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Arizona Bill to Crack Down on Rioters Could Be Used to Shut Down Protests

I don't like the idea of charging protest organizers with racketeering. that's too extreme, and in many cases you can't control who decides to show up at your rally to cause trouble.

It's like the mayday protests every year in Seattle, there's a group that protests for amnesty for illegal immigrants, they're normally behaved and follow their protest permit, it's the anti capitalists that show up afterward who smash windows and shutdown streets. going after the permit holder is not appropriate there IMO.

The problem is really enforcement, we need more civil immunity for law enforcement dealing with a riot. riots can be rolled up really quick if the cops were simply allowed to deal with it without political considerations. baton charges and volley fire of beanbag rounds were very effective riot techniques but the police can't really do those any more. just in my opinion of course.

going after first amendment by taking away protestors property: No

give the cops the tools and political cover to stop a riot once it's started: yes
 
Helix said:
before we waste time on a pointless back and forth, do you support this? :



Plan a Protest, Lose Your House: Arizona Senate Passes SB 1142 Charging 'Provocateurs' With Racketeeing | Phoenix New Times
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So some dope with green hair at the New Times is now an expert on constitutional law. If that urban throwaway has any use at all, it is for swatting flies or lining the bottom of a bird cage. Please tell us what is so surprising about the fact that a person does not have to take part in an unlawful violent act to be guilty of conspiracy to commit that act.

I applaud the great state of Arizona for leading the effort to punish anti-American commie rioters.
 
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radcen said:
Arizona Bill to Crack Down on Rioters Could Be Used to Shut Down Protests

Arizona Bill to Crack Down on Rioters Could Be Used to Shut Down Protests - Hit & Run : Reason.com

And another article on the same subject...

Plan a Protest, Lose Your House: Arizona Senate Passes SB 1142 Charging 'Provocateurs' With Racketeering

Plan a Protest, Lose Your House: Arizona Senate Passes SB 1142 Charging 'Provocateurs' With Racketeeing | Phoenix New Times
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If there is a peaceful protest there will be NOTYHING to worry about BUT if you want to terrorize the community , destroy property , burn cars , and loot then you should be locked up and pay the price !
 
VanceMack said:
Guess you better make sure when you are organizing a protest that people understand the rules, huh? Unfortunately...far too many rabid leftist ****heads have gone and ****ed it up for everyone. Too ****ing bad. Own your actions.
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I marched in the Women's March in Phoenix. It was huge. If someone two blocks away in the same march had broken window of a storefront I would never had known it. But under Arizona Teapublican proposed law I could be arrested on a felony and have all my property seized if such a thing happened. You see nothing wrong with that kind of law?
 
matchlight said:
Please tell us what is so surprising about the fact that a person does not have to take part in an unlawful violent act to be guilty of conspiracy to commit that act. I applaud the great state of Arizona for leading the effort to punish anti-American commie rioters.
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i'm sure that you do. and i'm sure that you won't when someone who organizes a right wing event in which someone commits a crime has his property seized. but that will be different because different.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
I don't like the idea of charging protest organizers with racketeering. that's too extreme, and in many cases you can't control who decides to show up at your rally to cause trouble.

It's like the mayday protests every year in Seattle, there's a group that protests for amnesty for illegal immigrants, they're normally behaved and follow their protest permit, it's the anti capitalists that show up afterward who smash windows and shutdown streets. going after the permit holder is not appropriate there IMO.

The problem is really enforcement, we need more civil immunity for law enforcement dealing with a riot. riots can be rolled up really quick if the cops were simply allowed to deal with it without political considerations. baton charges and volley fire of beanbag rounds were very effective riot techniques but the police can't really do those any more. just in my opinion of course.

going after first amendment by taking away protestors property: No

give the cops the tools and political cover to stop a riot once it's started: yes
Click to expand...

Or we can use this law to put a stop to people planning riots.
 
Helix said:
i'm sure that you do. and i'm sure that you won't when someone who organizes a right wing event in which someone commits a crime has his property seized. but that will be different because different.
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If the application of this law depended on the political views of the people to which it was applied, it would be unconstitutional. And unlike the anti-American commies who have been engaging in these riots, I strongly support the Constitution.
 
