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Big sis to campus cops: Dont enforce immigration law...

falcata said:
Answer the question.
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Give a better example of the question. Let's discuss content/context and most importantly...the definition of illegal.


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nota bene said:
State and local law enforcement need to enforce existing federal laws, and the border states need support. I'm going to guess that you don't live in a border state because you don't appear to realize that illegal immigrants are very much a contributor to violent crimes and drugs. Also fatal and near-fatal DUIs, and they escape prosecution by running back over the border, leaving ruined lives in their wake.
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Some of them have also murdered cops here and then fled to Mexico, from which it has been difficult or impossible to extradite them. There have been several murders like that here in Southern California. I recall that in one of them, the illegal alien had already wounded the officer and could easily have gotten away. But being a vicious murderer, he instead walked over to the man, who was crawling along helplessly, and shot him in the head.

Any direction the University of California gives its campus police is action by the state. I assume California receives federal assistance for law enforcement, and I also assume a new administration could use the threat of withholding those funds to put an end to this kind of thing. Illegal aliens have already done more than enough to ruin what once really was the Golden State. We don't need for leftist jerks like Ms. Napolitano to add to the ruination.
 
VanceMack said:
Give a better example of the question. Let's discuss content/context and most importantly...the definition of illegal.


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Sorry you're incapable of answering direct questions and have to resort to diversion to move along in a conversation. Especially since your initial question is clearly rhetorical and an attempt to make me look stupid.

In 2009 there is proof of U.S. support of the Honduran coup even after we had guaranteed that the United States was done with this type of involvement in the region. Beyond this we have held Central America under our thumb for over the past 100 years, hindering political as well as economic developments in the country.

Clearly our involvement should be considered outside what is tasteful and of course legal interaction between two sovereign nations. These developments along with some others are the direct cause of the waves of migration that took place in the years after. These people aren't leaving their homelands for no reason to travel hundreds of miles, rising their own and their families' well-beings.

Do our illegal actions result in these waves of illegal migration? Which is the greater crime?
 
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falcata said:
Sorry you're incapable of answering direct questions and have to resort to diversion to move along in a conversation. Especially since your initial question is clearly rhetorical and an attempt to make me look stupid.

In 2009 there is proof of U.S. support of the Honduran coup even after we had guaranteed that the United States was done with this type of involvement in the region. Beyond this we have held Central America under our thumb for over the 100 years past, hindering political as well as economic developments in the country.

Clearly our involvement should be considered outside what is tasteful and of course legal interaction between two sovereign nations. These developments along with some others are the direct cause of the waves of migration that took place in the years after. These people aren't leaving their homelands for no reason to travel hundreds of miles, rising their own and their families' well-beings.

Do our illegal actions result in these waves of illegal migration? Which is the greater crime?
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:lamo

Gosh...it's almost like you were asking a setup question or something. It's almost like I saw it coming from a mile away!

Your scenario has precisely dick to do with the vast majority of 20-30 million illegal immigrants in this country. Trying to quantify one to excuse the other is just goofy. You sound as ridiculous as people that say we have to understand gang bangers that rape and murder because slavery 150 years ago.




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falcata said:
You know just because you apparently hate or for some reason are adverse to Hispanics doesn't mean everyone else does and only uses them to their own advantage. Sometimes people can actually have compassion for others. And get this, even for those who are different than them.

I would almost even concede to you on the legality of their status if it weren't for U.S. policy causing many of these mass migrations in the first place, whether it would be NAFTA or more recently the 2009 coup in Honduras
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Wanting a stronger and more effective immigration system is not bad. We don't want the tired and hungry and poor. We want the ones who are willing to work and pay taxes. Regardless of nationality. What is wrong with that?


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VanceMack said:
:lamo

Gosh...it's almost like you were asking a setup question or something. It's almost like I saw it coming from a mile away!

Your scenario has precisely dick to do with the vast majority of 20-30 million illegal immigrants in this country. Trying to quantify one to excuse the other is just goofy. You sound as ridiculous as people that say we have to understand gang bangers that rape and murder because slavery 150 years ago.




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If that's the case then ask me to get to the point. I don't think there is anything wrong with me using questions that lead into one another. I'm sorry if you feel otherwise.

Then you tell me what is the situation of the 20 - 30 million illegal immigrants in this country. What characterizes their situations that makes them so corrosive?

We should try to understand every human being on this earth regardless of their circumstances. I don't think you have to particularly like or appreciate them, but in reality they are worth no more than you or I. Not to mention slavery was and is not the only medium of oppression and coercion that existed in the United States that has persecuted black people, and that those institutions have had profound consequences on millions of peoples' lives.
 
blackjack50 said:
Wanting a stronger and more effective immigration system is not bad. We don't want the tired and hungry and poor. We want the ones who are willing to work and pay taxes. Regardless of nationality. What is wrong with that?


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...Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" - The New Colossus, Emma Lazarus
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Sorry, I just loved your sense of irony in using that.

