.

Would you accept those conditions when interacting with anyone else?
 
Which is totally irrelevant to the use of deadly force against unarmed citizens who have a rights. We continue to see a pattern of violence by agents of the state, but you and others continue to argue that an officer's fear justifies killing innocents. What about the terror these abuses inflict on a population?

It isn't irrelevant at all. This had all the same characteristics as a traffic stop. All good defensive driving courses tell us what to do when we are stopped. The driver and all occupants of the car should have their hands where the officer can clearly see them. You do not exit the car until instructed to do so by the officer.

In this case, the guy exited his car as the officer was approaching, immediately raised something dark held in both hands, pointed at the officer, in the same manner as somebody with a hand gun would do. I could not make out what the guy was holding, and it appears the officer had reason to believe he had a split second to choose to shoot or be shot. That issue will be evaluated and decided by those who will investigate the shooting.

As for the police not rendering first aid, they could not see one of the hands of the victim and repeatedly asked him if he was armed.

Here is one account of the proper procedure in such a case:

Police officers are trained to shoot for the “center of mass”- the chest and abdomen, in order to neutralize the threat to themselves and others as soon as possible- that is not exactly the same as “shooting to kill”, but I get your point. Part of the reason is that cops are really bad shots (33 cops fired 600 shots to stop Stockton bank robbers), so shooting for the center is really the only option. (In a more rational world, cops would carry shotguns, which, like cameras, are highly reliable and “point and shoot”). The only saving grace is perpetrators are almost always worse shots.

Once the perpetrator is down, they are still a threat until they are disarmed and secured, so until handcuffed, no first aid is provided.​
https://www.quora.com/Do-Police-render-first-aid-after-they-have-shot-someone

So again I wasn't there and can't conclusively judge. I was just uncomfortable with them not helping the guy sooner than they did.
 
It isn't irrelevant at all. This had all the same characteristics as a traffic stop. All good defensive driving courses tell us what to do when we are stopped. The driver and all occupants of the car should have their hands where the officer can clearly see them. You do not exit the car until instructed to do so by the officer.

In this case, the guy exited his car as the officer was approaching, immediately raised something dark held in both hands, pointed at the officer, in the same manner as somebody with a hand gun would do. I could not make out what the guy was holding, and it appears the officer had reason to believe he had a split second to choose to shoot or be shot. That issue will be evaluated and decided by those who will investigate the shooting.

As for the police not rendering first aid, they could not see one of the hands of the victim and repeatedly asked him if he was armed.

Here is one account of the proper procedure in such a case:
Police officers are trained to shoot for the “center of mass”- the chest and abdomen, in order to neutralize the threat to themselves and others as soon as possible- that is not exactly the same as “shooting to kill”, but I get your point. Part of the reason is that cops are really bad shots (33 cops fired 600 shots to stop Stockton bank robbers), so shooting for the center is really the only option. (In a more rational world, cops would carry shotguns, which, like cameras, are highly reliable and “point and shoot”). The only saving grace is perpetrators are almost always worse shots.

Once the perpetrator is down, they are still a threat until they are disarmed and secured, so until handcuffed, no first aid is provided.​
https://www.quora.com/Do-Police-render-first-aid-after-they-have-shot-someone

So again I wasn't there and can't conclusively judge. I was just uncomfortable with them not helping the guy sooner than they did.

You're not considering the victim's point of view at all. If the system only recognizes an officer's state of mind, then the system has to change. It's absurd to argue that an officer doesn't have to have situational awareness -- only fear -- to justify opening fire. Meanwhile, a "suspect" with a loaded gun pointed at him is supposed to behave completely rationally and calmly without any hint of disobedience or panic. How the hell does that work?
 
DONT TALK TO COPS says NYPD Detective

Retired NYPD Detective Carlton "Chucky" Berkeley tells the community "Dont talk to cops!" during a presentation about how to deal with abusive police practices hosted by The Police Reform Organizing Project (PROP)





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Eric Garner video - Unedited version





No Indictment on NYPD Chokehold Eric Garner

 
Unjustly cleared. If cops can't handle the profession and can't respect citizens' rights, then they need to find a new line of work.

lol...it's not like cops are overpaid. We're lucky to find people who are willing to take that ****ty job, especially people who are not on the take or extorting drivers for $100 every time they pull them over. Ever been to Mexico?
 
lol...it's not like cops are overpaid. We're lucky to find people who are willing to take that ****ty job, especially people who are not on the take or extorting drivers for $100 every time they pull them over. Ever been to Mexico?

I have. If we don't extend the rule of law to our officers, then that's where we're headed.
 
lol...it's not like cops are overpaid. We're lucky to find people who are willing to take that ****ty job, especially people who are not on the take or extorting drivers for $100 every time they pull them over. Ever been to Mexico?


I, for one, was not aware Mexico, nor any other nation besides the US had something called The United States Constitution but please, feel free to fill US all in on that ....
 
I have. If we don't extend the rule of law to our officers, then that's where we're headed.

If they take bribes, they get popped and sent away. If they shoot someone acting erratically or otherwise doing something odd, they usually get cleared. Remember that. Act accordingly when pulled over.
 
I, for one, was not aware Mexico, nor any other nation besides the US had something called The United States Constitution but please, feel free to fill US all in on that ....

lol...they used to hang people within 30 days of arrest under that same constitution. What's your point?
 
And yet a grand jury failed to indict...

Part of a continuing pattern of systemic failure. Our justice system is troubled; maybe it always has been.
 
If they take bribes, they get popped and sent away. If they shoot someone acting erratically or otherwise doing something odd, they usually get cleared. Remember that. Act accordingly when pulled over.

Yeah, it's so odd to be walking towards the other driver when an accident happened. :roll:
 
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