Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics center

MickeyW · Oct 5, 2016

Police shot and killed a machete-wielding suspect inside the Champions Center at the University of Colorado's Folsom Field this morning after they say the man refused to drop his weapon.

Campus police, at a morning news conference following the officer-involved shooting, said they did not know the man's motive for entering the athletics center with a weapon.
Police fatally shoot man with machete inside University of Colorado's athletics center - Boulder Daily Camera

MickeyW · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Is there a citizen video out yet? One where the person keeps shouting, "don't shoot him, he don't own no machete, he don't own no machete!"

Brewdog · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

MickeyW said:
Is there a citizen video out yet? One where the person keeps shouting, "don't shoot him, he don't own no machete, he don't own no machete!"

I would investigate the person saying that. Because we know that someone using double negatives surely isn't a student or faculty member at the U. of Colorado.

Moot · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Why is lethal force always the first response for police? If they're just going to kill people who need help...then we need to rethink the role of the police.

MickeyW · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Brewdog said:
I would investigate the person saying that. Because we know that someone using double negatives surely isn't a student or faculty member at the U. of Colorado.

And most of the protesters in Ferguson, Texas and Florida, were outside agitators...

MickeyW · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Moot said:
Why is lethal force always the first response for police? If they're just going to kill people who need help...then we need to rethink the role of the police.

Because when a person is demonstrating lethal force, the cops have a duty to protect the public and themselves. Simple as that.

When you threaten with a deadly weapon and refuse to obey lawful commands by the Po Po......you've ****ed Up! How hard is that to understand?
For people who have never done the job and have no conception of what it entails, Monday morning quarterbacking, is as dumb as it gets!
I'm so sick and tired of uneducated, uninformed dweebs, trying to make sense of police actions, which they know nothing about and would be to skeeered, to do the job themselves!

Brewdog · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Moot said:
Why is lethal force always the first response for police? If they're just going to kill people who need help...then we need to rethink the role of the police.

I would agree that someone swinging a machete needs help. But he needed help before swinging the machete.

I don't expect our police to show up to a dangerous situation that could kill them or bystanders and say, "Aww... bless his machete-wielding heart. He needs help."

Lutherf · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Moot said:
Why is lethal force always the first response for police? If they're just going to kill people who need help...then we need to rethink the role of the police.

Do you not consider "Stop! Drop the weapon!" a first response? Something like 99.9% of these incidents could be avoided if the suspect simply followed police instructions.

Brewdog · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Brewdog said:
I would agree that someone swinging a machete needs help. But he needed help before swinging the machete.

I don't expect our police to show up to a dangerous situation that could kill them or bystanders and say, "Aww... bless his machete-wielding heart. He needs help."

Even though I believe what I said above, I was reminded of this video. You'll notice that the police in this video never draw a firearm or even put their hands on their weapons whatsoever.

"How Colombian Police deal with machete wielding maniac"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYsXbJPWCNo

Casper · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

MickeyW said:
Police shot and killed a machete-wielding suspect inside the Champions Center at the University of Colorado's Folsom Field this morning after they say the man refused to drop his weapon.

Campus police, at a morning news conference following the officer-involved shooting, said they did not know the man's motive for entering the athletics center with a weapon.
Police fatally shoot man with machete inside University of Colorado's athletics center - Boulder Daily Camera

Sounds like a justified shooting to me. The citizens of Colorado are safer now that he is gone. I feel for the officer involved, never easy to take a life, even those justified.
Now let the Monday morning quarterbacks start their speculation and how they would do it differently.

mike2810 · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Moot said:
Why is lethal force always the first response for police? If they're just going to kill people who need help...then we need to rethink the role of the police.

How would you handle the situation if you were the police officer on scene?

If your young enough, fit enough, maybe you should become a law enforcement officer. You could then help in the change you seem to hint needs to take place.

