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Currently a US-supported coup ongoing in Venezuela?

Evilroddy said:
Mr. Guaido and Mr. Lopez should be arrested for inciting mutiny in the Armed Forces, sedition and perhaps treason if foreign troops are found to be in Venezuela covertly. Then Maduro should be booted out by a lawful petition and recall-election in accordance with the constitution of Venezuela and should stand trial for corruption if a case can be made. Under no circumstances should the right-wing neo-liberal politicians like Lopez and Guiado be allowed to seize power unconstitutionally.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
Click to expand...

Chavez and Maduro destroyed the country. Death to the regime.
 
ecofarm said:
Chavez and Maduro destroyed the country. Death to the regime.
Click to expand...

ecofarm:

Thank you, Mr. Jingo, for your considered and well-thought out analysis of the Venezuelan Crisis. Read the history of pre-Chavez Venezuela. It was a mess then and it's a mess now. The only difference is the socialists are screwing things up rather than the right-wing dictators this time. The US and its allies are abetting the misery and suffering in Venezuela with their unconventional warfare against this and now other Latin American countries. And take a close, hard look at your local allies in the region. They're worse criminals then the bumbling Maduro by orders of magnitude.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Evilroddy said:
Mr. Guaido and Mr. Lopez should be arrested for inciting mutiny in the Armed Forces, sedition and perhaps treason if foreign troops are found to be in Venezuela covertly. Then Maduro should be booted out by a lawful petition and recall-election in accordance with the constitution of Venezuela and should stand trial for corruption if a case can be made. Under no circumstances should the right-wing neo-liberal politicians like Lopez and Guiado be allowed to seize power unconstitutionally.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
Click to expand...

Gee, you mean like the Russian mercs Maduro brought in?

Guaidó’s party is part of the Socialist International.

Funnily enough Maduro has made it quite clear he doesn’t give a **** what the law says, and those APCs crashing through the crowds only reinforced that.
 
Evilroddy said:
ecofarm:

Thank you, Mr. Jingo, for your considered and well-thought out analysis of the Venezuelan Crisis. Read the history of pre-Chavez Venezuela. It was a mess then and it's a mess now. The only difference is the socialists are screwing things up rather than the right-wing dictators this time. The US and its allies are abetting the misery and suffering in Venezuela with their unconventional warfare against this and now other Latin American countries. And take a close, hard look at your local allies in the region. They're worse criminals then the bumbling Maduro by orders of magnitude.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
Click to expand...

To keep power and remain a big talking asshole, Chavez sold domestically produced petrol at $.02/gallon (got the conversion from an article). He destroyed the country. Everyone knew that would destroy the country. No one could stop him because it made him so popular.

Chavez killed Venezuela. Death to the regime.
 
Northern Light said:
There's no official report on that, but you can bet that various intelligence communities will be taking advantage of this opportunity.

Yes, Venezuela is an oil rich country, and yes, it's oil that we want. We were already getting it through IMF usury before Maduro came to power.
Click to expand...

We were still getting it though the sanctions.
 
Evilroddy said:
Mr. Guaido and Mr. Lopez should be arrested for inciting mutiny in the Armed Forces, sedition and perhaps treason if foreign troops are found to be in Venezuela covertly. Then Maduro should be booted out by a lawful petition and recall-election in accordance with the constitution of Venezuela and should stand trial for corruption if a case can be made. Under no circumstances should the right-wing neo-liberal politicians like Lopez and Guiado be allowed to seize power unconstitutionally.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with your first sentence, must I must ask why he must be booted out if he was legitimately elected?

The post borders on a schizophrenic view somehow. In an election monitored by international observers Maduro was elected not long ago. Should he be booted out because you and Donald say so? By what authority?
 
Thoreau72 said:
I completely agree with your first sentence, must I must ask why he must be booted out if he was legitimately elected?

The post borders on a schizophrenic view somehow. In an election monitored by international observers Maduro was elected not long ago. Should he be booted out because you and Donald say so? By what authority?
Click to expand...

Thoreau72:

The Maduro Regime has gone too far. It has taken the opportunity of American and local Latin American countries' threats of military intervention to militarise the pro-Chavismo populace. It will be extremely difficult to remove the regime by future electoral means given it is now trying to create an irregular armed gendarmerie to support it and to intimidate its political rivals. So the Venezuelan electorate must decide whether to get rid of him now, before his militias and national guard become too powerful and too entrenched or to decide to let him stay and very possibly end democracy in Venezuela. The Venezuelan constitution requires any president to submit to a recall election if enough petitioners sign up on one. Venezuela is now too deeply divided for reconciliation if either Maduro maintains his power or if the Lopez-Guaido axis seize power by force. The only positive solution is for Venezuelans to vote Mr. Maduro out and to vote out the activist Lopez-Guaido, right-wing cabal which, despite its small number of seats, controls the National Assembly. If Venezuelans vote to return Maduro to power then they have made their own decision and must live with the consequences. As long as Maduro and the Lopez-Guaido axis remain at the poles of the Venezuelan political crisis there will be no peace, no reconciliation, no reform and there remains the possibility of a bloody civil war and foreign military intervention.

