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Should Serious Criminals Die Faster?

J

JBG

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I am quoting two positions people have taken in the context of the care of the terminally ill. I wanted to discuss them in the context of law and order.
Discussion Position #1
On one end of the spectrum, you have some people that wouldn't pull the plug on a vegetable, then you have people like me on the other hand that would grind the majority of our prison population into dog food if given the choice. Like most things, the answer is probably somewhere in the middle.

Discussion Position #2
Can we include the incurable murderers who are living off taxpayer money in a prison while lifting weights and watching TV?
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In order to avoid a thread on terminal patient care from being derailed I decided to open a new thread. I am of a view that more people being arrested while engaging in murder or armed robbery, or pulling a weapon on an officer, need to die "accidentally" in the course of an arrest. We have a court system that is incapable of applying capital punishment in any logical or consistent manner. We have litigation over the efficacy of serum used in lethal injection.

While this foolishness proceeds we have large numbers of people who patently cannot be rehabilitated in prison. People who started on a life of crime in early childhood, who have never done anything positive or worthwhile, and almost certainly never will. The question basically is "why"?
 
JBG said:
I am quoting two positions people have taken in the context of the care of the terminally ill. I wanted to discuss them in the context of law and order.

In order to avoid a thread on terminal patient care from being derailed I decided to open a new thread. I am of a view that more people being arrested while engaging in murder or armed robbery, or pulling a weapon on an officer, need to die "accidentally" in the course of an arrest. We have a court system that is incapable of applying capital punishment in any logical or consistent manner. We have litigation over the efficacy of serum used in lethal injection.

While this foolishness proceeds we have large numbers of people who patently cannot be rehabilitated in prison. People who started on a life of crime in early childhood, who have never done anything positive or worthwhile, and almost certainly never will. The question basically is "why"?
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While you don't sound "very Liberal" at all, I concur.
 
Slingshot Bob said:
While you don't sound "very Liberal" at all, I concur.
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I happen to be an extreme leftist. If someone is caught and the act, especially if they shoot at cops, as they used to say in the Westerns, this person needs to die.
 
JBG said:
I happen to be an extreme leftist. If someone is caught and the act, especially if they shoot at cops, as they used to say in the Westerns, this person needs to die.
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Sounds very conservative, liberals would excuse the behavior on a disadvantaged child hood. Welcome!
 
JBG said:
I happen to be an extreme leftist. If someone is caught and the act, especially if they shoot at cops, as they used to say in the Westerns, this person needs to die.
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Okay, but not at the hands of the state.
I don't trust the government to pick up the garbage or mow the grass in the parks or fill potholes without screwups, graft and corruption. I sure as hell won't give the state the power of life and death over citizens. Anyone who would give that power to the government, in my opinion, has been drinking the Kool-Aide that makes them think the state can make things right.
And that's my liberalism talking.
 
Slingshot Bob said:
Sounds very conservative, liberals would excuse the behavior on a disadvantaged child hood. Welcome!
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I don't think you know what a liberal is.
 
Grand Mal said:
Okay, but not at the hands of the state.
I don't trust the government to pick up the garbage or mow the grass in the parks or fill potholes without screwups, graft and corruption. I sure as hell won't give the state the power of life and death over citizens. Anyone who would give that power to the government, in my opinion, has been drinking the Kool-Aide that makes them think the state can make things right.
And that's my liberalism talking.
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Certain transactions are better off not being official state policy. The state cannot officially sanction ex officio killing by police officers. But certain situations are blindingly obvious.

For example, Michael Brown's supporters went ballistic (some literally) when footage of Brown brutally shoving a cigar store clerk was released. All that it did was confirm the obvious; that Brown was a thug who thought nothing of society, order or constructive activity. Anyone who decides it's a good idea to reach inside a patrol car is either deranged, out of control, or hopelessly stupid. Of no use to themselves or society.
 
Slingshot Bob said:
If true, that would make 2 of us, liberals support abortion, but tend to be against the death penalty.
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That's true, about the death penalty, but not for the reasons you think.
Conservatives favour capital punishment because they favour a strong, stern Daddy state and trust that Daddy to make things right. Liberals oppose capital punishment because we don't trust the government to get anything right. We resist giving more power to the state and especially the power of life and death. Anyone who would give the state the right to execute citizens has a child-like faith in the state to make things right.
 
Grand Mal said:
That's true, about the death penalty, but not for the reasons you think.
Conservatives favour capital punishment because they favour a strong, stern Daddy state and trust that Daddy to make things right. Liberals oppose capital punishment because we don't trust the government to get anything right. We resist giving more power to the state and especially the power of life and death. Anyone who would give the state the right to execute citizens has a child-like faith in the state to make things right.
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I have more faith in a trained police officer than a multiple bank robber, on parole, firing at police officers.
 