Socrates1 said:
If there is a peaceful protest there will be NOTYHING to worry about BUT if you want to terrorize the community , destroy property , burn cars , and loot then you should be locked up and pay the price !
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But as exemplified by liberals support of high taxes, eminent domain, and the welfare state; they have no respect for other people's property. That's why an Arizona is there is a protest to put a stop to the deportation of an illegal immigrant who was engaged and identity fraud and theft. Liberals in Arizona support identity theft, fraud, and as this thread shows, planning riots as well.
 
reinoe said:
Or we can use this law to put a stop to people planning riots.
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I seriously doubt most of these event planners planned for their events to become riots.
 
Master PO said:
how about you lose you drivers license for a year if you engage in unlawful behavior while protesting.
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I doubt that would stop someone from protesting or driving. At least in AZ.:mrgreen:
 
reinoe said:
But as exemplified by liberals support of high taxes, eminent domain, and the welfare state; they have no respect for other people's property. That's why an Arizona is there is a protest to put a stop to the deportation of an illegal immigrant who was engaged and identity fraud and theft. Liberals in Arizona support identity theft, fraud, and as this thread shows, planning riots as well.
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Not to worry Trump will handle those criminals swiftly ! :lol:
 
matchlight said:
So some dope with green hair at the New Times is now an expert on constitutional law. If that urban throwaway has any use at all, it is for swatting flies or lining the bottom of a bird cage. Please tell us what is so surprising about the fact that a person does not have to take part in an unlawful violent act to be guilty of conspiracy to commit that act.

I applaud the great state of Arizona for leading the effort to punish anti-American commie rioters.
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So rather than address the facts, you impugn the author.

How Trump-esque.
 
reinoe said:
But as exemplified by liberals support of high taxes, eminent domain, and the welfare state; they have no respect for other people's property. That's why an Arizona is there is a protest to put a stop to the deportation of an illegal immigrant who was engaged and identity fraud and theft. Liberals in Arizona support identity theft, fraud, and as this thread shows, planning riots as well.
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News in AZ sometimes mentions the mother who was recently deported did commit id theft to get a job. However, the story focuses more on how she has been separated from her family rather than the fact her parents brought her to the US illegally when she was a teenager breaking the law. Then her breaking the law by using a false SSN. News and some liberals are only interested in the emotional aspect of the issue of illegal immigration.
 
beefheart said:
So rather than address the facts, you impugn the author.

How Trump-esque.
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What facts would you like to debate with me? I don't see anything constitutionally objectionable about this law. If you do, you have not yet stated clearly how you think it violates the Constitution.
 
matchlight said:
If the application of this law depended on the political views of the people to which it was applied, it would be unconstitutional. And unlike the anti-American commies who have been engaging in these riots, I strongly support the Constitution.
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you support seizing the property of people who organize protests even if they don't personally commit a crime. i find that position abhorrent, and i don't see a good reason to continue this exchange.
 
Helix said:
before we waste time on a pointless back and forth, do you support this? :

Plan a Protest, Lose Your House: Arizona Senate Passes SB 1142 Charging 'Provocateurs' With Racketeeing | Phoenix New Times
Click to expand...

I certainly support severe penalties imposed on those who organize and help finance destructive, dangerous, violent riots. "The Plan a Protest, Lose Your House" is an extreme and dishonest interpretation of the law as I read it. But it is high time that these hateful, dangerous, destructive, and sometimes deadly organized riots were reined in and those organizing and participating in them suffering real consequences. Terrorist groups can already be prosecuted under RICO laws and certainly organizers and participants in these violent riots are committing terrorism.

So those who wish to stage a peaceful demonstration better make sure that the trouble makers are not welcome. Our right to protest does not include a right to destroy, assault, terrorize others.
 
Helix said:
you support seizing the property of people who organize protests even if they don't personally commit a crime. i find that position abhorrent, and i don't see a good reason to continue this exchange.
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Do you feel the same on someone who organizes a theft but doesn't personally do the act of the theft?

imo, organizers of protest have some culpability in the behavior and acts of the protesters. They are the ones that organized it, right?
 