Moot · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

MickeyW said:
Because when a person is demonstrating lethal force, the cops have a duty to protect the public and themselves. Simple as that.

When you threaten with a deadly weapon and refuse to obey lawful commands by the Po Po......you've ****ed Up! How hard is that to understand?
For people who have never done the job and have no conception of what it entails, Monday morning quarterbacking, is as dumb as it gets!
I'm so sick and tired of uneducated, uninformed dweebs, trying to make sense of police actions, which they know nothing about and would be to skeeered, to do the job themselves!

Surely, there are more effective ways for dealing with the mentally ill than killing them. Perhaps, a little sensitivity training in how to communicate and deal with the public and the mentally ill should be mandatory in police departments all across the country.

Training police to help those with mental illness - CNN.com

How to Handle the Mentally Ill - PoliceLink

Moot · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

mike2810 said:
How would you handle the situation if you were the police officer on scene?

If your young enough, fit enough, maybe you should become a law enforcement officer. You could then help in the change you seem to hint needs to take place.

See post #12. I would've responded to you first had I seen your question first.

Brewdog · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

mike2810 said:
How would you handle the situation if you were the police officer on scene?

There's not enough information about the situation in the news article to make that assessment.

Lutherf · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Brewdog said:
Even though I believe what I said above, I was reminded of this video. You'll notice that the police in this video never draw a firearm or even put their hands on their weapons whatsoever.

"How Colombian Police deal with machete wielding maniac"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYsXbJPWCNo

It's all situational. There are times when letting the guy get it out of his system is a viable option but it's not an option EVERY time.

Caine · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Moot said:
Why is lethal force always the first response for police? If they're just going to kill people who need help...then we need to rethink the role of the police.

And how many lives or serious bodily injuries should we sacrifice in the name of all of these many many people who "just need help"??

MickeyW · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Brewdog said:
I would agree that someone swinging a machete needs help. But he needed help before swinging the machete.

I don't expect our police to show up to a dangerous situation that could kill them or bystanders and say, "Aww... bless his machete-wielding heart. He needs help."

Exactly.

Lutherf said:
Do you not consider "Stop! Drop the weapon!" a first response? Something like 99.9% of these incidents could be avoided if the suspect simply followed police instructions.

Simply.

Brewdog said:
Even though I believe what I said above, I was reminded of this video. You'll notice that the police in this video never draw a firearm or even put their hands on their weapons whatsoever.

"How Colombian Police deal with machete wielding maniac"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYsXbJPWCNo

Endangering the lives of citizens by allowing them to get in the way, is pretty dumb. Risking a serious injury to themselves by allowing it to continue as long as it did, also dumb.
In days gone by, when all I had was a service revolver and baton, I would have tried to talk him down, but in his mental state, most likely would have shot him. Today, the officers have tasers, which are somewhat effective, but only about 60-70% in a case like this.

Casper said:
Sounds like a justified shooting to me. The citizens of Colorado are safer now that he is gone. I feel for the officer involved, never easy to take a life, even those justified.
Now let the Monday morning quarterbacks start their speculation and how they would do it differently.

They already started...

Moot · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Lutherf said:
It's all situational. There are times when letting the guy get it out of his system is a viable option but it's not an option EVERY time.

However, there seems to be an uptick in police arriving on a scene and within seconds shooting the people that they were called to help. Screaming orders at someone who is already paranoid and afraid isn't going to make them less afraid or calm them down. I think less aggressive and threatening tactics should be tried first.

Caine · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Casper said:
Sounds like a justified shooting to me. The citizens of Colorado are safer now that he is gone. I feel for the officer involved, never easy to take a life, even those justified.
Now let the Monday morning quarterbacks start their speculation and how they would do it differently.

Caine · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Moot said:
Surely, there are more effective ways for dealing with the mentally ill than killing them. Perhaps, a little sensitivity training in how to communicate and deal with the public and the mentally ill should be mandatory in police departments all across the country.

