Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk to

Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk to them

Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk to them | The Lens

Quote from linked article:
“Maybe in some places if you send a letter on the DA’s letterhead that says, ‘You need to come in and talk to us,’ … that is sufficient. It isn’t here,” he said. “That is why that looks as formal as it does.”

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And I bet they sit around and honestly wonder why people don't trust them.

Re: Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

I would be more alarmed if it was widespread. But one Parish in Louisiana? Not worth making a law over or anything. It should be reported in their local news tho, and the DA probably shouldn't run for another term.

Re: Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

The NO cops have long been out of control.

One might say that about many police departments and prosecutors, but NO has been especially corrupt for decades.

Re: Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

ThoughtEx. said:

I would be more alarmed if it was widespread. But one Parish in Louisiana? Not worth making a law over or anything. It should be reported in their local news tho, and the DA probably shouldn't run for another term.

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I don't think so. Police are allowed to lie to suspects and have been doing so in every police department since time immemorial. It is common police practice and always has been.

Re: Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

radcen said:

And I bet they sit around and honestly wonder why people don't trust them.

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A good piece of advice is to not talk to the cops without a lawyer. But how many of these people receiving fake subpoenas can hire a lawyer?

Re: Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

fmw said:

I don't think so. Police are allowed to lie to suspects and have been doing so in every police department since time immemorial. It is common police practice and always has been.

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This has nothing to do with the police. This is the DA's office, and it is technically illegal for them to misrepresent themselves when dealing with third party people like witnesses as they are officers of the court. They aren't protected by the same rule that allows cops to lie. The problem here that puts them in the gray area, is it was a practice already established and no one was ever charged for failing to appear.

Re: Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

ThoughtEx. said:

This has nothing to do with the police. This is the DA's office, and it is technically illegal for them to misrepresent themselves when dealing with third party people like witnesses as they are officers of the court. They aren't protected by the same rule that allows cops to lie. The problem here that puts them in the gray area, is it was a practice already established and no one was ever charged for failing to appear.

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I see. It motivates me to tell you a couple of true stories about my justice system experiences. One night while driving back to college I was stopped by a cop for crossing a double yellow line. It was 2 a.m. and there was no traffic other than me and the local cop. He lead me into the town of Atlantic, Iowa and put me in the police station pokey while he called the judge who was asleep at home. About an hour later the judge showed up and found me guilty of crossing the double yellow line. He exacted a fine which I refused to pay. He told me I would either pay or spend a week in the pokey. I opted for the pokey since I was being railroaded and didn't have the money to pay the fine. The judge was furious because the city would have to pay for my time in the pokey. I explained with as much deference as I could that I wasn't going to play along with a justice system that was doing nothing other raising money for the city. He told the cop to escort me out of time and suggested I never return to Atlantic. I never did.

On another occasion I needed to move a car I was restoring from one garage to another. The car wasn't finished and had no lights installed yet. I called the police department and asked for a dispensation to drive the car across town without any lights on a bright July day. The cop said it wouldn't be a problem. It was. I was ticketed for the lights during the trip. At the court the judge explained that the police had to right to recommend someone break the law. He exacted a fine. I told him that I agreed with him but I felt it was unfair since the the police department and the court were in the same justice system. Furthermore I caused no harm or danger to anyone. I refused to pay the fine and was sentenced to a week in the county jail. I asked if I could start the week on the upcoming Saturday and he agreed. When I arrived at the jail there was no record of my conviction. I went home remembering a similar situation in Atlantic, Iowa.

Re: Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

fmw said:

I see. It motivates me to tell you a couple of true stories about my justice system experiences. One night while driving back to college I was stopped by a cop for crossing a double yellow line. It was 2 a.m. and there was no traffic other than me and the local cop. He lead me into the town of Atlantic, Iowa and put me in the police station pokey while he called the judge who was asleep at home. About an hour later the judge showed up and found me guilty of crossing the double yellow line. He exacted a fine which I refused to pay. He told me I would either pay or spend a week in the pokey. I opted for the pokey since I was being railroaded and didn't have the money to pay the fine. The judge was furious because the city would have to pay for my time in the pokey. I explained with as much deference as I could that I wasn't going to play along with a justice system that was doing nothing other raising money for the city. He told the cop to escort me out of time and suggested I never return to Atlantic. I never did.

