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Discrimination against Transgenders Justified?, Convince me minority.

AGENT J said:
who does what?
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Layla... ignores posts that answer her question in a way that she does not like.

Of course it does, it discriminates against transgenders and gender identity. Thats not even debatable its already been proven, the only part debatable is if it will be determined that sexual identity gets protected nationally under law and when really. Im pretty certain it will. almost half the states do all read with even more counties and cites and large corporations.
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It is not proven at all... there is nothing to "prove". If a women's room is for a woman then a man is not allowed in.
 
Bodhisattva said:
1.)Layla... ignores posts that answer her question in a way that she does not like.

2.)It is not proven at all... there is nothing to "prove". If a women's room is for a woman then a man is not allowed in.
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1.) thats very possible but i havent seen it but not in the case with henrin, she just has him on ignore lol and my challenge is still out there that he completely ran from as usual. he made a claim and i asked for a link . . what happened . . a puff a smoke and he ran
2.) of course it is already proven, court cases already proved it, the only question is how much is it protected. In a general sense or in an elevated scrutiny sense like sexual orientation, race, gender, religion etc making it eventually nationally protected.
 
AGENT J said:
I doubt youll get much response from those people. They know none of their claims hold water and have been debunked. There's not justifiable reason to discriminate against transgenders on this issue. Its all the same crap history has seen before with gender, race religion sexual orientation etc etc. All nonsensical crap that nobody takes seriously lol
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It's just hard for me to imagine anybody thinks discrimination against transgenders is justified. I find it so sad.
 
gdgyva said:
you know...i am happy that you are so comfortable with yourself, and your surroundings

not everyone is....

you keep right on fighting for those rights of the few....and forgetting about the rights of the many

i dont have all the answers....but men (at least physically they are men) sharing locker rooms and facilities with young ladies (under 18) makes no sense to me

what to do? separate facilities? separate changing areas? i dunno

after 18, everyone is an adult, and i will leave it to them to make their own decisions about who they dress/undress in front of

until then, imo we need some sort of sensible plan to keep everyone's rights from being trod upon
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It has nothign to do with "comfortable", it has to do with respecting other human beings and not discriminating against them. I'm fighting for the right of all of us. If you think this is about the rights of a few vs the rights of many you seriously have no clue about the topic or how rights work. Please stop with the "penises vs little girls" schtick it doesn't sell because it's basical fantasy. Those honest about the subject understand nobody is supporting the idea that a 40 year old man should be able to openly shower next to a little girl so if he turns fast enough his penis flops off her arm, stop the nonsense. This is about transgenders and not discriminating against gender identity. All the made up fear tactic scenarios don't concern me, nor do they justify discrimination. If ypu feel it does then tell us why, tell us why it's ok to discriminate against gender identity.
 
LaylaWindu said:
Yes I know there's a bunch of threads out there about this topic but many are polluted with other topics, started as jokes or on disingenuous terms. So I wanted a thread that tries to convince the majority that there is justifiable reasons to discriminate against transgenders. The majority or people are against laws that discriminate against transgenders but it seems there are some that support it. I've read I should be scared and it puts me in danger, well I don't see how it does or how that justifies discrimination. I've read that it violates my rights as a woman but I don't know any rights that are violated by this. I've been asked if I want "these people" around me or my daughter and I don't care, I don't see how this changes the dynamics of public facilities.

As a huge participant in sports, being a collegiate athlete I have and being a "gym rat" from time to time I don't see how this changes anything. Transgenders have been using the facilities of their choice all my life and it's never been an issue. Also spending large amounts of time in these facilities I'd like to know where are all these facilities (locker rooms and showers) where there is just nudity everywhere? People's "junk" just out and about for all to see? I've never been to a facility where it wasn't one's choice to expose themselves to others or see others exposed. Have I seen nudity? Yes of course, have I been a little nude, topless for a second maybe (college sports facility locker room), yes. But it was still my choice, it's rare and I could have used a stall.

