• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Forcing Guatemala into a 'safe third country' agreement is jaw-droppingly insane

Rogue Valley

Lead or get out of the way
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
93,618
Reaction score
81,688
Location
Barsoom
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Forcing Guatemala into a 'safe third country' agreement is jaw-droppingly insane

The agreement forces Central American migrants to apply for asylum in Guatemala instead of the US.

7/29/19
On July 25, Trump announced that the U.S. and Guatemala had signed a deal for Guatemala to receive asylum seekers from other Central American countries. Forcing Guatemala into this agreement will jeopardize the lives of tens of thousands of asylum seekers, destabilize Guatemala and the Central American region and drive migration rates even higher. Details of the plan to declare Guatemala a "safe third country" for U.S.-bound asylum seekers surfaced in mid-July. According to a draft of the original agreement, asylum seekers who present their petitions in the United States could be sent to seek asylum in Guatemala instead; this potentially includes not just Central Americans but asylum seekers from any country, even those who did not pass through Guatemala on their way to the United States. Trump officials tried initially to pressure Mexico to sign a safe third country agreement, but the Mexican government balked, even as it capitulated to Trump's tariff threats and stepped up efforts to interdict Central American migrants. So, the Trump administration turned to strong-arming Guatemala.

Why would the president of Guatemala back a deal that could turn Guatemala into a vast concentration camp for deported asylum seekers? Over the past two years, Guatemalan President Jimmy Morales has been currying favor with Trump to shore up his own embattled administration, which has been under investigation by Guatemalan prosecutors and a U.N.-backed anti-corruption commission for illicit campaign financing. Last year, Morales defied a Guatemalan court order and expelled the head of the anti-corruption commission — and the Trump administration looked the other way. Guatemala over the past decade has been a hemispheric model for its anti-impunity and anti-corruption campaigns and its inch-by-inch arduous efforts to build judicial integrity and the rule of law. But the U.S. — under Trump — is enabling a sickening unraveling of those efforts, which will not go unnoticed by other countries in the region. Forcing Guatemala into a "safe third country" agreement undermines Guatemalan sovereignty, erodes citizen security and threatens political stability in Guatemala and the region. And this, of course, is why Central American families will continue their exodus.

I certainly hope US lawyers petition a federal court to order an immediate injunction. It shouldn't be too difficult to prove that the Trump administration used coercion - threatening to raise tariffs and imposing a tax on remittances sent back to Guatemala by migrants in the United States. Quite simply, this is Trump and Stephen Miller attempting to outsource the US asylum process. Under international and US law, a "safe third country" must be exactly that, a safe and stable country. Guatemala is anything but, with gang/cartel violence and a horrific murder rate (26.1 per 100,000 people). Guatemala’s immigration laws and infrastructure are woefully inadequate and unable to meet the needs of migrants coming from other countries in Central America. In addition, any such agreement must also be approved by the Guatemala Constitutional Court which is looking unlikely. Guatemala president Jimmy Morales is a lame duck and the two candidates running to replace him are adamantly against Guatemala bending to Trumps blackmail.
 
It's called the Trump Doctrine and it is quite effective. (and there's nothing illegal about it)
 
Forcing Guatemala into a 'safe third country' agreement is jaw-droppingly insane

The agreement forces Central American migrants to apply for asylum in Guatemala instead of the US.



I certainly hope US lawyers petition a federal court to order an immediate injunction. It shouldn't be too difficult to prove that the Trump administration used coercion - threatening to raise tariffs and imposing a tax on remittances sent back to Guatemala by migrants in the United States. Quite simply, this is Trump and Stephen Miller attempting to outsource the US asylum process. Under international and US law, a "safe third country" must be exactly that, a safe and stable country. Guatemala is anything but, with gang/cartel violence and a horrific murder rate (26.1 per 100,000 people). Guatemala’s immigration laws and infrastructure are woefully inadequate and unable to meet the needs of migrants coming from other countries in Central America. In addition, any such agreement must also be approved by the Guatemala Constitutional Court which is looking unlikely. Guatemala president Jimmy Morales is a lame duck and the two candidates running to replace him are adamantly against Guatemala bending to Trumps blackmail.

This is moronic even considering the usual "Trump did it, so it's automatically wrong no matter what!!!" stuff you post. Do you really think such a situation, if true, legally invalidates an international agreement?

If so, you know very little of how international relations work, nor the history of many, many, many international agreements. (Like, say, the Iran agreement which Trump is also supposedly a villain for pulling out of.)
 