Grand Mal said:
That's true, about the death penalty, but not for the reasons you think.
Conservatives favour capital punishment because they favour a strong, stern Daddy state and trust that Daddy to make things right. Liberals oppose capital punishment because we don't trust the government to get anything right. We resist giving more power to the state and especially the power of life and death. Anyone who would give the state the right to execute citizens has a child-like faith in the state to make things right.
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:rofl:spin:
 
JBG said:
I have more faith in a trained police officer than a multiple bank robber, on parole, firing at police officers.
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Okay, you're putting your faith in a man rather than the state.
That's liberalism.
 
Slingshot Bob said:
:rofl:spin:
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Damn. And here I was, thinking it might be worth my time engaging with you. Turns out you're just another lightweight dilettante with a library of smiley emoticons substituting for actually having something to say.
 
Grand Mal said:
Liberals . . . don't trust the government to get anything right. We resist giving more power to the state and especially the power of life and death.
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You have a lot of fellow "liberals" on this board all of this will be startling news to. Or perhaps I should welcome you to the libertarians.
 
Harshaw said:
You have a lot of fellow "liberals" on this board all of this will be startling news to. Or perhaps I should welcome you to the libertarians.
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I know who my fellow liberals are. Lots who claim to be liberals aren't and lots who claim not to be, are.
 
Grand Mal said:
I know who my fellow liberals are. Lots who claim to be liberals aren't and lots who claim not to be, are.
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Like I said, there will be a number on the board for whom it will be startling news, including many of your fellow Canadians.
 
I believe most criminals are mentally ill or have not been properly taught to coexist peacefully with others. I think we need to spend more time and money determining what is the real problem and fixing it. There is no question our jail system has done nothing to stop crime. The death penalty has not detoured violent crime in the states of Texas or Florida. I think rehabilitation and mental health facilities will solve more problems than our jails. The people I know who come out of prison are usually much worse than before they went in. Our Prisons take a minor problem and turn it into a nightmare. Putting dangerous people back on the streets because they have served their sentence is not a smart solution. While others may be successfully rehabilitated and could become productive members of society if given a chance.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
I believe most criminals are mentally ill or have not been properly taught to coexist peacefully with others. I think we need to spend more time and money determining what is the real problem and fixing it. There is no question our jail system has done nothing to stop crime. The death penalty has not detoured violent crime in the states of Texas or Florida. I think rehabilitation and mental health facilities will solve more problems than our jails. The people I know who come out of prison are usually much worse than before they went in. Our Prisons take a minor problem and turn it into a nightmare. Putting dangerous people back on the streets because they have served their sentence is not a smart solution. While others may be successfully rehabilitated and could become productive members of society if given a chance.
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Do you seriously think that the Boston killer highlighted in my OP was a candidate for rehabilitation. Even schizophrenics who aren't violent criminals don't stay on their meds and don't do well of their meds.
 
Harshaw said:
Like I said, there will be a number on the board for whom it will be startling news, including many of your fellow Canadians.
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I've been here awhile. I'm not likely to startle anyone who didn't just drop in lately.
I've been beating this drum whenever it needs to be heard- the word 'liberal' means what it means. I rely on the Oxford English Dictionary for my definitions but I don't argue with Merriam-Webster. I have no time for, meaning I just move on past anyone who tries to foist 'redefinition' or common usage of the word. I don't care what some right-wing low-functioning authoritarian calls 'liberal'. Everywhere in the English-speaking world people know what I mean when I say I'm liberal, except in some of the USA.
Not my problem.
 
Grand Mal said:
I've been here awhile. I'm not likely to startle anyone who didn't just drop in lately.
I've been beating this drum whenever it needs to be heard- the word 'liberal' means what it means. I rely on the Oxford English Dictionary for my definitions but I don't argue with Merriam-Webster. I have no time for, meaning I just move on past anyone who tries to foist 'redefinition' or common usage of the word. I don't care what some right-wing low-functioning authoritarian calls 'liberal'. Everywhere in the English-speaking world people know what I mean when I say I'm liberal, except in some of the USA.
Not my problem.
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Do you mean Liberal in the sense of the Liberal Party of Canada or the Liberal Party of British Columbia?
 
JBG said:
Do you mean Liberal in the sense of the Liberal Party of Canada or the Liberal Party of British Columbia?
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If I vote, I vote for the Liberal Party. If the Liberal leader or the party policy sound wrong, I sit it out. I was going to sit out the last federal election but the Conservative Party attack ads pissed me off so I voted.
I've got no one to vote for tomorrow in our provincial election.
 
Grand Mal said:
If I vote, I vote for the Liberal Party. If the Liberal leader or the party policy sound wrong, I sit it out. I was going to sit out the last federal election but the Conservative Party attack ads pissed me off so I voted.
I've got no one to vote for tomorrow in our provincial election.
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The NDP?
 
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