Besides the fact our own country has often been the catalyst for these migrations of people I don't think your point really makes sense. Overwhelmingly why would illegal immigrants to the United States? To work. Would they be citizens if they could, work, and pay taxes if reasonable means were available to them? Without a doubt overwhelmingly they would. This characterizes the overwhelmingly majority of immigrants who come to this country.

I'm not disagreeing that we should have a comprehensive system of immigration, but there is a lot more to these situations than somebody coming to our country to take advantage of our resources.
 
falcata said:
Sorry you're incapable of answering direct questions and have to resort to diversion to move along in a conversation. Especially since your initial question is clearly rhetorical and an attempt to make me look stupid.

In 2009 there is proof of U.S. support of the Honduran coup even after we had guaranteed that the United States was done with this type of involvement in the region. Beyond this we have held Central America under our thumb for over the past 100 years, hindering political as well as economic developments in the country.

Clearly our involvement should be considered outside what is tasteful and of course legal interaction between two sovereign nations. These developments along with some others are the direct cause of the waves of migration that took place in the years after. These people aren't leaving their homelands for no reason to travel hundreds of miles, rising their own and their families' well-beings.

Do our illegal actions result in these waves of illegal migration? Which is the greater crime?
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So in your opinion that give all the citizens of Honduras the right to enter the US illegally?

How do you make that connection?
 
Mason66 said:
So in your opinion that give all the citizens of Honduras the right to enter the US illegally?

How do you make that connection?
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Clearly that's not what I'm implying nor is that realistic to even suggest. Those people left their country in order to survive and we were a significant factor in their having to do so. There is a point of responsibility. I'd prefer if we'd stop performing covert actions in these countries and started aiding in their sustainable and meaningful development.
 
falcata said:
You know just because you apparently hate or for some reason are adverse to Hispanics doesn't mean everyone else does and only uses them to their own advantage. Sometimes people can actually have compassion for others. And get this, even for those who are different than them.

I would almost even concede to you on the legality of their status if it weren't for U.S. policy causing many of these mass migrations in the first place, whether it would be NAFTA or more recently the 2009 coup in Honduras
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Why is it that whenever illegal immigration comes up its about race? Do you realize that Hispanics make up 51% of illegal immigrants in this country? What do you think the other 49% are made up of? Here's a hint...its not just brown people.

And skip the "non-compassion" mantra. We have refugee laws for a reason. I support them. Many other people do also. But you see, refugee status means that you get allowed into the US LEGALLY. What most people have a problem with are those that come here illegally and stay here illegally (past their visa expiration). Especially when roughly 7 million of them use stolen SSN's. Many which come from children.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Why is it that whenever illegal immigration comes up its about race? Do you realize that Hispanics make up 51% of illegal immigrants in this country? What do you think the other 49% are made up of? Here's a hint...its not just brown people.

And skip the "non-compassion" mantra. We have refugee laws for a reason. I support them. Many other people do also. But you see, refugee status means that you get allowed into the US LEGALLY. What most people have a problem with are those that come here illegally and stay here illegally (past their visa expiration). Especially when roughly 7 million of them use stolen SSN's. Many which come from children.
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I am responding to the narrative that is levied against illegal immigrants that has been characterized by xenophobia for as long as anyone can remember. My characterization is by no means the initiation of this in any dialogue. Also the number you're citing are illegal immigrants from Mexico not Hispanics overall. People from Latin America overall constitute 77.7% of unauthorized immigrants to the United States.

Estimated unauthorized immigrant total declines from Mexico, rises from Asia since 2009 | Pew Research Center

7 million out of the 11 million unauthorized immigrants are able to obtain false and yet still functioning Social Security Numbers? I found a link showing 1 million which is a lot more believable, but look at the reason they're in doing so. They're doing this in order to work and pay taxes. Our present systems are too inadequate to deal with these people and their desire to honestly and diligently reside here. Our consideration of refugees is equally inadequate, why would we call migrants of a crisis we help cause refugees? Our hubris is too great in the matter to even consider it.

Forbes Welcome
 
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falcata said:
I am responding to the narrative that is levied against illegal immigrants that has been characterized by xenophobia for as long as anyone can remember. My characterization is by no means the initiation of this in any dialogue. Also the number you're citing are illegal immigrants from Mexico not Hispanics overall. People from Latin America overall constitute 77.7% of unauthorized immigrants to the United States.

Estimated unauthorized immigrant total declines from Mexico, rises from Asia since 2009 | Pew Research Center

7 million out of the 11 million unauthorized immigrants are able to obtain false and yet still functioning Social Security Numbers? I found a link showing 1 million which is a lot more believable, but look at the reason they're in doing so. They're doing this in order to work and pay taxes. Our present systems are too inadequate to deal with these people and their desire to honestly and diligently reside here. Our consideration of refugees is equally inadequate, why would we call migrants of a crisis we help cause refugees? Our hubris is too great in the matter to even consider it.

Forbes Welcome
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You are correct about the 51% number. Still doesn't matter though. There are people here illegally from any different races. Which is why the race card being played is idiotic.

