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In Chicago, Do Not Go Home For Christmas

calamity

calamity

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...if you are a gangbanger.

Chicago killings: 12 die in Christmas weekend violence - CNN.com

"These were deliberate and planned shootings by one gang against another," Johnson said Monday. "They were targeted knowing fully well that individuals would be at the homes of family and friends celebrating the holidays. This was followed by several acts of retaliation."
Click to expand...

I guess the "holiday truce" is a thing of the past.
 
calamity said:
...if you are a gangbanger.

Chicago killings: 12 die in Christmas weekend violence - CNN.com



I guess the "holiday truce" is a thing of the past.
Click to expand...
Well, this says it all:

"Ninety percent of those killed had gang affiliation, criminal history and had been identified as potential offenders or victims of gun violence, said Johnson."

There's so much to love about Chicago. In per capita terms it's about mid-pack in crime & violence, and this stuff going down is mainly limited to a few select neighborhoods. But dayem, do regular headlines like this give the city a black-eye on the national stage! :(
 
Chomsky said:
Well, this says it all:

"Ninety percent of those killed had gang affiliation, criminal history and had been identified as potential offenders or victims of gun violence, said Johnson."

There's so much to love about Chicago. In per capita terms it's about mid-pack in crime & violence, and this stuff going down is mainly limited to a few select neighborhoods. But dayem, do regular headlines like this give the city a black-eye on the national stage! :(
Click to expand...

I've been trying to find out what the hell is happening. Seems to be mostly a result of turf wars for drugs, primarily displaced gangs which were moved from the housing projects out into the neighborhoods fighting for corners and drug houses.

Other factors I read about, but could not confirm:

1. Gang leaders are all in jail and the young bucks are running wild, shooting first and negotiating nothing
2. Guns being dumped on the street by the crate-full by illegal fire arms dealers
3. Police no-go zones resulting from a few publicized police shootings sparking near riots and prosecutions.
 
calamity said:
I've been trying to find out what the hell is happening. Seems to be mostly a result of turf wars for drugs, primarily displaced gangs which were moved from the housing projects out into the neighborhoods fighting for corners and drug houses.

Other factors I read about, but could not confirm:

1. Gang leaders are all in jail and the young bucks are running wild, shooting first and negotiating nothing
2. Guns being dumped on the street by the crate-full by illegal fire arms dealers
3. Police no-go zones resulting from a few publicized police shootings sparking near riots and prosecutions.
Click to expand...
I'd say you pretty much nailed it, here. Seriously.

The thing is: Except for some smash & grabs and the occasional car hijacking by perps from the gang neighborhoods that venture out for financial gain, the rest of the city and all the 'burbs but the immediate south 'burbs are reasonably crime free.

But I'm really not sure what can be done about the gang neighborhoods, because they really are desolate war zones. The old slur "where life is cheap" truly applies there!
 
Chomsky said:
There's so much to love about Chicago. In per capita terms it's about mid-pack in crime & violence, and this stuff going down is mainly limited to a few select neighborhoods. But dayem, do regular headlines like this give the city a black-eye on the national stage! :(
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think that's true. My wife and I visited Chicago recently for the second time. We ate great food, took in the symphony, and spent a day at the Museum of Science and Industry in Hyde Park, among other things. We walked the downtown area, both during the day and at night (from roughly Congress Pkwy. at Michigan Ave. north to Monroe and west to Dearborn). Interesting place at night. I had one pan handler hit me up. (He was asking for spare change, but as I had none I gave him a buck. A short while later, he saw me again, once again asking for spare change, but I reminded him I had already donated at his office.) A middle-aged Asian woman with limited English put some beads around my wife's neck, taking a page from the Hare Krishnas who used to accost me at airports. Once my wife figured out the "free" beads weren't free she handed them back, then took off almost sprinting to catch me since I knew the ruse and had kept walking. I almost died laughing at that one. :lol:) And then I was approached by a guy with bright-red hair and purple lipstick soliciting donations for Doctors Without Borders. I gave him a standard donation, $35, to "save thirty-five people." (He was high-tech, as he came with his own tablet and web app ready to accept my donation by credit card. I knew he was legit when I at first tried to hand him cash and he wouldn't take it. I've never seen a crook who wouldn't take cash. :lol:)

But did we witness any crime or at any point feel uncomfortable anywhere we visited? No, I can't say that we did. As you say, if you just avoid the bad areas of the city, your odds of being a victim are average. Would we go back again? Absolutely.
 