Training police to help those with mental illness - CNN.com

How to Handle the Mentally Ill - PoliceLink

Its funny....

We received that training when I was a police officer.... and then additional in service training as well....

But never in our training we were told to risk death or serious bodily injury by a weapon wielding person who was mentally ill.

Being mentally ill is not a free pass for the police to risk their lives to stop you using non-lethal only methods whilst you try to kill them.

Manc Skipper · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Moot said:
Why is lethal force always the first response for police? If they're just going to kill people who need help...then we need to rethink the role of the police.

When most of them are recruited straight from the army, the mindset comes with the package. The enemy is now the public.

Caine · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

MickeyW said:
Endangering the lives of citizens by allowing them to get in the way, is pretty dumb. Risking a serious injury to themselves by allowing it to continue as long as it did, also dumb.
In days gone by, when all I had was a service revolver and baton, I would have tried to talk him down, but in his mental state, most likely would have shot him. Today, the officers have tasers, which are somewhat effective, but only about 60-70% in a case like this.

Not to mention the range on a taser is a lot shorter than people imagine......

The Taser X2 (the model my old department is using now) has an effective range of 15 ft.

Which is 6 feet inside the "21 ft Rule" distance.

If a knife wielding individual can clear 21 feet in 3 seconds in a rush to attack you... imagine it is around 2.1 seconds for that effective range.... putting the officer at greater risk to get close enough to actually deploy a taser.

Lutherf · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Moot said:
However, there seems to be an uptick in police arriving on a scene and within seconds shooting the people that they were called to help. Screaming orders at someone who is already paranoid and afraid isn't going to make them less afraid or calm them down. I think less aggressive and threatening tactics should be tried first.

Like I said, it's situational.

The Tamir Rice incident could have been avoided if the cops handled it from a standoff position instead of running right up on him. There was nobody else in the area so the threat he presented was minimal.

The Keith Scott scenario was dramatically different since he was in an occupied area.

I understand how someone watching these things on a Youtube video a thousand miles and several days away from the actual incident might be tempted to "Monday Morning Quarterback" these cases but there's lots of stuff that happens before those videos start and lots of stuff going on that the video might not show so if you do that you're not giving the cops a fair shake.

Caine · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Moot said:
However, there seems to be an uptick in police arriving on a scene and within seconds shooting the people that they were called to help. Screaming orders at someone who is already paranoid and afraid isn't going to make them less afraid or calm them down. I think less aggressive and threatening tactics should be tried first.

I agree..... the public should train themselves to be less aggressive and threatening to others..

MickeyW · Oct 5, 2016

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Moot said:
Surely, there are more effective ways for dealing with the mentally ill than killing them. Perhaps, a little sensitivity training in how to communicate and deal with the public and the mentally ill should be mandatory in police departments all across the country.

Training police to help those with mental illness - CNN.com

How to Handle the Mentally Ill - PoliceLink

Situational differences abound. You cited two links that had no resemblance to the case in the OP.
When I worked in the jail with many mentally ill, we did not have guns, but we were in a controlled area. Out in public, is a very different scenario with many different variables.
Maybe..........we should just have the police stand back and send in social workers to diffuse the nutjobs. Can we count on you to handle it for us, so we can deal with real crime?

Lutherf said:
It's all situational. There are times when letting the guy get it out of his system is a viable option but it's not an option EVERY time.

Exactly.

Caine said:
And how many lives or serious bodily injuries should we sacrifice in the name of all of these many many people who "just need help"??

A good question. One that liberals fail to answer.

Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics center

MickeyW

MickeyW

Brewdog

Well-known member

Moot

MickeyW

MickeyW

Brewdog

Well-known member

Lutherf

Brewdog

Well-known member

Casper

mike2810

Moot

Moot

Brewdog

Well-known member

Lutherf

Caine

MickeyW

Moot

Caine

Caine

Manc Skipper

Wrinkly member

Caine

Lutherf

Caine

MickeyW