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Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics center

Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Caine said:
And how many lives or serious bodily injuries should we sacrifice in the name of all of these many many people who "just need help"??
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If you can't call the police to help your mentally ill child get safely to a hospital or facility....then who can you call? How many innocent people have to get killed by the police before we demand they get training in how to communicate and deal with the public and the mentally ill?
 
Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

imo, as LEO arrive on scene, they may or may not know the person is mentally ill. So to give out a command to drop your weapon/machete seems a reasonable response.
Second, not all people ranting and yelling are mentally ill.
Seems the primary duty of LEO is to protect the public and themselves.

It would be great to think that police could deescalate most situations with the mentally ill. In the end the Officers did what they thought was best.

I would wait to see if a final investigation report is released before drawing any more opinion regarding the police actions in this event.
 
Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Moot said:
However, there seems to be an uptick in police arriving on a scene and within seconds shooting the people that they were called to help. Screaming orders at someone who is already paranoid and afraid isn't going to make them less afraid or calm them down. I think less aggressive and threatening tactics should be tried first.
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The more you talk, the more you indicate that you have no business commenting here!

Caine said:
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Stellar!!!

Caine said:
Its funny....

We received that training when I was a police officer.... and then additional in service training as well....

But never in our training we were told to risk death or serious bodily injury by a weapon wielding person who was mentally ill.

Being mentally ill is not a free pass for the police to risk their lives to stop you using non-lethal only methods whilst you try to kill them.
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As simple as that.......you'd think bleeding heart libs could get it.....but **** NO...they Don't!!
 
Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Manc Skipper said:
When most of them are recruited straight from the army, the mindset comes with the package. The enemy is now the public.
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The enemy is anyone who is threatening the public, or the officer. Always has been, always should be.
No, most officers are not recruited straight out of the army.

Caine said:
Not to mention the range on a taser is a lot shorter than people imagine......

The Taser X2 (the model my old department is using now) has an effective range of 15 ft.

Which is 6 feet inside the "21 ft Rule" distance.

If a knife wielding individual can clear 21 feet in 3 seconds in a rush to attack you... imagine it is around 2.1 seconds for that effective range.... putting the officer at greater risk to get close enough to actually deploy a taser.
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Absolutely correct and facts that the bleeding heart libs cannot comprehend, because they have never been in that situation and most likely....never will be.
 
Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Moot said:
If you can't call the police to help your mentally ill child get safely to a hospital or facility....then who can you call? How many innocent people have to get killed by the police before we demand they get training in how to communicate and deal with the public and the mentally ill?
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If your child is armed with a weapon and threatening people with that weapon that has to be handled first.

If my child threatened law enforcement with a weapon and they defended themselves, Im not going to blame them.......

This whole 'THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!1111!!!ONE!!!!!" thing you are trying to pull ain't working.

Again... as I have stated.... police DO receive training in how to deal with mentally ill individuals... and nowhere in that training does it state you need to put yourself in a situation to be shot or stabbed in order to do so.

The first priority of any police officer when dealing with ANY armed person is to get them to disarm... period.... If they refused to disarm and continue to act in a threatening manner then law enforcement will have to stop that threat.



Lastly... I find it absolutely hilarious the amount of non-law enforcement knowing people who claim what the police need training in without even knowing what the **** police already have trained on in the first place.
 
Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Moot said:
If you can't call the police to help your mentally ill child get safely to a hospital or facility....then who can you call? How many innocent people have to get killed by the police before we demand they get training in how to communicate and deal with the public and the mentally ill?
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Call a bleeding heart liberal dope, who think they have all the answers.....send them in first!

They have training now, for cops.... and it has no bearing(read Does Not Apply) on many of these incidents.

How many cops and innocent people have to be seriously injured, or killed, before the liberals wake up?
How many Lefties don't understand a controlled setting vs. out of control setting?

mike2810 said:
imo, as LEO arrive on scene, they may or may not know the person is mentally ill. So to give out a command to drop your weapon/machete seems a reasonable response.
Second, not all people ranting and yelling are mentally ill.
Seems the primary duty of LEO is to protect the public and themselves.

It would be great to think that police could deescalate most situations with the mentally ill. In the end the Officers did what they thought was best.

I would wait to see if a final investigation report is released before drawing any more opinion regarding the police actions in this event.
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Exactly.
 
Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Moot said:
If you can't call the police to help your mentally ill child get safely to a hospital or facility....then who can you call? How many innocent people have to get killed by the police before we demand they get training in how to communicate and deal with the public and the mentally ill?
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When you threaten with a deadly weapon and refuse to obey lawful commands by the Po Po......you've ****ed Up!

How hard is that to understand? Can we count on you to do the job, and keep the public safe?
 
Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Caine said:
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Well Mickey does as do a few others here, several of my friends are LEO's and FYI it does not take a LEO to see that the officers had every right to take him down before he actually harmed or killed one of them or another citizen. Since it is obvious that you have no opinion, after all you are not a LEO, then why do you care if I voice mine, does it bother you somehow that some of us support our men in women wearing law enforcement badges?
 
Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

I'd happily grab a coffee and danish and sit back and watch liberals do the job.

I can multitask....write a parking ticket, eat and watch fools diffusing mental cases.
 
Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Casper said:
Well Mickey does as do a few others here, several of my friends are LEO's and FYI it does not take a LEO to see that the officers had every right to take him down before he actually harmed or killed one of them or another citizen. Since it is obvious that you have no opinion, after all you are not a LEO, then why do you care if I voice mine, does it bother you somehow that some of us support our men in women wearing law enforcement badges?
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Apparently you haven't been reading ANY of my posts....

I'll let you catch up first...
 
Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Moot said:
If you can't call the police to help your mentally ill child get safely to a hospital or facility....then who can you call? How many innocent people have to get killed by the police before we demand they get training in how to communicate and deal with the public and the mentally ill?
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Why wasn't that mentally ill kid getting the treatment they needed BEFORE they picked up the knife or the gun? The responsibility for this stuff starts at home. Take Jared Loughner (the guy that shot Gabby Giffords) as an example. His family knew he was nuts. The school knew he was nuts. His employers knew he was nuts. His friends knew he was nuts. All these people knew he needed help but none of them made the hard decision to help him.

If you wait around for the cops to handle someone with serious mental health issues you're not being compassionate. You're merely pawning the problem off on someone else and then, maybe, complaining about the results.
 
Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Caine said:
If your child is armed with a weapon and threatening people with that weapon that has to be handled first.

If my child threatened law enforcement with a weapon and they defended themselves, Im not going to blame them.......

This whole 'THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!1111!!!ONE!!!!!" thing you are trying to pull ain't working.

Again... as I have stated.... police DO receive training in how to deal with mentally ill individuals... and nowhere in that training does it state you need to put yourself in a situation to be shot or stabbed in order to do so.

The first priority of any police officer when dealing with ANY armed person is to get them to disarm... period.... If they refused to disarm and continue to act in a threatening manner then law enforcement will have to stop that threat.



Lastly... I find it absolutely hilarious the amount of non-law enforcement knowing people who claim what the police need training in without even knowing what the **** police already have trained on in the first place.
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I disagree. How about the time when that cop went for his taser but wound up pulling out his gun and shot a man that was already down? :confused:
 
Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Lutherf said:
Why wasn't that mentally ill kid getting the treatment they needed BEFORE they picked up the knife or the gun? The responsibility for this stuff starts at home. Take Jared Loughner (the guy that shot Gabby Giffords) as an example. His family knew he was nuts. The school knew he was nuts. His employers knew he was nuts. His friends knew he was nuts. All these people knew he needed help but none of them made the hard decision to help him.

If you wait around for the cops to handle someone with serious mental health issues you're not being compassionate. You're merely pawning the problem off on someone else and then, maybe, complaining about the results.
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Well said!

:applaud
 
Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Most parents, relatives, friends, and co-workers are either in denial or too afraid to rock the boat.....so they don't.

Many of these nutjobs have fried their own brains with illegal drugs....they have done it to themselves and I have no sympathy whatsoever ...for stupid people.

None! :neutral:
 
Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Bob N said:
I disagree. How about the time when that cop went for his taser but wound up pulling out his gun and shot a man that was already down? :confused:
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Sooo, you have done the job and been through all that stress stuff on a daily basis and feel competent to do exactly the right thing... each day?

Cops are not robots and the stress of doing the job each and every day takes a toll. Some cops **** up under extreme stress....well I just can't understand why....they should receive better programming.
 
Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Caine said:
If your child is armed with a weapon and threatening people with that weapon that has to be handled first.

If my child threatened law enforcement with a weapon and they defended themselves, Im not going to blame them.......

This whole 'THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!1111!!!ONE!!!!!" thing you are trying to pull ain't working.

Again... as I have stated.... police DO receive training in how to deal with mentally ill individuals... and nowhere in that training does it state you need to put yourself in a situation to be shot or stabbed in order to do so.

The first priority of any police officer when dealing with ANY armed person is to get them to disarm... period.... If they refused to disarm and continue to act in a threatening manner then law enforcement will have to stop that threat.



Lastly... I find it absolutely hilarious the amount of non-law enforcement knowing people who claim what the police need training in without even knowing what the **** police already have trained on in the first place.
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In case you haven't noticed, mental illness is rampant in this country. So I used a real life example mentioned in the CNN link as representative of millions of families with a mentally ill family member. The point is...if families can't call the police to safely help their sick loved ones, then who can they call? I would think that not getting help for the mentally ill, is more dangerous to society than not. But if the police are just going to shoot and ask questions later then it stands to reason that fewer people are going to call them for help...and more people are going to get hurt...not less.


I didn't see anything in the article that suggested the police had any kind of training with the mentally ill whatsoever. With the few details given, the man was mentally ill...but that he didn't whack anyone when he had the opportunity suggests he could've still be reasoned with...if the police knew how to approach him without escalating the situation.
 
Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

We need only take the example of the carer who saved his mentally ill client by getting himself shot for lying on the floor with his hands up!
 
Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Caine said:
I agree..... the public should train themselves to be less aggressive and threatening to others..
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The public is being spoon fed fear and hate on a daily basis by politicians, the media and the internet. As a result they are training themselves to be more aggressive and threatening to others. How do you propose to change that?
 
Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Manc Skipper said:
We need only take the example of the carer who saved his mentally ill client by getting himself shot for lying on the floor with his hands up!
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If I recall...the police wouldn't even let the caregiver explain who he was or what the situation was before they shot him. That's just insane.
 
Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

MickeyW said:
Sooo, you have done the job and been through all that stress stuff on a daily basis and feel competent to do exactly the right thing... each day?
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No. That's what you're suggesting. But the wrong thing for that guy that got shot mistakenly by that officer's gun must have been more than a little stressful, eh?

MickeyW said:
Cops are not robots and the stress of doing the job each and every day takes a toll. Some cops **** up under extreme stress....well I just can't understand why....they should receive better programming.
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And the people the law enforcement are over are not robots either, so lets not forget that too.
 
Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Moot said:
If you can't call the police to help your mentally ill child get safely to a hospital or facility....then who can you call? How many innocent people have to get killed by the police before we demand they get training in how to communicate and deal with the public and the mentally ill?
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How about making it mandatory that parents with mentally ill children take the same training you want the police to have. That way the family can deescalate the situation. Then the parents can take the child to the facility.

Let us not forget those who are not mentally ill but are on meth or other drugs. Hard to deescalate people high on drugs. Could you tell the difference?

Seems to me some who are at home should have been placed in a facility long before they became a problem.

Just as well add all first responders to your wish list of training or everyone. After all it takes a village.:mrgreen:
 
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Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

mike2810 said:
How about making it mandatory that parents with mentally ill children take the same training you want the police to have. That way the family can deescalate the situation. Then the parents can take the child to the facility.

Let us not forget those who are not mentally ill but are on meth or other drugs. Hard to deescalate people high on drugs. Could you tell the difference?

Seems to me some who are at home should have been placed in a facility long before they became a problem.

Just as well add all first responders to your wish list of training or everyone. After all it takes a village.:mrgreen:
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Even if they wanted to, not everyone can handle someone having a psychotic episode by themselves or get them to a facility, if one is available. That's why they call the police for help. It seems only in the last decade or so that police have been shooting the mentally ill on sight without trying to understand the situation first. Hence, the need for police training to better handle the mentally ill.
 
Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Moot said:
Even if they wanted to, not everyone can handle someone having a psychotic episode by themselves or get them to a facility, if one is available. That's why they call the police for help. It seems only in the last decade or so that police have been shooting the mentally ill on sight without trying to understand the situation first. Hence, the need for police training to better handle the mentally ill.
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Well you and I have a different view of how police react to calls.

Do you favor parents getting the same training your asking for the police? Yes or No
Should the training also be for all first responders ?
How about any govt employee?

You didn't answer the question. Can you tell the difference of an out of control mentally ill person vs. one drugged out on something like meth? Yes / No.?
 
Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Bob N said:
No. That's what you're suggesting. But the wrong thing for that guy that got shot mistakenly by that officer's gun must have been more than a little stressful, eh?

And the people the law enforcement are over are not robots either, so lets not forget that too.
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I never do personally, but they are a threat to the public and need to be stopped.

Moot said:
Even if they wanted to, not everyone can handle someone having a psychotic episode by themselves or get them to a facility, if one is available. That's why they call the police for help. It seems only in the last decade or so that police have been shooting the mentally ill on sight without trying to understand the situation first. Hence, the need for police training to better handle the mentally ill.
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Now you are lying!
The cops don't shoot mentally ill people on sight. Are you getting desperate to win your silly argument?

As pointed out above, many of these idiots aren't mentally ill, they have fried their brains with illegal substances and then the families want the police to save them....and that's BS!

Nothing worse than spineless liberals wanting a bailout!
 
Re: Police fatally shoot man w/ machete inside University of Colorado's athletics cen

Moot said:
In case you haven't noticed, mental illness is rampant in this country. So I used a real life example mentioned in the CNN link as representative of millions of families with a mentally ill family member. The point is...if families can't call the police to safely help their sick loved ones, then who can they call? I would think that not getting help for the mentally ill, is more dangerous to society than not. But if the police are just going to shoot and ask questions later then it stands to reason that fewer people are going to call them for help...and more people are going to get hurt...not less.


I didn't see anything in the article that suggested the police had any kind of training with the mentally ill whatsoever. With the few details given, the man was mentally ill...but that he didn't whack anyone when he had the opportunity suggests he could've still be reasoned with...if the police knew how to approach him without escalating the situation.
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Being mentally ill is not a free pass to wield machetes in public.

It's a hard world.
 
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