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Should Serious Criminals Die Faster?

_Sal said:
no Josie you are being disingenuous...you are attacking me for being liberal and saying I embrace big government...why do you say I embrace big government?.....well because I support universal health care...the problem is you know zero about universal health care and thus your conclusions are baseless

thus your assumptions are completely wrong...and when I push you on police and fire and schools you have no answer...why because millions of people have fire, police and educational opportunities...just like our health care

and when you take care of health problems early there is less expense to your society

YOU are all for government intervening in the bedroom and women's bodies but when it comes to health care........eeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwww, big government using funds to help another human being

you are terribly confused because there is a massive cultural difference between us and that is what you don't get

I am liberal...live with it
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You have really, really badly confused yourself.

Here's what Grand Mal said:

Liberals . . . don't trust the government to get anything right. We resist giving more power to the state and especially the power of life and death.
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Here's what you said about it:

_Sal said:
no

he is dead on
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_Sal said:
balony

he is right on
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_Sal said:
doesn't matter what a few self-described "liberals" don't mind "telling" us

you may well have a convenient definition of "liberal"

I am a liberal and I know exactly what that means...apparently you do not

his definition stands and is correct
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Since then, you've been doing NOTHING but arguing for giving more and more power to the state, and explaining why you trust the government, especially in matters of life or death, like health care. You even said:

_Sal said:
it is not a matter of distrusting the government either...it is about building one that works for us...
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Grand Mal said exactly the opposite. You know, when he said the thing YOU insisted was "dead on."

Plus, you say Americans don't understand Canadians, and Canadians see things differently, but you said you want "govermnent by the people, for the people," which is American concept, formulated in those words by an American.

Simply put . . . you have no idea what you're even saying from post to post.
 
_Sal said:
no Josie you are being disingenuous...you are attacking me for being liberal and saying I embrace big government...why do you say I embrace big government?.....well because I support universal health care...the problem is you know zero about universal health care and thus your conclusions are baseless
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Universal health care is government health care run by the government for millions of people. That is big government. Surely you're not claiming that is a SMALL government plan?

_Sal said:
thus your assumptions are completely wrong...and when I push you on police and fire and schools you have no answer...why because millions of people have fire, police and educational opportunities...just like our health care and when you take care of health problems early there is less expense to your society
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Um, I just gave you my answer on police, fire and schools. I said that was the local government's job -- not the federal government (which is what we're talking about). Are you lying or just so rattled that you don't remember anything I said?

_Sal said:
YOU are all for government intervening in the bedroom
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Quote it.

_Sal said:
and women's bodies
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Nope. Just for protecting the child's body.

_Sal said:
but when it comes to health care........eeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwww, big government using funds to help another human being
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These funds don't come from Mother Government out of the sky. This money is forced from the hands of people who worked for it.

_Sal said:
you are terribly confused because there is a massive cultural difference between us and that is what you don't get

I am liberal...live with it
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And I'm asking you to explain it. You say you're against a powerful government --- what IS a big, powerful government? So far you've only given me abortion and gays. That's it? Everything else a government does is small government with very little power?
 
Josie said:
Universal health care is government health care run by the government for millions of people. That is big government. Surely you're not claiming that is a SMALL government plan?



Um, I just gave you my answer on police, fire and schools. I said that was the local government's job -- not the federal government (which is what we're talking about). Are you lying or just so rattled that you don't remember anything I said?
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excuse me? I don't appreciate the personal comments and you do this constantly......your ignorance regarding health care is appalling

ours isn't federal



Quote it.



Nope. Just for protecting the child's body.



These funds don't come from Mother Government out of the sky. This money is forced from the hands of people who worked for it.



And I'm asking you to explain it. You say you're against a powerful government --- what IS a big, powerful government? So far you've only given me abortion and gays. That's it? Everything else a government does is small government with very little power?
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I am done with your ignorance and personal attacks...this is the second time you have done this in two different threads

I was right about you in the last thread but gave you a second chance........you won't get a third
 
_Sal said:
I am not as optimistic as you are about "curing" mental illness but I do agree the penal system creates more problems than it solves
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Right now we are clearly in our infancy when it comes to the brain and mental disorders. Not working towards solutions is clearly stupid. Doing the same thing (JAIL) which we no does not work over and over for thousands of years only proves how stupid we really are.

We incarcerate children. Look at your child and tell me this is the right answer. We try children as adults. I look at a 14 year old and I never see an adult.
 
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PIPEWRENCH said:
Right now we are clearly in our infancy when it comes to the brain and mental disorders. Not working towards solutions is clearly stupid. Doing the same thing (JAIL) which we no does not work over and over for thousands of years only proves how stupid we really are.

We incarcerate children. Look at your child and tell me this is the right answer. We try children as adults. I look at a 14 year old and I never see an adult.
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I can understand why they try a child as a child or escalate it to that of an adult crime. The problem is the crime itself is what must be considered. If a child commits a multiple homicide, it is still a multiple homicide regardless of the age of the perpetrator. The idea was to give allowance for "change" and circumstance.
 
_Sal said:
I am done with your ignorance and personal attacks...this is the second time you have done this in two different threads

I was right about you in the last thread but gave you a second chance........you won't get a third
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Um -- what personal attacks?
 
_Sal said:
I can understand why they try a child as a child or escalate it to that of an adult crime. The problem is the crime itself is what must be considered. If a child commits a multiple homicide, it is still a multiple homicide regardless of the age of the perpetrator. The idea was to give allowance for "change" and circumstance.
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In people 25 and younger you need to investigate circumstance that may have influenced the criminal behavior. Is their is a history of family violence, child abuse, drug and alcohol addiction that are the real cause of the criminal behavior. Unfortunately the people who should get a break and rehabilitation are the ones the system comes down on the hardest. It is the rich kids that were given every opportunity to succeed but went bad that get the lenient sentence and the mental help.
 
_Sal said:
now back to the OP

no I do not believe in vigilante justice...have I at times wished it were so or even thought it a good idea, yes, I have, but in practice it cannot be...
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It would not be a good idea if we funded the court system well enough that trials could occur meaningfully fast and appeals be briefed and ruled on in a crisp, businesslike manner. The problem is that doesn't happen and is unlikely to happen. The function of justice should be to deter crime. It's not much of a deterrence if a crime is adjudicated years down the road when witnesses have lost their memory or worse, been intimidated or killed. Then it comes down to a plea bargain and not very stern lecture from a swamped and uncaring judge.
 
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