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Mass shootings

Glen Contrarian said:
Mm-hmm...which is why keeping the guns out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them is tyranny...but making damn sure that it's so doggone easy for violent felons, sex offenders, sociopaths, and terrorists to buy guns, well, that's REAL freedom, huh?

:doh
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Gun registration does not prevent ANY of that from happening.

Because gun registration won't be followed by any of those people....
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Who do you suppose manufactures the quarter-freaking-MILLION firearms that are smuggled to Mexico each year, hm? Are you really going to claim that the gun manufacturers don't have a fiduciary interest in seeing hundreds of thousands of their guns being sold - illegally or not - outside our borders?

Come on, guy - the fiduciary interest is obviously there. Trying to claim that they don't have any such interest is very much like when Big Tobacco said that they didn't have any interest in selling cigarettes to minors? Remember the "Joe Camel" cartoon advertisements?
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Ahem..

Gun manufacturers make ZERO money on resales of their firearms....

So why do you keep claiming that they have a fiduciary interest in seeing hundreds of thousands of their guns being sold illegally?
 
Caine said:
Ahem..

Gun manufacturers make ZERO money on resales of their firearms....

So why do you keep claiming that they have a fiduciary interest in seeing hundreds of thousands of their guns being sold illegally?
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Gun manufacturers have increased sales to replace the ones sold illegally... bidness is bidness...
 
Manc Skipper said:
Gun manufacturers have increased sales to replace the ones sold illegally... bidness is bidness...
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Alot of assumptions being made in that statement.......
 
Caine said:
Ahem..

Gun manufacturers make ZERO money on resales of their firearms....

So why do you keep claiming that they have a fiduciary interest in seeing hundreds of thousands of their guns being sold illegally?
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Ahem yourself.

When a gun owner sells a firearm, is it or is it not true that a lot of times that gun owner will go buy another firearm for himself, that a lot of times, he just wanted to upgrade the firearm he had? And who profits? The gun manufacturers.

And when a gun owner finds out he can make a heck of a profit selling guns to a particular person or set of persons, no questions asked, is he likely to go buy more guns for himself after the highly-profitable sale is made? Of course. And who profits? The gun manufacturers.

And when more and more criminals have guns and commit atrocities, who goes out and buys more guns? People like you and me, to protect ourselves and our families. And who profits? The gun manufacturers.

What really sucks is that I've walked down the streets of so many cities around this world (including poverty-ridden slums)...and I'm never so worried about my safety as when I'm right here in America. Is it because the people over there are somehow different? No. People are people are people, all over the world. The difference is this: when we make things easier for people to do, more people will do it...even if it's wrong. If we make it easy for criminals, crazies, and terrorists to get firearms, more of them WILL get firearms, and more of them WILL commit atrocities. It really is as simple as that.
 
Caine said:
Gun registration does not prevent ANY of that from happening.

Because gun registration won't be followed by any of those people....
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Do criminals care about gun registration? Of course not. But it damn well WOULD matter to those who legally buy firearms and privately sell them to criminals. Why? Joe Criminal commits a crime, and is caught - and law enforcement sees the serial number on the firearm, and sees who legally purchased the gun in the first place...and then goes to that original owner: "Sir, you got some 'splainin to do."

With registration, gun owners are responsible for what is done with their firearms. They can only sell them (privately or not) to someone who passes a background check. If the guns are stolen, then the gun owner needs to report it.

And as a direct result, the easy availability of firearms to be bought by criminals begins to not be as easy anymore.

Gun registration does not significantly hinder the ability of law-abiding citizens to purchase firearms. It DOES hinder the ability of would-be gun smugglers to get their hands on firearms to sell to criminals...and if you don't think this is a big deal, remember that nearly a freaking quarter-million firearms are smuggled FROM America TO Mexico each and every year:

Some 2.2 percent of all US gun sales are made to smuggling rings that take firearms to Mexico, a scale of illegal trafficking that’s “much higher than widely assumed,” an academic study released Monday found.

An average of 253,000 weapons purchased in the United States head south of the border each year, according to the study by four scholars at the University of San Diego’s Trans-Border Institute and the Igarape Institute, a research center in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.

Profit margins at many gun stores are razor thin, and thousands of US gun vendors would go out of business without the illicit traffic to Mexico, said Topher McDougal, an economist educated at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who’s one of the study’s authors.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Do criminals care about gun registration? Of course not. But it damn well WOULD matter to those who legally buy firearms and privately sell them to criminals. Why? Joe Criminal commits a crime, and is caught - and law enforcement sees the serial number on the firearm, and sees who legally purchased the gun in the first place...and then goes to that original owner: "Sir, you got some 'splainin to do."

With registration, gun owners are responsible for what is done with their firearms. They can only sell them (privately or not) to someone who passes a background check. If the guns are stolen, then the gun owner needs to report it.

And as a direct result, the easy availability of firearms to be bought by criminals begins to not be as easy anymore.

Gun registration does not significantly hinder the ability of law-abiding citizens to purchase firearms. It DOES hinder the ability of would-be gun smugglers to get their hands on firearms to sell to criminals...and if you don't think this is a big deal, remember that nearly a freaking quarter-million firearms are smuggled FROM America TO Mexico each and every year:

Some 2.2 percent of all US gun sales are made to smuggling rings that take firearms to Mexico, a scale of illegal trafficking that’s “much higher than widely assumed,” an academic study released Monday found.

An average of 253,000 weapons purchased in the United States head south of the border each year, according to the study by four scholars at the University of San Diego’s Trans-Border Institute and the Igarape Institute, a research center in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.

Profit margins at many gun stores are razor thin, and thousands of US gun vendors would go out of business without the illicit traffic to Mexico, said Topher McDougal, an economist educated at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who’s one of the study’s authors.
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Really?

Why are the biggest gun registration states also strife in illegal gun violence then?
 
Glen Contrarian said:
How many mass shootings has Australia had since they passed much stronger gun control laws?

ZERO.
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"Hey, Bob, what do you think Pittsburgh Steelers need to do to improve their chances at the playoffs."

"Well, if the Pittsburgh Penguins could retain their good recruitment class, they will be a force to reckon with in the future."

What other non-comparable things do we want to talk about?
 
Caine said:
Really?

Why are the biggest gun registration states also strife in illegal gun violence then?
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Really? I suggest you go check the stats before you post such a question...because if you'd actually check, the top ten states that have the highest homicide rates are mostly RED states.

And if you'd check, red states generally have higher poverty rates, lower educational attainment rates, higher divorce rates, higher teenage pregnancy rates, higher violent crime rates, lower percentages of health care coverage, and lower life expectancies. When I started digging into the different rates, the ONLY metrics I could find where red states were better off were cost-of-living and drug use. ALL other metrics showed a generally poorer performance by red states.

Now, here's the real kicker: the generally lower standard of living in red states ain't because the states are red. So...why, then, would a supposedly very partisan progressive like me say that the generally lower standard of living in red states ain't because those states are red? Why would I throw away a perfectly good tool with which to shame the Right?

Here's a clue: because I honestly do try to be objective. NOW - why do you suppose I say that the generally lower standard of living in red states is NOT because the states are red?
 
Caine said:
Alot of assumptions being made in that statement.......
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Not at all. They make more to replace guns sold, whoever they're sold to. They make money from each gun, including those illegally sold on.
 
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