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Can People Shoot ICE Agents?

calamity said:
I understand that you would accept ICE's claim. I do not. ICE can go **** themselves. As a citizen, they can kiss my ass. They have no authority over me, and i do not accept their claim that they are police.
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Your OPINION is noted....

po·lice
pəˈlēs/
noun
plural noun: police

1.
the civil force of a national or local government, responsible for the prevention and detection of crime and the maintenance of public order.
synonyms: police force, police officers, policemen, policewomen, officers of the law, law officers, authorities, constabulary; More
 
Fledermaus said:
Your OPINION is noted....
Click to expand...

I believe I am beginning to understand how we've allowed ourselves to become a police state. Most Americans are sheep.

"Gee, the ICE guy said he was police. I guess he is then." SMH.
 
calamity said:
I believe I am beginning to understand how we've allowed ourselves to become a police state. Most Americans are sheep.

"Gee, the ICE guy said he was police. I guess he is then." SMH.
Click to expand...

po·lice
pəˈlēs/
noun
plural noun: police

1.
the civil force of a national or local government, responsible for the prevention and detection of crime and the maintenance of public order.
synonyms: police force, police officers, policemen, policewomen, officers of the law, law officers, authorities, constabulary; More
 
calamity said:
Yeah, but when the real cops come to get the bank robber--assume my wife robbed a bank and there is a warrant for her arrest---they have a court order to enter my home and drag her off. ICE is not operating this way, from what I have read so far.
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Ah, but they are operating under the law. And the law supersedes your emotions, like it or not.
 
calamity said:
Define "arresting her." In real life, a cop would show me a warrant for her arrest. Without one, I do not believe they fan force anyone to comply.
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No he can't just take her away. She'd have to be arrested - either with or without a warrant.
 
jamesrage said:
Can you shoot other law enforcement agents who arrest someone in your family?
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:coffeepap

jamesrage said:
I agree with this new law.If someone enters your home illegally then they should be dealt with, it should not matter if that person is a regular civilian or a police officer. Illegal entry shouldn't be tolerated just because the person is a law enforcement official. If they are entering your home legally then they should be able to announce and present a warrant.
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https://www.debatepolitics.com/law-...-citizens-shoot-law-enforcement-officers.html

https://www.debatepolitics.com/gun-...pells-out-indianans-may-open-fire-police.html

https://www.debatepolitics.com/brea...na-gun-law-allows-residents-shoot-police.html

:popcorn2:

.....SECTION 1. IC 35-41-3-2, AS AMENDED BY P.L.189-2006, SECTION 1, IS AMENDED TO READ AS FOLLOWS [EFFECTIVE UPON PASSAGE]: Sec. 2. (a) In enacting this section, the general assembly finds and declares that it is the policy of this state to recognize the unique character of a citizen's home and to ensure that a citizen feels secure in his or her own home against unlawful intrusion by another individual or a public servant. By reaffirming the long standing right of a citizen to protect his or her home against unlawful intrusion, however, the general assembly does not intend to diminish in any way the other robust self defense rights that citizens of this state have always enjoyed. Accordingly, the general assembly also finds and declares that it is the policy of this state that people have a right to defend themselves and third parties from physical harm and crime. The purpose of this section is to provide the citizens of this state with a lawful means of carrying out this policy......

........(i) A person is justified in using reasonable force against a public servant if the person reasonably believes the force is necessary to:
(1) protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force;
(2) prevent or terminate the public servant's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle; or
(3) prevent or terminate the public servant's unlawful trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully in the person's possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the person's immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property the person has authority to protect.
(j) Notwithstanding subsection (i), a person is not justified in using force against a public servant if:
(1) the person is committing or is escaping after the commission of a crime;
(2) the person provokes action by the public servant with intent to cause bodily injury to the public servant;
(3) the person has entered into combat with the public servant or is the initial aggressor, unless the person withdraws from the encounter and communicates to the public servant the intent to do so and the public servant nevertheless continues

or threatens to continue unlawful action; or
(4) the person reasonably believes the public servant is:
(A) acting lawfully; or
(B) engaged in the lawful execution of the public servant's official duties.
(k) A person is not justified in using deadly force against a public servant whom the person knows or reasonably should know is a public servant unless:
(1) the person reasonably believes that the public servant is:
(A) acting unlawfully; or
(B) not engaged in the execution of the public servant's official duties; and
(2) the force is reasonably necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person.
SECTION 2. An emergency is declared for this act......