Ahlevah said:
Yeah, I think that's true. My wife and I visited Chicago recently for the second time. We ate great food, took in the symphony, and spent a day at the Museum of Science and Industry in Hyde Park, among other things. We walked the downtown area, both during the day and at night (from roughly Congress Pkwy. at Michigan Ave. north to Monroe and west to Dearborn). Interesting place at night. I had one pan handler hit me up. (He was asking for spare change, but as I had none I gave him a buck. A short while later, he saw me again, once again asking for spare change, but I reminded him I had already donated at his office.) A middle-aged Asian woman with limited English put some beads around my wife's neck, taking a page from the Hare Krishnas who used to accost me at airports. Once my wife figured out the "free" beads weren't free she handed them back, then took off almost sprinting to catch me since I knew the ruse and had kept walking. I almost died laughing at that one. :lol:) And then I was approached by a guy with bright-red hair and purple lipstick soliciting donations for Doctors Without Borders. I gave him a standard donation, $35, to "save thirty-five people." (He was high-tech, as he came with his own tablet and web app ready to accept my donation by credit card. I knew he was legit when I at first tried to hand him cash and he wouldn't take it. I've never seen a crook who wouldn't take cash. :lol:)

But did we witness any crime or at any point feel uncomfortable anywhere we visited? No, I can't say that we did. As you say, if you just avoid the bad areas of the city, your odds of being a victim are average. Would we go back again? Absolutely.
Click to expand...

Ok but what about the people who live there? Both in the bad neighborhoods and elsewhere. Theres about 2000 violent crimes in the city every month. Most are in certain neighborhoods, but the entire city is affected. They try to focus on shootings, but those are a minority of the violent crimes. 4000 shooting victims in 2016, but 20,000 violent crimes.

And how does culture play into this? 71% of murderers are black.
 
Rahm Emanuel's "safe and secure" city.
 
Ahlevah said:
Yeah, I think that's true. My wife and I visited Chicago recently for the second time. We ate great food, took in the symphony, and spent a day at the Museum of Science and Industry in Hyde Park, among other things. We walked the downtown area, both during the day and at night (from roughly Congress Pkwy. at Michigan Ave. north to Monroe and west to Dearborn). Interesting place at night. I had one pan handler hit me up. (He was asking for spare change, but as I had none I gave him a buck. A short while later, he saw me again, once again asking for spare change, but I reminded him I had already donated at his office.) A middle-aged Asian woman with limited English put some beads around my wife's neck, taking a page from the Hare Krishnas who used to accost me at airports. Once my wife figured out the "free" beads weren't free she handed them back, then took off almost sprinting to catch me since I knew the ruse and had kept walking. I almost died laughing at that one. :lol:) And then I was approached by a guy with bright-red hair and purple lipstick soliciting donations for Doctors Without Borders. I gave him a standard donation, $35, to "save thirty-five people." (He was high-tech, as he came with his own tablet and web app ready to accept my donation by credit card. I knew he was legit when I at first tried to hand him cash and he wouldn't take it. I've never seen a crook who wouldn't take cash. :lol:)

But did we witness any crime or at any point feel uncomfortable anywhere we visited? No, I can't say that we did. As you say, if you just avoid the bad areas of the city, your odds of being a victim are average. Would we go back again? Absolutely.
Click to expand...
Well, you essentially walked the Loop area, which is actually pretty dead at night.

If you would've gone further north along the lake across the river, even just a few blocks, you would've discovered a great expanse of fun and interesting neighborhoods that extend for maybe 10 or 12 miles to where the first north suburb (Evanston) begins.

There's GreekTown and the near west side too - both just blocks west of where you were, the latter which has a lot of decent newer restaurants and clubs. And there's Wicker Park a coupla' miles northwest of the loop for the hipster artist crowd.

Now the area you were in has a lot of famous buildings & sights, and it is the skyscraper area, but you haven't even scratched the surface of the individual neighborhoods that are the true heart of Chicago. And there's a great many, each of a different flavor.

If you do come back, hop on the el like everyone else - and explore those neighborhoods!
 
calamity said:
I've been trying to find out what the hell is happening. Seems to be mostly a result of turf wars for drugs, primarily displaced gangs which were moved from the housing projects out into the neighborhoods fighting for corners and drug houses.

