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Thread: This 2013 Guardian article about Venezuela aged horribly

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    This 2013 Guardian article about Venezuela aged horribly

    I know I probably shouldn't drag out articles from 6 years ago but the moment I read it, I couldn't resist.
    Sorry, Venezuela haters: this economy is not the Greece of Latin America | Mark Weisbrot | Opinion | The Guardian

    For more than a decade people opposed to the government of Venezuela have argued that its economy would implode. Like communists in the 1930s rooting for the final crisis of capitalism, they saw economic collapse just around the corner. How frustrating it has been for them to witness only two recessions: one directly caused by the opposition's oil strike (December 2002-May 2003) and one brought on by the world recession (2009 and the first half of 2010). However, the government got control of the national oil company in 2003, and the whole decade's economic performance turned out quite well, with average annual growth of real income per person of 2.7% and poverty reduced by over half, and large gains for the majority in employment, access to health care, pensions and education.
    It seems that this article says that those opposed to socialism have been predicting Venezuela's collapse. It seems like there's merit to the economic theories pushed by those people, considering that it happened.

    Today, leftists will claim that Venezuela is not real socialism because most of the economy comes from the private sector. This article shows that these same people upheld Venezuela as an alternative to capitalism, reducing poverty and inequality.

    One thing from the article is still relevant

    Of course Venezuela is facing serious economic problems. But they are not the kind suffered by Greece or Spain, trapped in an arrangement in which macroeconomic policy is determined by people who have objectives that conflict with the country's economic recovery.
    Because now the crisis in Venezuela is even worse than the one in Greece and Spain because at least people in those countries don't have to worry about getting their next meal. Since 2014, Venezuela's GDP has been in decline. Infant mortality is now going up as medical supplies run out.
    Mortality rate, infant (per 1,000 live births) | Data

    Meanwhile, Greece is experiencing a wonky economy (though not in freefall like in Venezuela) and although Spain's economy declined for a few years, it's experiencing positive GDP growth again.

    At least the article acknowledges the country's unhealthy dependence on oil
    Venezuela – like most economies in the world – also has long-term structural problems such as overdependence on oil, inadequate infrastructure, and limited administrative capacity

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    Re: This 2013 Guardian article about Venezuela aged horribly

    Quote Originally Posted by Masterhawk View Post
    I know I probably shouldn't drag out articles from 6 years ago but the moment I read it, I couldn't resist.
    Sorry, Venezuela haters: this economy is not the Greece of Latin America | Mark Weisbrot | Opinion | The Guardian



    It seems that this article says that those opposed to socialism have been predicting Venezuela's collapse. It seems like there's merit to the economic theories pushed by those people, considering that it happened.

    Today, leftists will claim that Venezuela is not real socialism because most of the economy comes from the private sector. This article shows that these same people upheld Venezuela as an alternative to capitalism, reducing poverty and inequality.

    One thing from the article is still relevant



    Because now the crisis in Venezuela is even worse than the one in Greece and Spain because at least people in those countries don't have to worry about getting their next meal. Since 2014, Venezuela's GDP has been in decline. Infant mortality is now going up as medical supplies run out.
    Mortality rate, infant (per 1,000 live births) | Data

    Meanwhile, Greece is experiencing a wonky economy (though not in freefall like in Venezuela) and although Spain's economy declined for a few years, it's experiencing positive GDP growth again.

    At least the article acknowledges the country's unhealthy dependence on oil
    With corruption in the government, the police and rich people, it's pretty easy to predict the downfall of a country, regardless of the economical system.
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    Re: This 2013 Guardian article about Venezuela aged horribly

    "Today, leftists will claim that Venezuela is not real socialism because most of the economy comes from the private sector."

    ???

    This leftist will point out that the implication that we support "real socialism" is a straw man. I won't argue about Venezuela's form of government because the people who want real socialism number way less than the white supremacists whose numbers we are supposed to think are so low. Claims about people like me wanting real socialism are rightwing fearmongering.