On another occasion I needed to move a car I was restoring from one garage to another. The car wasn't finished and had no lights installed yet. I called the police department and asked for a dispensation to drive the car across town without any lights on a bright July day. The cop said it wouldn't be a problem. It was. I was ticketed for the lights during the trip. At the court the judge explained that the police had to right to recommend someone break the law. He exacted a fine. I told him that I agreed with him but I felt it was unfair since the the police department and the court were in the same justice system. Furthermore I caused no harm or danger to anyone. I refused to pay the fine and was sentenced to a week in the county jail. I asked if I could start the week on the upcoming Saturday and he agreed. When I arrived at the jail there was no record of my conviction. I went home remembering a similar situation in Atlantic, Iowa.

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Thank you for sharing? I fail to see the connection between this and a DA's office issuing fake subpoenas. You will have to point it out me.

Re: Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

ThoughtEx. said:

Thank you for sharing? I fail to see the connection between this and a DA's office issuing fake subpoenas. You will have to point it out me.

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The justice system does some dumb things.

Re: Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

fmw said:

The justice system does some dumb things.

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No argument there. LoL

Re: Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

fmw said:

I see. It motivates me to tell you a couple of true stories about my justice system experiences. One night while driving back to college I was stopped by a cop for crossing a double yellow line. It was 2 a.m. and there was no traffic other than me and the local cop. He lead me into the town of Atlantic, Iowa and put me in the police station pokey while he called the judge who was asleep at home. About an hour later the judge showed up and found me guilty of crossing the double yellow line. He exacted a fine which I refused to pay. He told me I would either pay or spend a week in the pokey. I opted for the pokey since I was being railroaded and didn't have the money to pay the fine. The judge was furious because the city would have to pay for my time in the pokey. I explained with as much deference as I could that I wasn't going to play along with a justice system that was doing nothing other raising money for the city. He told the cop to escort me out of time and suggested I never return to Atlantic. I never did.

On another occasion I needed to move a car I was restoring from one garage to another. The car wasn't finished and had no lights installed yet. I called the police department and asked for a dispensation to drive the car across town without any lights on a bright July day. The cop said it wouldn't be a problem. It was. I was ticketed for the lights during the trip. At the court the judge explained that the police had to right to recommend someone break the law. He exacted a fine. I told him that I agreed with him but I felt it was unfair since the the police department and the court were in the same justice system. Furthermore I caused no harm or danger to anyone. I refused to pay the fine and was sentenced to a week in the county jail. I asked if I could start the week on the upcoming Saturday and he agreed. When I arrived at the jail there was no record of my conviction. I went home remembering a similar situation in Atlantic, Iowa.

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Great stories. I commend you for asserting your rights, many folks are not aware that one must assert one's rights if they are to mean anything.

Re: Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

ThoughtEx. said:

I would be more alarmed if it was widespread. But one Parish in Louisiana? Not worth making a law over or anything. It should be reported in their local news tho, and the DA probably shouldn't run for another term.

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You realize it's likely more than just one parrish in Louisiana right?

Re: Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

Thoreau72 said:

The NO cops have long been out of control.

One might say that about many police departments and prosecutors, but NO has been especially corrupt for decades.

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The NO cops don't have a habit of beating the crap out of people like the NYPD or LAPD. If anything I'd say the NO corruption is more with the lawyers and judges. A more sophisticated and less traceable manner of corruption.

Re: Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

reinoe said:

You realize it's likely more than just one parrish in Louisiana right?

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Source? I'd rather not assume, point fingers, and hurt the credibility of every DA in the State without proof. Kind of important people trust them to do their job.

Re: Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

ThoughtEx. said:

Source? I'd rather not assume, point fingers, and hurt the credibility of every DA in the State without proof. Kind of important people trust them to do their job.

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The Untouchables: America's Misbehaving Prosecutors, And The System That Protects Them | The Huffington Post

Re: Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

reinoe said:

The Untouchables: America's Misbehaving Prosecutors, And The System That Protects Them | The Huffington Post

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It's a good read, funny tho, you of all people went to HuffPo to get it. It's no secret that the justice system is corrupt and DA's don't care about guilt or innocence, only conviction rates. Didn't catch the part in their specifically stating it's common practice for every DA to use fake subpoena's. Which is the topic, and a step above the normal corruption I've actually seen you defend, several times, as business as usual.

People need to be able to trust subpoenas are real when they get them. Unless you can show multiple instances in different counties and Parrish's, I'd rather not make a big case about it in the media. The article you submitted has several concerns I'd rather address that are countrywide, let's get on those instead...