I'm just not seeing anything reasonable that changes the dynamic of public facilities and that all of a sudden puts me in danger or impacts my rights? My public facility routine and situational awareness remains unchanged. So let's hear it, convince me I'm in danger, my privacy is being violated and give me reasons that justifies discrimination against transgenders and why it should be law.
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Allowed by law, yes, for now.

Justified, no.
 
Casper said:
Allowed by law, yes, for now.

Justified, no.
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Well the good news is, it's slowly coming to an end. More than 20 states have laws protecting discrimination against gender identity now. I'd say 5 years it will be national.
 
LaylaWindu said:
Well the good news is, it's slowly coming to an end. More than 20 states have laws protecting discrimination against gender identity now. I'd say 5 years it will be national.
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Probably. Not even sure what the argument would be against it since it is not even mentioned in the Bible and there is no sin involved, so eww is not going to keep it from becoming being covered under law.
 
Casper said:
Probably. Not even sure what the argument would be against it since it is not even mentioned in the Bible and there is no sin involved, so eww is not going to keep it from becoming being covered under law.
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Ha, I like that! Anyway the bible or religion would be subjective moral objections and people may certainly have those but again like we said it doesn't justify discrimination. Religion was tried in the past as justification to discriminate, outside of the religious realm though it has no power and is meaningless. I'm religious but I would never use it to make laws or discriminate against people outside of the religious realm. Unfortunately some people don't understand those how are country works, they want special rights and treatment based on their faith.
 
OP, I recognize your intentions, but I would argue that the majority of trans discrimination, and discrimination in general, is not conscious.

People who intentionally hate don't usually out themselves like you're asking. People who don't intentionally hate aren't going to out themselves because they don't even realize they're doing it.

That's the difficulty with social prejudices. After the overt forms are addressed, the more subtle forms can be lasting. Race issues are a good example, not that they're so subtle per se.
 
Northern Light said:
OP, I recognize your intentions, but I would argue that the majority of trans discrimination, and discrimination in general, is not conscious.

People who intentionally hate don't usually out themselves like you're asking. People who don't intentionally hate aren't going to out themselves because they don't even realize they're doing it.

That's the difficulty with social prejudices. After the overt forms are addressed, the more subtle forms can be lasting. Race issues are a good example, not that they're so subtle per se.
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I agree there are people like that but has this site also proves there are ones that also openly discriminate, they are already posting here.
 
AGENT J said:
1.) thats very possible but i havent seen it but not in the case with henrin, she just has him on ignore lol and my challenge is still out there that he completely ran from as usual. he made a claim and i asked for a link . . what happened . . a puff a smoke and he ran
2.) of course it is already proven, court cases already proved it, the only question is how much is it protected. In a general sense or in an elevated scrutiny sense like sexual orientation, race, gender, religion etc making it eventually nationally protected.
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She just did it to me a few posts back...
 
LaylaWindu said:
Please stop with the "penises vs little girls" schtick it doesn't sell because it's basical fantasy. Those honest about the subject understand nobody is supporting the idea that a 40 year old man should be able to openly shower next to a little girl so if he turns fast enough his penis flops off her arm, stop the nonsense. .
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Sure some are. In fact, roguenuke has argued that exact thing.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Sure some are. In fact, roguenuke has argued that exact thing.
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Where have I argued that any man or woman (that isn't the child's parent) should be allowed to shower that close to any child? Such showers are hopefully not in use in public places or parents don't let their children use them at the least, no matter what sex a person is.


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roguenuke said:
Where have I argued that any man or woman (that isn't the child's parent) should be allowed to shower that close to any child? Such showers are hopefully not in use in public places or parents don't let their children use them at the least, no matter what sex a person is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Many times. You have argued that a person being uncomfortable around any naked person is their own fault.
 
LaylaWindu said:
Yes I know there's a bunch of threads out there about this topic but many are polluted with other topics, started as jokes or on disingenuous terms. So I wanted a thread that tries to convince the majority that there is justifiable reasons to discriminate against transgenders. The majority or people are against laws that discriminate against transgenders but it seems there are some that support it. I've read I should be scared and it puts me in danger, well I don't see how it does or how that justifies discrimination. I've read that it violates my rights as a woman but I don't know any rights that are violated by this. I've been asked if I want "these people" around me or my daughter and I don't care, I don't see how this changes the dynamics of public facilities.