Enrolled Act, Senate Bill 0001
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Looks like we got a real badass here!

ICE/HSI is the investigative arm of Homeland Security charged with crimes involving immigration, customs, sex trafficking, child pornography, intellectual property theft, trading in sensitive technology, money laundering, identity fraud, passport fraud, financial fraud, arms trafficking, terrorism, drug smuggling, and national security. You don't have to be an alien for ICE/HSI to arrest you for any crime against the United States.

The statutory authority of ICE agents and officers now falls under two Titles of the US Code after the merger of INS and Customs into one investigation agency now known as ICE and also Homeland Security Investigations (HSI).

8 U.S. Code § 1357 - Powers of immigration officers

(5) to make arrests—
(A) for any offense against the United States, if the offense is committed in the officer’s or employee’s presence, or
(B) for any felony cognizable under the laws of the United States, if the officer or employee has reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing such a felony

Under regulations prescribed by the Attorney General, an officer or employee of the Service may carry a firearm and may execute and serve any order, warrant, subpoena, summons, or other process issued under the authority of the United States.

19 U.S. Code § 1589a - Enforcement authority of customs officers

Subject to the direction of the Secretary of the Treasury, an officer of the customs may—
(1) carry a firearm;
(2) execute and serve any order, warrant, subpena, summons, or other process issued under the authority of the United States;
(3) make an arrest without a warrant for any offense against the United States committed in the officer’s presence or for a felony, cognizable under the laws of the United States committed outside the officer’s presence if the officer has reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing a felony; and
(4) perform any other law enforcement duty that the Secretary of the Treasury may designate.


Are they police?

POLICE - the civil force of a national or local government, responsible for the prevention and detection of crime and the maintenance of public order.

Hell, they look pretty policey to me...

6a00d8341c630a53ef01630520dfeb970d-pi


100203houston_lg.jpg


ICE-Special-Response-Team-Training-1.jpg
 
ICE has to have a warrant to enter your home without permission. There are a couple exceptions to that, such as they are in hot pursuit.

If ICE, or regular police, break into your home without a warrant it is an unlawful entry and legally you can treat it like a home invasion and use lethal force.

But you will most likely die. What is legal and what is wise aren't always the same. If you are walking down the street and 6 armed men point guns at you and tell you to give them your wallet, legally you could pull your concealed sidearm and try to shoot them all before they shoot you. But it would be very stupid given the odds.
 
Brewdog said:
Looks like we got a real badass here!
Click to expand...

BrewerBob said:
ICE has to have a warrant to enter your home without permission. There are a couple exceptions to that, such as they are in hot pursuit.

If ICE, or regular police, break into your home without a warrant it is an unlawful entry and legally you can treat it like a home invasion and use lethal force.

But you will most likely die. What is legal and what is wise aren't always the same. If you are walking down the street and 6 armed men point guns at you and tell you to give them your wallet, legally you could pull your concealed sidearm and try to shoot them all before they shoot you. But it would be very stupid given the odds.
Click to expand...

You know you guys have almost the same name and the same damn avatar is confusing the crap outta me. :)
 
Gaius46 said:
You know you guys have almost the same name and the same damn avatar is confusing the crap outta me. :)
Click to expand...

I know. Bob is ****ing with me hard.
 
Brewdog said:
Looks like we got a real badass here!

ICE/HSI is the investigative arm of Homeland Security charged with crimes involving immigration, customs, sex trafficking, child pornography, intellectual property theft, trading in sensitive technology, money laundering, identity fraud, passport fraud, financial fraud, arms trafficking, terrorism, drug smuggling, and national security. You don't have to be an alien for ICE/HSI to arrest you for any crime against the United States.

The statutory authority of ICE agents and officers now falls under two Titles of the US Code after the merger of INS and Customs into one investigation agency now known as ICE and also Homeland Security Investigations (HSI).