Other factors I read about, but could not confirm:

1. Gang leaders are all in jail and the young bucks are running wild, shooting first and negotiating nothing
2. Guns being dumped on the street by the crate-full by illegal fire arms dealers
3. Police no-go zones resulting from a few publicized police shootings sparking near riots and prosecutions.
Click to expand...

At the heart of it is that a few years ago, they had a major crackdown of a couple of the ruling gangs and jailed their leaders.

This led to a massive turf war where drug violence spiked as gangs fought for more control and turf.

Now I hear among the young kids it's getting fueled by social media- insults on twitter and Facebook blowing up into actual shooting.
 
Chomsky said:
Well, you essentially walked the Loop area, which is actually pretty dead at night.

If you would've gone further north along the lake across the river, even just a few blocks, you would've discovered a great expanse of fun and interesting neighborhoods that extend for maybe 10 or 12 miles to where the first north suburb (Evanston) begins.

There's GreekTown and the near west side too - both just blocks west of where you were, the latter which has a lot of decent newer restaurants and clubs. And there's Wicker Park a coupla' miles northwest of the loop for the hipster artist crowd.

Now the area you were in has a lot of famous buildings & sights, and it is the skyscraper area, but you haven't even scratched the surface of the individual neighborhoods that are the true heart of Chicago. And there's a great many, each of a different flavor.

If you do come back, hop on the el like everyone else - and explore those neighborhoods!
Click to expand...

I haven't been there in decades, but Rush and Division used to he the bomb.
 
calamity said:
I haven't been there in decades, but Rush and Division used to he the bomb.
Click to expand...
Well, depending on how far you go back, it was some great live bands and fast hook-ups singles bars. Before that, it was mobbed-up strip joints.

But that's O.K., you don't have to tell us which era it was! :mrgreen:
 
Hawkeye10 said:
787 dead so far this year, only 40 are white.

Only 5/787 were killed by a white person.

I find this to be very interesting.



2016 Stats | Chicago Murder, Crime & Mayhem | HeyJackass!
Click to expand...
Yeah, shocking - ain't it?

The vast majority of the shooting is gang-on-gang in the black hoods, with a minority being punks venturing out to other hoods.

It's a complete embarrassment and failure that we accept this in America.

The reasons are complex. And it's gotten so bad for so long, that most of America prefers to turn their backs and walk away - and I honestly can't blame them. At one time as neighbors we talked about "holding together", "sticking together", but it doesn't work. I voted my choice with my dollars and feet; I moved-out!

As long as the underlying fundamentals are not addressed in some collective fashion, there's little we can do as individuals. I worked & participated in street-level politics, back then. Trust me, I tried. All an individual can do, is pack-up their family and move for a better life. Kinda' the way my pop and grandparents fled Hitler's Europe.

I guess it's in my family genes to escape turmoil. My paternal grandmother was Jewish before she converted to Catholicism. That must be it!
 
The violence is coming from the battle over turf of drug cartels. The drugs, marijuana, cocaine, and heroin are all being brought across our Mexican border. It's a war over the billions and billions of dollars to be made by no lack of addicted users.
 
Chomsky said:
Yeah, shocking - ain't it?

The vast majority of the shooting is gang-on-gang in the black hoods, with a minority being punks venturing out to other hoods.

It's a complete embarrassment and failure that we accept this in America.

The reasons are complex. And it's gotten so bad for so long, that most of America prefers to turn their backs and walk away - and I honestly can't blame them. At one time as neighbors we talked about "holding together", "sticking together", but it doesn't work. I voted my choice with my dollars and feet; I moved-out!

As long as the underlying fundamentals are not addressed in some collective fashion, there's little we can do as individuals. I worked & participated in street-level politics, back then. Trust me, I tried. All an individual can do, is pack-up their family and move for a better life. Kinda' the way my pop and grandparents fled Hitler's Europe.

I guess it's in my family genes to escape turmoil. My paternal grandmother was Jewish before she converted to Catholicism. That must be it!
Click to expand...

Trump will fix it ;)
 
Chomsky said:
Yeah, shocking - ain't it?

The vast majority of the shooting is gang-on-gang in the black hoods, with a minority being punks venturing out to other hoods.

It's a complete embarrassment and failure that we accept this in America.

The reasons are complex. And it's gotten so bad for so long, that most of America prefers to turn their backs and walk away - and I honestly can't blame them. At one time as neighbors we talked about "holding together", "sticking together", but it doesn't work. I voted my choice with my dollars and feet; I moved-out!