As a huge participant in sports, being a collegiate athlete I have and being a "gym rat" from time to time I don't see how this changes anything. Transgenders have been using the facilities of their choice all my life and it's never been an issue. Also spending large amounts of time in these facilities I'd like to know where are all these facilities (locker rooms and showers) where there is just nudity everywhere? People's "junk" just out and about for all to see? I've never been to a facility where it wasn't one's choice to expose themselves to others or see others exposed. Have I seen nudity? Yes of course, have I been a little nude, topless for a second maybe (college sports facility locker room), yes. But it was still my choice, it's rare and I could have used a stall.

I'm just not seeing anything reasonable that changes the dynamic of public facilities and that all of a sudden puts me in danger or impacts my rights? My public facility routine and situational awareness remains unchanged. So let's hear it, convince me I'm in danger, my privacy is being violated and give me reasons that justifies discrimination against transgenders and why it should be law.
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The biggest issue I personally have with the whole concept is how it is portrayed in the non adult areas. ie: school aged children. Children of all genders should be treated equally, and to allow these right to transgenders does take away other rights from non transgenders. It has been proven that children under really 21 (but for this issue I'll say 18) are still growing and developing. They do not think as adults as their brains are still growing and developing. I think we have to respect all children, not just one specific group. With that said, I like male bathroom, female bathroom and then other bathroom which is a private room. Same with locker rooms and same with travel on field trips. Once a child leave the primary education (through high school), then we can have more flexible bathrooms etc. But until that point in age, I say no. It wouldn't be fair to all children - just transgenders and those who don't care. The people here who say what's the big deal...may not think it is a big deal. But for me, and my children it is. And for other children and their parents it is. And we have rights also.
 
EvaPeron said:
The biggest issue I personally have with the whole concept is how it is portrayed in the non adult areas. ie: school aged children. Children of all genders should be treated equally, and to allow these right to transgenders does take away other rights from non transgenders.
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Portrayed is a good word because fallacies is mostly all I see being portrayed. As for right's you'll have to tell me what rights you are talking about?
EvaPeron said:
It has been proven that children under really 21 (but for this issue I'll say 18) are still growing and developing. They do not think as adults as their brains are still growing and developing. I think we have to respect all children, not just one specific group.
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It has been proven? I'm sorry do you encounter people who debate that with you because I've never seen anybody deny what you just said.


EvaPeron said:
With that said, I like male bathroom, female bathroom and then other bathroom which is a private room. Same with locker rooms and same with travel on field trips.
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Which would be discrimination against gender identity basically targeting transgenders. Male/Female/Private bathrooms are fine by me also, many places have them but the private is for people can't deal with equality or any other issue they want to be alone, it's not to force transgenders into. If kids know who the transgender and find being in near them is icky they are free to use the private facility.

EvaPeron said:
Once a child leave the primary education (through high school), then we can have more flexible bathrooms etc. But until that point in age, I say no. It wouldn't be fair to all children - just transgenders and those who don't care. The people here who say what's the big deal...may not think it is a big deal. But for me, and my children it is. And for other children and their parents it is. And we have rights also.
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Actually it is 100% fair since you "caring" doesn't matter. Just like you "caring" doesn't matter if you don't want your kid to share restrooms classrooms etc with blacks or muslims etc. What you want is for your feelings to be given extra power and it to force certain kids to do what you want and treat them different. All you have stated is that you think your cares justifies discrimination, you'll need more than that. You also mention these rights again, please share what rights you are talking about?
 
Bodhisattva said:
Many times. You have argued that a person being uncomfortable around any naked person is their own fault.
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Which is not exactly the same as the previous argument.


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LaylaWindu said:
No thanks it YOUR claim to support but since you can't I understand.
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You are a "if a tree falls and nobody is around... does it make a sound?" Kinda person. Thats cool.
 
LaylaWindu said:
No it wasn't your claim was wrong and addressed by others already. Try again. :)
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The argument here... right now... is that YOU IGNORED IT...

You did and you still are. You can lie to yourself all you like.
 
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