Helix said:
you support seizing the property of people who organize protests even if they don't personally commit a crime. i find that position abhorrent, and i don't see a good reason to continue this exchange.
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You're presenting a false argument and you know it. If a protest organizer holds a meeting that include instructions on how to create Molotov cocktails, how to circumnavigate riot control procedures, which businesses do not have insurance, hands out facemasks to prevent identification, and brass knuckles; but don't actually participate in the "peaceful protest that just happened to turn violent" they are still very much responsible for whatever violence breaks out.
 
AlbqOwl said:
I certainly support severe penalties imposed on those who organize and help finance destructive, dangerous, violent riots. "The Plan a Protest, Lose Your House" is an extreme and dishonest interpretation of the law as I read it. But it is high time that these hateful, dangerous, destructive, and sometimes deadly organized riots were reined in and those organizing and participating in them suffering real consequences. Terrorist groups can already be prosecuted under RICO laws and certainly organizers and participants in these violent riots are committing terrorism.

So those who wish to stage a peaceful demonstration better make sure that the trouble makers are not welcome.
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this law is designed to crush dissent. that is sickening. even if it turns around and bites the people who support it in the ass, it will still be sickening. if some tea party idiots have a march and a couple of them do some dumb ****, do you support seizing the ringleader's house? i sure don't. that's flat out unAmerican, though i'm beginning to wonder what that even means anymore.
 
mike2810 said:
Do you feel the same on someone who organizes a theft but doesn't personally do the act of the theft?

imo, organizers of protest have some culpability in the behavior and acts of the protesters. They are the ones that organized it, right?
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FFS. this is unbelievable. someone who organizes a protest cannot be held responsible for every single person who shows up. you guys pretend to love the founding fathers, but in practice, you would label them as terrorists and steal their houses and businesses in retaliation. why can't you see that?
 
Helix said:
this law is designed to crush dissent. that is sickening. even if it turns around and bites the people who support it in the ass, it will still be sickening. if some tea party idiots have a march and a couple of them do some dumb ****, do you support seizing the ringleader's house? i sure don't. that's flat out unAmerican, though i'm beginning to wonder what that even means anymore.
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I just don't see it that way. I am horrified and appalled at the cultural tolerance for the most hateful and destructive violence that I have seen demonstrated in my city and many others who burn, loot, destroy, vandalize, commit assault, commit battery, and obstruct businesses and block traffic all in the name of silencing somebody or preventing people from being able to attend an event to hear a speaker without being bullied, harassed, threatened, assaulted or attacked.

It is high time that peaceful, law abiding people are allowed to speak, hear a speaker, and yes even peacefully demonstrate or protest something without fear that thugs and hoodlums will show up to create a riot.

I see the Arizona law as being a great first step in restoring rights and protections to law abiding citizens and returning some degree of civility and honor to the political process. If there are components in the law that create unintended negative consequences, I have confidence that the law makers will recognize and correct that.

But shutting down violent protests I cannot see as anything but a very good thing.
 
AlbqOwl said:
I just don't see it that way. I am horrified and appalled at the cultural tolerance for the most hateful and destructive violence that I have seen demonstrated in my city and many others who burn, loot, destroy, vandalize, commit assault, commit battery, and obstruct businesses and block traffic all in the name of silencing somebody or preventing people from being able to attend an event to hear a speaker without being bullied, harassed, threatened, assaulted or attacked.

It is high time that peaceful, law abiding people are allowed to speak, hear a speaker, and yes even demonstrate or protest something without fear that thugs and hoodlums will show up to create a riot.

I see the Arizona law as being a great first step in restoring right to law abiding citizens and returning some degree of civility and honor to the political process. If there are components in the law that create unintended negative consequences, I have confidence that the law makers will recognize and correct that.

But shutting down violent protests I cannot see as anything but a very good thing.
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it doesn't matter if you personally see it that way. you're supporting stealing the property of someone who organizes a protest even if that person doesn't do anything wrong. the only result of something like that is dissent being crushed. you understand that the other side will someday be in power, right? do you really want to give them that tool?
 
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