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    Re: This 2013 Guardian article about Venezuela aged horribly

    Quote Originally Posted by Masterhawk View Post
    I know I probably shouldn't drag out articles from 6 years ago but the moment I read it, I couldn't resist.
    Sorry, Venezuela haters: this economy is not the Greece of Latin America | Mark Weisbrot | Opinion | The Guardian



    It seems that this article says that those opposed to socialism have been predicting Venezuela's collapse. It seems like there's merit to the economic theories pushed by those people, considering that it happened.

    Today, leftists will claim that Venezuela is not real socialism because most of the economy comes from the private sector. This article shows that these same people upheld Venezuela as an alternative to capitalism, reducing poverty and inequality.

    One thing from the article is still relevant



    Because now the crisis in Venezuela is even worse than the one in Greece and Spain because at least people in those countries don't have to worry about getting their next meal. Since 2014, Venezuela's GDP has been in decline. Infant mortality is now going up as medical supplies run out.
    Mortality rate, infant (per 1,000 live births) | Data

    Meanwhile, Greece is experiencing a wonky economy (though not in freefall like in Venezuela) and although Spain's economy declined for a few years, it's experiencing positive GDP growth again.

    At least the article acknowledges the country's unhealthy dependence on oil
    Well I guess we are lucky to have Trump then. He took care of the Venezuela situation by handing the country over to Putin. Maduro is so grateful that he is signing over oil and gas leases galore so they won't have that "burden" to worry about. It will be a nice place for Russia to put some missile bases so at least it will be put to good use.

    It is a little strange that a man who once said "We should take Iraq's oil" to hand over the country with the most oil reserves in the world to Putin without even a peep.



    Russia Rejects US Reaction to Military Cooperation with Venezuela | Venezuelanalysis.com
    Last edited by iguanaman; 08-26-19 at 02:11 AM.
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    Re: This 2013 Guardian article about Venezuela aged horribly

    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    "Today, leftists will claim that Venezuela is not real socialism because most of the economy comes from the private sector."

    ???

    This leftist will point out that the implication that we support "real socialism" is a straw man. I won't argue about Venezuela's form of government because the people who want real socialism number way less than the white supremacists whose numbers we are supposed to think are so low. Claims about people like me wanting real socialism are rightwing fearmongering.
    There are some people out there who believe in socialism. Maybe not you or most Sanders supporters but they exist.

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    Re: This 2013 Guardian article about Venezuela aged horribly

    Quote Originally Posted by Masterhawk View Post
    There are some people out there who believe in socialism. Maybe not you or most Sanders supporters but they exist.
    As I said, in America their numbers are few. They're in no danger of taking over the government. Even if we get universal healthcare, that's not socialism.

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    Re: This 2013 Guardian article about Venezuela aged horribly

    The Guardian has always been a left leaning newspaper with questionable articles and a clear bias. Their environmental coverage on climate change is just as bad.

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    Re: This 2013 Guardian article about Venezuela aged horribly

    Quote Originally Posted by Masterhawk View Post
    Today, leftists will claim that Venezuela is not real socialism because most of the economy comes from the private sector.
    The above is totally dishonest. "Chavismo" combines elements of socialism, populism, patriotism, internationalism, Bolivarianism, cultism, and endemic corruption.

    There is no equitable Chavismo-like governing system anywhere else in the world.


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    Re: This 2013 Guardian article about Venezuela aged horribly

    The difference between Greece and Spain is oil. Venezuela is sitting on a buttload of oil. It was doing great until socialism took hold, and the upper tier of socialist took their cut. Then lack of investment finished them off.

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    Re: This 2013 Guardian article about Venezuela aged horribly

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckiechan View Post
    It was doing great until socialism took hold, and the upper tier of socialist took their cut. Then lack of investment finished them off.
    That's a bunch of hooey. Venezuela experienced significant economic setbacks from 1948–1958 under Pérez Jiménez who instituted state capitalism (not liberal capitalism). Venezuela's debt grew more than 25 times within 5 years. The Jiménez government was forced out in 1958 by 2 political parties that would rule Venezuela for the next 40 years. Black Friday in 1983 saw the bolivar devalued and the people lost all of their stock wealth. This watershed event ushered in Hugo Chavez and Chavismo.


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