34 Minute Execution ???

TurtleDude said:

a few weeks ago, my wife's 31 year old gelding was down in the field when we got home. It took us two hours to get him up but by then the damage was done and despite intensive care, the vet said she couldn't save him despite IVs of antibiotics and fluids. So she gave him a shot and in about 10 seconds, he went down without a sound and was gone in less than a minute with no obvious pain.

if they cannot get the drugs right go back to firing squads or hanging. I think hanging should be used if we have to have a DP because that doesn't ruin the organs for transplant unlike gas (incredibly painful according to doctors I know) electrocution (barbecues the organs) or lethal injections (poisons everything). and a firing squad often hits liver, kidney etc.

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Ever see a fellow die from asphyxiation from a mistake in the execution (hanging) process? I have.. its not pretty.

VanceMack said:

I would agree, which is why I believe it should only be used when there is absolute proof of the crime. Dylan Roof for example.

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I'd be fine with that.

TurtleDude said:

a few weeks ago, my wife's 31 year old gelding was down in the field when we got home. It took us two hours to get him up but by then the damage was done and despite intensive care, the vet said she couldn't save him despite IVs of antibiotics and fluids. So she gave him a shot and in about 10 seconds, he went down without a sound and was gone in less than a minute with no obvious pain.

if they cannot get the drugs right go back to firing squads or hanging. I think hanging should be used if we have to have a DP because that doesn't ruin the organs for transplant unlike gas (incredibly painful according to doctors I know) electrocution (barbecues the organs) or lethal injections (poisons everything). and a firing squad often hits liver, kidney etc.

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I'm going to bounce off your post, not necessarily respond directly to you.




Hanging can easily go horribly wrong.

The first decision is this: morally, do we think inflicting pain when imposing a criminal penalty is acceptable? That is, how big is retribution in the theory of punishment and how does it square with our feelings?



But as I said sardonically and seriously earlier, I think death penalty supporters as a ground are simultaneous blood-thirsty but squeamish. They don't want to see a head roll in pooled blood. They don't want to see brains, bone, and flesh splattered. They want it to look sedate.

The second is: regardless of the first question, do we think it is wise to grant government the power to impose this on a citizen after a jury trial, a decision made with the many times that juries have reached the wrong conclusion (and, frankly, the myriad cases that say that prosecutors engaged in misconduct but which do not find prejudice sufficient).



I oppose the death penalty because we have been wrong so many times. Additionally, the percentage of cases in which someone might yet be saved by death from things like DNA evidence, newly discovered evidence, and so forth, are vanishingly small when compared to the number of cases in which people have been executed BUT in which, had proper technology been available, procedures followed ,etc, more might have been exonerated.

If the country doesn't agree on that ground, then I demand guaranteed instant death. Let them choose. Guillotine. Double-barreled shotgun aimed at just the right part of the brain from point-blank range. Firing squad if they don't want that.




But as I said earlier, I think we're both blood-thisrty and squeamish about blood. Instant death if it involves blood? Can't have that. Let's go with injection, despite the many times in which it obviously cause a horrifically painful death.

I wish people could get past what they think the convicted citizen deserves. It's just as much, no more, about us.




"Many people who live deserve death. Many people who deserve life die. Can you give it to them?"

Close enough to the actual quote....

VanceMack said:

I would agree, which is why I believe it should only be used when there is absolute proof of the crime. Dylan Roof for example.

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But that's the wrinkle right there: what is absolute proof?


There's another concern, fundamental to our legal system and, I suggest, any system that dares call itself just: like cases are treated alike. Yet every case is different. What sort of standard can we lay down to determine absoluteness?


Confessions don't work. There are plenty of proven (by DNA or other evidence) false confessions.

Most forensic science is now in question because it's fundamental propositions were never proven (such as uniqueness of fingerprints, uniqueness of striations caused by guns, and so forth).

Unless video cameras are ultra-HD, which they almost never are, they don't clearly identify someone. Just the general pixellated image. But then, if the standard is "absolute", I take it to mean "beyond possibility" or close to it. Prove a guy didn't have a twin?

Someone else in one of those artfully made silicon representations that mold to the face and make you appear to be someone else - ESPECIALLY to a witness in the heat of the moment or on a less than Godly camera?




I have to oppose the DP. There are too many dead innocents, and the risk of more is too great.

Besides, I'd rather be executed than live in SuperMax/Isolation. Those are hell on Earth. If I was so sentenced and lost all meaningful post-conviction remedies, I would demand immediate execution if possible.

To be locked in a box. Forever.





To be clear: I would cheer if Dylan Roof was raped to death by xenomorphs from Alien. I'd say "ow" and forget about it if he burned to death in an accidental fire. But I simply cannot support the death penalty, just to stop his heart

Mr Person said:

But that's the wrinkle right there: what is absolute proof?


There's another concern, fundamental to our legal system and, I suggest, any system that dares call itself just: like cases are treated alike. Yet every case is different. What sort of standard can we lay down to determine absoluteness?


Confessions don't work. There are plenty of proven (by DNA or other evidence) false confessions.

Most forensic science is now in question because it's fundamental propositions were never proven (such as uniqueness of fingerprints, uniqueness of striations caused by guns, and so forth).

Unless video cameras are ultra-HD, which they almost never are, they don't clearly identify someone. Just the general pixellated image. But then, if the standard is "absolute", I take it to mean "beyond possibility" or close to it. Prove a guy didn't have a twin?