8 U.S. Code § 1357 - Powers of immigration officers

(5) to make arrests—
(A) for any offense against the United States, if the offense is committed in the officer’s or employee’s presence, or
(B) for any felony cognizable under the laws of the United States, if the officer or employee has reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing such a felony

Under regulations prescribed by the Attorney General, an officer or employee of the Service may carry a firearm and may execute and serve any order, warrant, subpoena, summons, or other process issued under the authority of the United States.

19 U.S. Code § 1589a - Enforcement authority of customs officers

Subject to the direction of the Secretary of the Treasury, an officer of the customs may—
(1) carry a firearm;
(2) execute and serve any order, warrant, subpena, summons, or other process issued under the authority of the United States;
(3) make an arrest without a warrant for any offense against the United States committed in the officer’s presence or for a felony, cognizable under the laws of the United States committed outside the officer’s presence if the officer has reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing a felony; and
(4) perform any other law enforcement duty that the Secretary of the Treasury may designate.


Are they police?

POLICE - the civil force of a national or local government, responsible for the prevention and detection of crime and the maintenance of public order.

Hell, they look pretty policey to me...

6a00d8341c630a53ef01630520dfeb970d-pi


100203houston_lg.jpg


ICE-Special-Response-Team-Training-1.jpg
Click to expand...

That [those pictures] pisses me off. How have we allowed ourselves to become such a militarized nation? I sure am glad I will only be around for 20-30 more years or so.
 
Brewdog said:
Looks like we got a real badass here!

ICE/HSI is the investigative arm of Homeland Security charged with crimes involving immigration, customs, sex trafficking, child pornography, intellectual property theft, trading in sensitive technology, money laundering, identity fraud, passport fraud, financial fraud, arms trafficking, terrorism, drug smuggling, and national security. You don't have to be an alien for ICE/HSI to arrest you for any crime against the United States.

The statutory authority of ICE agents and officers now falls under two Titles of the US Code after the merger of INS and Customs into one investigation agency now known as ICE and also Homeland Security Investigations (HSI).

8 U.S. Code § 1357 - Powers of immigration officers

(5) to make arrests—
(A) for any offense against the United States, if the offense is committed in the officer’s or employee’s presence, or
(B) for any felony cognizable under the laws of the United States, if the officer or employee has reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing such a felony

Under regulations prescribed by the Attorney General, an officer or employee of the Service may carry a firearm and may execute and serve any order, warrant, subpoena, summons, or other process issued under the authority of the United States.

19 U.S. Code § 1589a - Enforcement authority of customs officers

Subject to the direction of the Secretary of the Treasury, an officer of the customs may—
(1) carry a firearm;
(2) execute and serve any order, warrant, subpena, summons, or other process issued under the authority of the United States;
(3) make an arrest without a warrant for any offense against the United States committed in the officer’s presence or for a felony, cognizable under the laws of the United States committed outside the officer’s presence if the officer has reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing a felony; and
(4) perform any other law enforcement duty that the Secretary of the Treasury may designate.


Are they police?

POLICE - the civil force of a national or local government, responsible for the prevention and detection of crime and the maintenance of public order.

Hell, they look pretty policey to me...

6a00d8341c630a53ef01630520dfeb970d-pi


100203houston_lg.jpg


ICE-Special-Response-Team-Training-1.jpg
Click to expand...

ICE is unquestionably a police force. The problem that LA has is that the locals are confusing them with the LAPD, which, according to the city, is causing problems in LAPD-citizen relations because of the heavy handed tactics ICE uses. ICE should comply with the request since, afterall, they are operating in a sovereign state.
 
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Gaius46 said:
You know you guys have almost the same name and the same damn avatar is confusing the crap outta me. :)
Click to expand...

Brewdog said:
I know. Bob is ****ing with me hard.
Click to expand...

The name is a coincidence, though I might note I was here first. Copying my avatar is a little joke Brewdog is pulling on me that has gone on much longer than I expected.
 
Gaius46 said:
ICE is unquestionably a police force. The problem that LA has is that the locals are confusing them with the LAPD, which, according to the city, is causing problems in LAPD-citizen relations because of the heavy handed tactics ICE uses. ICE should comply with the request since, afterall, the operating in a sovereign state.
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I've spent some time in LA. I don't want anyone from Los Angeles lecturing anyone else about heavy handed police tactics.