As long as the underlying fundamentals are not addressed in some collective fashion, there's little we can do as individuals. I worked & participated in street-level politics, back then. Trust me, I tried. All an individual can do, is pack-up their family and move for a better life. Kinda' the way my pop and grandparents fled Hitler's Europe.

I guess it's in my family genes to escape turmoil. My paternal grandmother was Jewish before she converted to Catholicism. That must be it!
Click to expand...

Greetings, Chomsky. :2wave:

Very well said, Sir! :thumbs:
 
Chomsky said:
I'd say you pretty much nailed it, here. Seriously.

The thing is: Except for some smash & grabs and the occasional car hijacking by perps from the gang neighborhoods that venture out for financial gain, the rest of the city and all the 'burbs but the immediate south 'burbs are reasonably crime free.

But I'm really not sure what can be done about the gang neighborhoods, because they really are desolate war zones. The old slur "where life is cheap" truly applies there!
Click to expand...

State militia?
 
Chomsky said:
Well, this says it all:

"Ninety percent of those killed had gang affiliation, criminal history and had been identified as potential offenders or victims of gun violence, said Johnson."

There's so much to love about Chicago. In per capita terms it's about mid-pack in crime & violence, and this stuff going down is mainly limited to a few select neighborhoods. But dayem, do regular headlines like this give the city a black-eye on the national stage! :(
Click to expand...

You ever hear the story about the starfish?
 
polgara said:
Greetings, Chomsky. :2wave:

Very well said, Sir! :thumbs:
Click to expand...
Thank you, Polagra.

I grew-up in a a very social and politically active neighborhood, into a large family with several small family-member businesses that were integrated into the neighborhood. Add into that heavy family involvement in the neighborhood Catholic School & Parish a block away, and it was a very cohesive interrelated neighborhood experience! I was surrounded by good loving people who all seemed to help each other for the greater good, and were good at fixing and making things better. We always seemed filled with optimism and the spirit of possibility!

That's why as the neighborhood went downhill decades later, it was difficult to face the fact the problem encroaching upon us could not be fixed. And as I grew older and moved in larger circles then that great former neighborhood, seeing segments of society and societal wrongs that could not be fixed clashed in direct contrast with the functionality I saw in my neighborhood when younger.

Ultimately, one of the most difficult things me to accept as a grown man, was that (at times) all I could do was take solace in that the most good I could do was to take care of my family. And while that's great satisfaction (and my ultimate most important priority), it just seems like something bigger is missing, some bigger calling that I left back in my youth (back in the city).
 
Chomsky said:
Yeah, shocking - ain't it?

The vast majority of the shooting is gang-on-gang in the black hoods, with a minority being punks venturing out to other hoods.

It's a complete embarrassment and failure that we accept this in America.

The reasons are complex. And it's gotten so bad for so long, that most of America prefers to turn their backs and walk away - and I honestly can't blame them. At one time as neighbors we talked about "holding together", "sticking together", but it doesn't work. I voted my choice with my dollars and feet; I moved-out!

As long as the underlying fundamentals are not addressed in some collective fashion, there's little we can do as individuals. I worked & participated in street-level politics, back then. Trust me, I tried. All an individual can do, is pack-up their family and move for a better life. Kinda' the way my pop and grandparents fled Hitler's Europe.

I guess it's in my family genes to escape turmoil. My paternal grandmother was Jewish before she converted to Catholicism. That must be it!
Click to expand...

This is why BLM gets dismissed because this they refuse to talk about. But then again Cosby was pointing this out 20 years ago, and there are others who speak up, trying to get America interested in what is going on....to no avail.

And you hit the nail on the head Mr Smart Guy.....problems that we dont want to deal with (sometimes because we feel that solving them is hopeless) we ignore, no matter our race or poltical lean.

This is NOT how AMERICA becomes GREAT AGAIN.

Honesty and smarts are needed.

Both are in very short supply.

EVERYWHERE

:-(
 
Last edited:
Chomsky said:
Thank you, Polagra.

I grew-up in a a very social and politically active neighborhood, into a large family with several small family-member businesses that were integrated into the neighborhood. Add into that heavy family involvement in the neighborhood Catholic School & Parish a block away, and it was a very cohesive interrelated neighborhood experience! I was surrounded by good loving people who all seemed to help each other for the greater good, and were good at fixing and making things better. We always seemed filled with optimism and the spirit of possibility!