Re: Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

ThoughtEx. said:

It's a good read, funny tho, you of all people went to HuffPo to get it. It's no secret that the justice system is corrupt and DA's don't care about guilt or innocence, only conviction rates. Didn't catch the part in their specifically stating it's common practice for every DA to use fake subpoena's. Which is the topic, and a step above the normal corruption I've actually seen you defend, several times, as business as usual.

People need to be able to trust subpoenas are real when they get them. Unless you can show multiple instances in different counties and Parrish's, I'd rather not make a big case about it in the media. The article you submitted has several concerns I'd rather address that are countrywide, let's get on those instead...

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OK then. You go ahead an believe that NO parrish is the ONLY PARRISH in Louisiana issuing fake subpeonas and that it's definitely not happening in other areas with their DA's not getting caught yet.

On a tangent but I've said that during this election cycle the MSM has gone off the rails. The article was written in 2013. You can't even keep your facts straight when trying to impugn the character of the person your talking to. Good day to you.

Re: Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

reinoe said:

OK then. You go ahead an believe that NO parrish is the ONLY PARRISH in Louisiana issuing fake subpeonas and that it's definitely not happening in other areas with their DA's not getting caught yet.

On a tangent but I've said that during this election cycle the MSM has gone off the rails. The article was written in 2013. You can't even keep your facts straight when trying to impugn the character of the person your talking to. Good day to you.

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It's not about belief, it's what you can prove. Unless you can show evidence, throwing accusations at something only shows your hand. Allows them to cover up before evidence can be had. And could conceivably lead to people getting arrested for failing to appear when actually under a subpoena. It's not worth it without evidence.

Re: Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

ThoughtEx. said:

I would be more alarmed if it was widespread. But one Parish in Louisiana? Not worth making a law over or anything. It should be reported in their local news tho, and the DA probably shouldn't run for another term.

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One getting away with essentially no penalty at all is how things become widespread. If it is indeed illegal they should be slapped down for it. If it is not, maybe a law should be discussed since it is certainly questionable.

Re: Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

radcen said:

One getting away with essentially no penalty at all is how things become widespread. If it is indeed illegal they should be slapped down for it. If it is not, maybe a law should be discussed since it is certainly questionable.

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It falls under the current law that states officers of the court can't misrepresent themselves to third parties. Like witnesses. But, I wouldn't take it to court because a loss would, and it would be a loss because no judge is going to hang a single DA out to dry for this, sets a precedent in case law which will allow other DAs to do it without fear forever, everywhere. Right now, it is iffy. And until something like a class action can be brought to bear it would hurt way worse to press the issue. Best to alert Watchdog groups and check other places quietly.

Re: Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

ThoughtEx. said:

It falls under the current law that states officers of the court can't misrepresent themselves to third parties. Like witnesses. But, I wouldn't take it to court because a loss would, and it would be a loss because no judge is going to hang a single DA out to dry for this, sets a precedent in case law which will allow other DAs to do it without fear forever, everywhere. Right now, it is iffy. And until something like a class action can be brought to bear it would hurt way worse to press the issue. Best to alert Watchdog groups and check other places quietly.

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What good is an existing law if it is afraid to be used? If one considers this scenario to be ethically wrong, and the current law is weak to the point of being useless, then that's an argument for a tougher and more direct law.

Re: Orleans Parish prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

radcen said:

What good is an existing law if it is afraid to be used? If one considers this scenario to be ethically wrong, and the current law is weak to the point of being useless, then that's an argument for a tougher and more direct law.

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It's not fear, it's common sense. If you positive you're going to lose when you lay down your bet, why make the bet. Wait for the right time when the odds are in your favor, then lay down the bet. Plus, how do we know this guy isn't all buddy buddy with the States Attorney's office. The people who would have to bring up the charges. Our legal system is the opposite of cut and dry. For something like this, you need to hedge your bets. Otherwise you are only setting yourself up as a target when they beat you and decide to clap back. And giving them a win on this in court would set a precedent in case law. Which would open the practice up to every other DA in the country legally. As in this guy did it, the judge ruled he could, so we can to. That's how our legal system works. Judges ruling based on precedents set by previous cases. It would be the height of stupidity, the utter height to pursue this if your goal is to make sure no one else will commit the crime.

It'd be nice to punish every corrupt politician, but they tend to not play by the rules.