And as the OP's article stated, ICE agents wear police in big letters on their clothing to identify themselves as police for safety reasons. The word police is universally understood easily in other languages. They yell police while breaking in a door to serve a warrant. They are trained to do these things all througout the academy because it's CRITICAL that people understand they are the POLICE. No excuses about BooBoo thinking it was Kiko coming to steal his drugs. It's purposeful and it's perfectly proper and legal. What are they supposed to yell: "Homeland Security Investigations Federal Agents" in three different languages while entering a home? Or can they just yell police police police police!!

LA is pissed about ICE because LA is a crime-infested cesspool full of illegal criminal aliens and gangbangers. They can be pissed all they want in LA LA Land and it's not going to make ICE agents stop identifying themselves as police.
 
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BrewerBob said:
The name is a coincidence, though I might note I was here first. Copying my avatar is a little joke Brewdog is pulling on me that has gone on much longer than I expected.
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It's like a bag of uneaten chips that have been left out for 8 months. :)
 
calamity said:
Yeah, but at what point does my right to defend my castle end? Clearly if some stranger came to my home and tried to drag off my wife, I would be in the right to kill him. Are ICE agents somehow immune to this? It seems this is not clear, based on what I read in the article.
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That's a grossly false comparison. You are tying to conflate ICE agents with criminals. Sorry, but this lame attempt at trying to make it sound like ICE agents are criminals just isn't going to fly...
 
faithful_servant said:
That's a grossly false comparison. You are tying to conflate ICE agents with criminals. Sorry, but this lame attempt at trying to make it sound like ICE agents are criminals just isn't going to fly...
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Some of us do see jack-booted thugs as criminals, even if they are working for the government.

I'm sure you felt much the same when Obama was running things. :roll:
 
calamity said:
That [those pictures] pisses me off. How have we allowed ourselves to become such a militarized nation?
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You don't want the people that investigate terrorism and gangs and drug traffickers and weapons dealers to have any firearms or Kevlar protection? My, aren't you mighty loose with someone else's life.
 
calamity said:
Without Warrants, Immigration Agents Often Pose As Police Officers : NPR

:roll:
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Read Rubin's original story and you'll see that this tactic is used in "sanctuary cities" where illegal immigrants think that they are free to flout our laws and the local LE won't do anything about it. ICE has taken advantage of their naivete' in this area and used it to round up more criminals. I think that it's a great tactic. If a city wants to make their LE officers ignore Fed. crimes, then the Feds should be allowed to do anything legal (and this tactic is legal) to handle the situation without them. My suggestion would be for all illegal immigrants to get VERY well educated on these matters so that they'll know when to run and when to offer the nice officer (who in most cases would prefer to be making an arrest, but aren't allowed to) a freshly made pupusa. Better ask for ID before you whip out that pupusa....
 
calamity said:
ICE is not a legit police force though. They only have jurisdiction over non-citizens. If I'm a citizen, they can kiss my ass.
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Wrong. ICE agents also have as part their job, the investigation and arrest of American citizens assisting illegal immigration. So the answer to your question is that they can arrest your ass, not kiss it.
 
faithful_servant said:
Read Rubin's original story and you'll see that this tactic is used in "sanctuary cities" where illegal immigrants think that they are free to flout our laws and the local LE won't do anything about it. ICE has taken advantage of their naivete' in this area and used it to round up more criminals. I think that it's a great tactic. If a city wants to make their LE officers ignore Fed. crimes, then the Feds should be allowed to do anything legal (and this tactic is legal) to handle the situation without them. My suggestion would be for all illegal immigrants to get VERY well educated on these matters so that they'll know when to run and when to offer the nice officer (who in most cases would prefer to be making an arrest, but aren't allowed to) a freshly made pupusa. Better ask for ID before you whip out that pupusa....
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The Feds do not have jurisdiction in US cities. Funny how you small government guys suddenly support big government when it's your side that is running the government.
 
calamity said:
False. If the LEO enters your home without a warrant, you can shoot them. Ask the survivors of the David Karesh crew who shot at the ATF agents. They were all acquitted...the ones who lived.
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If an ICE officer tells you that he's "the police" (which is legal) and you open the door and invite him in because you've been told that the police aren't going to arrest you and you welcome an ICE agent into your home - TOO BAD.
Jail.jpg
 
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