As for the 7 million number, you are partially correct there. I forgot to add that the 7 million number includes both stolen and fake SSN's. The 1 million number you site is of children....in Arizona. Illegal, but Not Undocumented

Children are prime targets. In Arizona, it is estimated that over one million children are victims of identity theft. In Utah, 1,626 companies were found to be paying wages to the SSNs of children on public assistance under the age of 13. These individuals suffer very real and very serious consequences in their lives.
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BTW, your forbes link? Yeah, we've known about that for a LONG time now. IRS has always been able to tell if fake or stolen SSN's are being used. They claim however that they can't disclose that information to anyone due to "privacy concerns".
 
Kal'Stang said:
You are correct about the 51% number. Still doesn't matter though. There are people here illegally from any different races. Which is why the race card being played is idiotic.

As for the 7 million number, you are partially correct there. I forgot to add that the 7 million number includes both stolen and fake SSN's. The 1 million number you site is of children....in Arizona. Illegal, but Not Undocumented



BTW, your forbes link? Yeah, we've known about that for a LONG time now. IRS has always been able to tell if fake or stolen SSN's are being used. They claim however that they can't disclose that information to anyone due to "privacy concerns".
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I tried to go to the source link for that data, but it was dead. Not to mention that those children's identities were not stolen solely for this purpose of utilization of illegal immigrants, but of were instances of general identity theft. You and the author inappropriately correlate that. The same goes for the 7 million figure. In the New York Times article it cites, it only references W-2 forms in a general sense, not specifically to undocumented immigrants utilizing them fraudulently:

In the Queens center, Ana Andrade, 32, from Mexico, had other incentives. She presented a W-2 form that showed withholding of more than $3,000 from the $24,000 she had earned as a cook in a Manhattan restaurant, at $10 an hour. Like more than seven million such W-2 forms nationwide, hers bore a false Social Security number. - Tax Returns Rise for Immigrants in U.S. Illegally - The New York Times
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This whole piece is just a bunch of garbage. In its "A Culture of Corruption" section it tries to insinuate since these people come from societies with obvious levels of corruption that they are also inherently corrupted themselves. Now there is some racism so soft you could sleep on it. Undocumented immigrants in this country are less crime prone than the citizens that already reside here.

The Mythical Connection Between Immigrants and Crime - WSJ

Now I obviously don't approve of identity theft, but clearly the best answer would be to facilitate a way for these people to honestly contribute in the way they would honestly like to.
 
falcata said:
I tried to go to the source link for that data, but it was dead. Not to mention that those children's identities were not stolen solely for this purpose of utilization of illegal immigrants, but of were instances of general identity theft. You and the author inappropriately correlate that. The same goes for the 7 million figure. In the New York Times article it cites, it only references W-2 forms in a general sense, not specifically to undocumented immigrants utilizing them fraudulently:



This whole piece is just a bunch of garbage. In its "A Culture of Corruption" section it tries to insinuate since these people come from societies with obvious levels of corruption that they are also inherently corrupted themselves. Now there is some racism so soft you could sleep on it. Undocumented immigrants in this country are less crime prone than the citizens that already reside here.

The Mythical Connection Between Immigrants and Crime - WSJ

Now I obviously don't approve of identity theft, but clearly the best answer would be to facilitate a way for these people to honestly contribute in the way they would honestly like to.
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Of course they have to use a general sense in this. That's what most "estimates" are about. Particularly for a demographic that likes to stay hidden as much as possible on an individual basis. That is why they also narrow their searches for areas like identity theft being used for employment. Which my link does mention.

And no, facilitating a way for these people to "honestly contribute in the way they would honestly like to" does nothing except encourage more illegal immigration. That's why when Reagan signed his amnesty legislation 3 million people were given amnesty...and today we have an estimated 12-20 million illegal immigrants in this country. (i favor the 12 million number myself) Obviously providing amnesty for illegal immigrants does nothing to secure our borders and prevent future illegal aliens from coming here.
 
falcata said:
Clearly that's not what I'm implying nor is that realistic to even suggest. Those people left their country in order to survive and we were a significant factor in their having to do so. There is a point of responsibility. I'd prefer if we'd stop performing covert actions in these countries and started aiding in their sustainable and meaningful development.
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Please stop making excuses for people's illegal activity.

Even if they leave their country, there are a lot of countries between there and the US.

They do not have to go to the US if they are fleeing whatever they are fleeing and it is not the fault of the US for whatever is happening in that country.

If Honduras doesn't want the US involved, they can kick them out.
 
I think Big Sis has done a wonderful thing,, I encourage all non sanctuary cities to give any illegal ( sorry, Undocumented) person a one way ticket to the elite CA college campuses, Then we should all demand that they remove as many paying, true citizens from the campus as it takes to accommodate the illegals ( undocumented ) force then to provide a free education, Housing and food.

I wonder how long they would stay in business. Sure they get federal funding, but they need paying students more than anything.

djl
 
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