That's why as the neighborhood went downhill decades later, it was difficult to face the fact the problem encroaching upon us could not be fixed. And as I grew older and moved in larger circles then that great former neighborhood, seeing segments of society and societal wrongs that could not be fixed clashed in direct contrast with the functionality I saw in my neighborhood when younger.

Ultimately, one of the most difficult things me to accept as a grown man, was that (at times) all I could do was take solace in that the most good I could do was to take care of my family. And while that's great satisfaction (and my ultimate most important priority), it just seems like something bigger is missing, some bigger calling that I left back in my youth (back in the city).
Click to expand...

My dad's brother lived in Sherman Park Milwaukee ( I know you must have heard of the place) during the late 70's till early 90's, which was awesome but the place has of course fallen apart (the last riot in Milwaukee was there). They wanted to find that in Minneapolis when he took a job there (ran legal aid offices, big ones, was very good at it) so they took a chance on a neighborhood that had been white but had become a melting pot. Ya, almost from the first year it was clear the neighborhood was in decline. They stuck it out for 17 years them being stout liberals who knew more than a little about tough hoods.....till they started to fear for their lives. Ended up selling the place for less than they had paid for it all those years earlier.

I told this story once before at DP , apologies if this is a repeat for you.

NET: I feel your pain.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
This is why BLM gets dismissed because this they refuse to talk about. But then again Cosby was pointing this out 20 years ago, and there are others who speak up, trying to get America interested in what is going on....to no avail.

And you hit the nail on the head Mr Smart Guy.....problems that we dont want to deal with (sometimes because we feel that solving them is hopeless) we ignore, no matter our race or poltical lean.

This is NOT how AMERICA becomes GREAT AGAIN.

Honesty and smarts are needed.

Both are in very short supply.

EVERYWHERE

:-(
Click to expand...
Well, for reasons like this I do wish great success comes from Trump. Specifically, economic success for all.

The reasons for these war-zone neighborhoods are complex. They're social, economic, cultural, educational, and political. An economy that works for everyone is one piece in the many that can help. That economy though must lift the entire boat though. But Trump's tax-plan offering more Laffer curve trickle-down does not seem to indicate this.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
My dad's brother lived in Sherman Park Milwaukee ( I know you must have heard of the place) during the late 70's till early 90's, which was awesome but the place has of course fallen apart (the last riot in Milwaukee was there). They wanted to find that in Minneapolis when he took a job there (ran legal aid offices, big ones, was very good at it) so they took a chance on a neighborhood that had been white but had become a melting pot. Ya, almost from the first year it was clear the neighborhood was in decline. They stuck it out for 17 years them being stout liberals who knew more than a little about tough hoods.....till they started to fear for their lives. Ended up selling the place for less than they had paid for it all those years earlier.

I told this story once before at DP , apologies if this is a repeat for you.

NET: I feel your pain.
Click to expand...
I didn't hear that story before, but thanks. It's a good story (in that it illustrates the point well).

Yeah, sadly as a man you hit the point where you say to yourself:

"I can't figure-out a way to help those around me, but my first priority is to my wife & kids and I gotta' make a move here!"

When that day hits, it's a very sad feeling. But every time I'm back in the old neighborhood I (still got a few straggler buddies and a relative hanging-on), I look around and *know* I made the right decision moving my family out!
 
Chomsky said:
Well, for reasons like this I do wish great success comes from Trump. Specifically, economic success for all.

The reasons for these war-zone neighborhoods are complex. They're social, economic, cultural, educational, and political. An economy that works for everyone is one piece in the many that can help. That economy though must lift the entire boat though. But Trump's tax-plan offering more Laffer curve trickle-down does not seem to indicate this.
Click to expand...

Does it seem to you that America has become all Trump all the time?

Does to me.

I OBJECT
 
Chomsky said:
I didn't hear that story before, but thanks. It's a good story (in that it illustrates the point well).

Yeah, sadly as a man you hit the point where you say to yourself:

"I can't figure-out a way to help those around me, but my first priority is to my wife & kids and I gotta' make a move here!"

When that day hits, it's a very sad feeling. But every time I'm back in the old neighborhood I (still got a few straggler buddies and a relative hanging-on), I look around and *know* I made the right decision moving my family out!
Click to expand...

Right on man,,,,,my Aunt and Uncle were crushed, in so many ways, not just the financial beating they took in support of their politics and morality.
 
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