Someone else in one of those artfully made silicon representations that mold to the face and make you appear to be someone else - ESPECIALLY to a witness in the heat of the moment or on a less than Godly camera?




I have to oppose the DP. There are too many dead innocents, and the risk of more is too great.

Besides, I'd rather be executed than live in SuperMax/Isolation. Those are hell on Earth. If I was so sentenced and lost all meaningful post-conviction remedies, I would demand immediate execution if possible.

To be locked in a box. Forever.





To be clear: I would cheer if Dylan Roof was raped to death by xenomorphs from Alien. I'd say "ow" and forget about it if he burned to death in an accidental fire. But I simply cannot support the death penalty, just to stop his heart

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Would you say there is ambiguity to whether or not Dylan Roof is guilty?

I don't want to see him beaten. I don't want to see him hurt in any way shape or form by other prisoners. I simply don't see a value in keeping him alive. He shouldn't be given the opportunity to harm another soul.


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jaeger19 said:

Ever see a fellow die from asphyxiation from a mistake in the execution (hanging) process? I have.. its not pretty.

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In the USA at a prison vs a suicide? Most suicides don't use enough of a drop. Believe it or not, the army published a manual on drop lengths vs body weight to guarantee a clean kill.

MaggieD said:

I'm not sure hell hole is applicable. As I understand it, prisoners have access to exercise equipment, libraries, somewhat organized sports, jobs, computers, television, radio, classes, therapy, medical care, dental exams, and probably more.

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Hopefully, watching an episode of Lockup is the closest I'll ever get to a prison. I've seen enough episodes to see that Hell really does exist. Death to some of these guys is a blessing.

Suicides kill more inmates than homicide, overdoses, accidents combined

Lockup on MSNBC

Ahlevah said:

Hopefully, watching an episode of Lockup is the closest I'll ever get to a prison. I've seen enough episodes to see that Hell really does exist. Death to some of these guys is a blessing.

Suicides kill more inmates than homicide, overdoses, accidents combined

Lockup on MSNBC

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I know it's a dark place. Gangs rampant. Isolation. Fear. Men who couldn't "make it" on the outside gaining status and respect through terroristic actions that just shouldn't be allowed. Animals in a zoo, caged for life, are infinitely more content than many prisoners.

Our OPer said the whole system needs reform. I agree. I just don't think we should cherry pick these kinds of incidents to raise consciousness.

It's not the people who die who suffer. It is the people who live . . . As you have pointed out.

TurtleDude said:

In the USA at a prison vs a suicide? Most suicides don't use enough of a drop. Believe it or not, the army published a manual on drop lengths vs body weight to guarantee a clean kill.

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I saw it in another country. But it used to happen in the US as well when it was more common.

In the US there were reports of prison guards that would yank down on the convicts legs to help hasten his death in instances where the neck did not break sufficiently.

The death penalty is expensive, cruel, and is a reflection of a society that values revenge over humanity. No way to make it cheaper without harming the innocent either.

That said, I think I would rather be put to death than spend life in prison. I've never understood why vengeful people think that the DP is so just. Wouldn't it be more just to make them live in prison forever? American prisons are hell... full of gangs, violence, and constant conspiracy. There is no peace. To me, death is a much easier punishment than prison, even though I don't support it. Just talking philosophically here.

Dragonfly said:

Why is it that each time I've had to put one of my beloved dogs down they can euthanize them peacefully and within seconds of the needle penetrating the vein yet killing a human is such difficult work????

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It's kind of specious reasoning to assume that just because it looks peaceful to you, that it's actually peaceful. We don't know what they're experiencing internally as their body is killed. Hopefully their consciousness is totally offline and not one iota of it is aware, due to the anesthetic. But we have no way of knowing that for sure, do we?

jaeger19 said:

I saw it in another country. But it used to happen in the US as well when it was more common.

In the US there were reports of prison guards that would yank down on the convicts legs to help hasten his death in instances where the neck did not break sufficiently.

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we could do what China does. One 9mm in the back of the head and then the family is charged for the cost of the bullet. Now that's cold

Ikari said:

Right!? I don't even know why we bother with a trial. We all know who the guilty people are, we should just go around shooting them all.

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Cops are doing that as we speak. to wit:

Bakersfield police shoot, kill unarmed 73-year-old man - CNN.com

All he had was a crucifix.

TurtleDude said:

we could do what China does. One 9mm in the back of the head and then the family is charged for the cost of the bullet. Now that's cold

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It would be less cold then watch your loved one slowly asphyxiate, turn blue and struggle for breath that won't come as he kicks helplessly in the air.

I'd gladly pay for the bullet to stop seeing my son suffer like that. Or my wife, or dad.. or... you.

In a lot of ways were are very lucky that we live in a country that has the sensibilities that we do as a nation.

Dragonfly said:

Report: Condemned Alabama man coughed, heaved during execution - CNN.com



Why is it that each time I've had to put one of my beloved dogs down they can euthanize them peacefully and within seconds of the needle penetrating the vein yet killing a human is such difficult work????

Surely in 2016, a lethal brew can be easily created that'll put a human down.


Now don't get me wrong, I'm not agonizing over a death-row execution not going 100% as planned, but damn.

How can this be so difficult?

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I have zero sympathy for this PoS. He still had an "easier" death than his victim.

disneydude said:

Not at all. There are virtually no cases where a death row inmate or an inmate serving LWOP attacks a guard or another inmate.

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Please cite your source.