So Trump calls a country safe which he would otherwise call a ****hole teaming with MS-13 and other criminal gangs and cartels .... and he wonders why he can't broaden his support beyond the extreme right.


Thanks for spitting on the law, the country, and humanity, Mr. Trump. See you in court ... again.
 
This is moronic even considering the usual "Trump did it, so it's automatically wrong no matter what!!!" stuff you post. Do you really think such a situation, if true, legally invalidates an international agreement?

If so, you know very little of how international relations work, nor the history of many, many, many international agreements. (Like, say, the Iran agreement which Trump is also supposedly a villain for pulling out of.)

This has yet to be validated by the Guatemalan Constitutional Court as is required by Guatemalan law, so no Harshaw, this is not yet an agreement.

In addition, the political/social/financial situation within Guatemala precludes the country as a "safe third country" as defined by US/international asylum law.

If is was safe, Guatemalans wouldn't be fleeing from there by the thousands every week.
 
This has yet to be validated by the Guatemalan Constitutional Court as is required by Guatemalan law, so no Harshaw, this is not yet an agreement.

In addition, the political/social/financial situation within Guatemala precludes the country as a "safe third country" as defined by US/international asylum law.

If is was safe, Guatemalans wouldn't be fleeing from there by the thousands every week.

None of this spoke to a word of what I said. Your idea that applying pressure, economic and otherwise, on a country to get it to agree somehow invalidates the agreement, is ignorance on stilts.

As I said, how do you think the Iran agreement came about?
 
None of this spoke to a word of what I said. Your idea that applying pressure, economic and otherwise, on a country to get it to agree somehow invalidates the agreement, is ignorance on stilts.

As I said, how do you think the Iran agreement came about?

The Iran agreement came about because we agreed to STOP applying economic pressure. You can look at the current Iranian situation to see what happens when you go back on your word.
 
It's called the Trump Doctrine and it is quite effective. (and there's nothing illegal about it)

Trust me, meddling in Latin American politics to try and profit at their expense is hardly an original trump idea. And it will come back to bite him, as it always does.
 
Trust me, meddling in Latin American politics to try and profit at their expense is hardly an original trump idea. And it will come back to bite him, as it always does.

This has nothing to do with meddling in Latin American politics. This has everything to do with convincing a Latin American country to agree to actions that benefit the US. That's called "making a deal".
 
This has nothing to do with meddling in Latin American politics. This has everything to do with convincing a Latin American country to agree to actions that benefit the US. That's called "making a deal".

If you pressure a country to act against their own interests in order to profit yourself, you are meddling in their politics.
 
If you pressure a country to act against their own interests in order to profit yourself, you are meddling in their politics.

If you make it in their interest, that is a deal.

They are free to agree to the deal or not.
 
The Iran agreement came about because we agreed to STOP applying economic pressure. You can look at the current Iranian situation to see what happens when you go back on your word.

. . . you should probably think a little bit more about what you said here.
 
This has nothing to do with meddling in Latin American politics. This has everything to do with convincing a Latin American country to agree to actions that benefit the US. That's called "making a deal".

It's also called extortion. And it's why America gets a bad rep around the world. This isn't unique to Trump, he's just putting his usual stink on a tried and true method, somehow managing to make it worse in the process, simply through his involvement.

Whatever...it's clear you will applaud anything this asshole does.
 
It's also called extortion. And it's why America gets a bad rep around the world. This isn't unique to Trump, he's just putting his usual stink on a tried and true method, somehow managing to make it worse in the process, simply through his involvement.

Whatever...it's clear you will applaud anything this asshole does.

Sad innit?
 
It's called the Trump Doctrine and it is quite effective. (and there's nothing illegal about it)

Spreading your legs for any dictator who comes along while attacking American allies is considered a "doctrine" now?
 
Spreading your legs for any dictator who comes along while attacking American allies is considered a "doctrine" now?

The Trump Doctrine is better than your Trump hating spin and nonsense.

btw, do you actually KNOW what the Trump doctrine is?

I didn't think so.
 
The Trump Doctrine is better than your Trump hating spin and nonsense.

btw, do you actually KNOW what the Trump doctrine is?

I didn't think so.

Yes, I’m sure the dictators who benefit from Trump spreading his legs think it’s just great.


Btw, do you actually KNOW why the presidents—-up until Donnie Draft Dodger, that is—-didn’t suck up to anti American thugs like Putin and Kim Jong Un?

Didn’t think so
 
White House aides describe the Trump Doctrine as "principled realism".

As a practical matter, Trumps foreign policy is best described as "transactional" (i.e. Trump views the United States as rogue superpower, entirely out for itself).
 
Back
Top Bottom