Not schizophrenic at all. Just pragmatic and focused on what's best for the vast majority of Venezuelans. I support neither side but see the future as finding a middle path between radical, cult of personality based Chavismo and insidious, cynical neoliberalism which will rob the Venezuelan people of their resource based patrimony. The only authority that matters is the will of the Venezuelan people and the wills of new leaderships willing to meet and work out the differences which divide the body politic there. Myself, you and President Trump should not be calling the shots; Venezuelans should.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
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1. I hope that the United States does NOT send any troops. Not one American should die fighting in Venezuela.

2. I DO hope, however, that the States gives every other kind of help to persuade His Excellency President Maduro that it is time to "retire."

a. Let's send weapons.
b. Let's send money.
c. Let's disrupt President Maduro's communications.
d. Let's order his military to withdraw their support for His Excellency.


3. If Russia and China think that they have the right to control the areas next to them, then the United States has a right to enforce the Monroe Doctrine, i.e., The Western Hemisphere is off limits to other powers, and the United States is the big brother to our little brothers in Central and South America.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Gee, you mean like the Russian mercs Maduro brought in?

Guaidó’s party is part of the Socialist International.

Funnily enough Maduro has made it quite clear he doesn’t give a **** what the law says, and those APCs crashing through the crowds only reinforced that.
Click to expand...

Tigerace117:

Venezuela is a soverign state and can act as it sees fit given the threats and unconventional warfare being directed at it by Washington DC.

Read the platform of the Popular Will Party and look at the pedigree of Leopoldo Lopez-Mendoza. The DPRK of Korea calls itself democratic but isn't and the Popular Will Party of Venezuela is not socialist in its core values. Nor for that matter is the morphed Maduro Regime which has largely betrayed the principles of the Bolivarian Revolution.

Sort of like the Renault FT-17 tanks and Adamsite poison gas used on the bonus marchers by Douglas MacArthur under the orders of the Hoover Administration in Washington DC or the tanks and APCs of the Egyptian Armed forces used to end the Morsi Regime in Egypt by reestablishing the military junta in Egypt? Sort of like the Merkava tanks and converted M-48/60 APCs in Palestine during the intifadas or the Saladin Armoured cars and armoured trucks of the British military in Ireland during the Troubles? Yeah, crap happens when rioting and civil untest break out to challenge power. Venezuela is no different. Those armoured trucks were being hit with Molotov cocktails by the crowd while they were rolling over the barrier and while some were injured in the incident no one died. To my knowledge only one person has died by being hit by a rubber bullet recently in these protests showing that despite the intensity of the protests, Venezuelan security forces are so far showing restraint in dealing with the more riotous elements of the protests.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Evilroddy said:
Tigerace117:

Venezuela is a soverign state and can act as it sees fit given the threats and unconventional warfare being directed at it by Washington DC.
Click to expand...

That is your conspiricist take on matters, not necessarily reality. If the US intended to intervene decisively, yesterday was a definite "Go".
 
Evilroddy said:
Tigerace117:

Venezuela is a soverign state and can act as it sees fit given the threats and unconventional warfare being directed at it by Washington DC.

Read the platform of the Popular Will Party and look at the pedigree of Leopoldo Lopez-Mendoza. The DPRK of Korea calls itself democratic but isn't and the Popular Will Party of Venezuela is not socialist in its core values. Nor for that matter is the morphed Maduro Regime which has largely betrayed the principles of the Bolivarian Revolution.

Sort of like the Renault FT-17 tanks and Adamsite poison gas used on the bonus marchers by Douglas MacArthur under the orders of the Hoover Administration in Washington DC or the tanks and APCs of the Egyptian Armed forces used to end the Morsi Regime in Egypt by reestablishing the military junta in Egypt? Sort of like the Merkava tanks and converted M-48/60 APCs in Palestine during the intifadas or the Saladin Armoured cars and armoured trucks of the British military in Ireland during the Troubles? Yeah, crap happens when rioting and civil untest break out to challenge power. Venezuela is no different. Those armoured trucks were being hit with Molotov cocktails by the crowd while they were rolling over the barrier and while some were injured in the incident no one died. To my knowledge only one person has died by being hit by a rubber bullet recently in these protests showing that despite the intensity of the protests, Venezuelan security forces are so far showing restraint in dealing with the more riotous elements of the protests.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
Click to expand...

Threats? Unconventional warfare? Ah, you mean the US making it clear that we wont put up with Maduro pulling a Tianamen and slaughtering the opposition and frantically trying to blame the US for the incompetence and stupidity of the Chavez and Maduro regimes, which directly lead to this situation with their incompetence and failure to diversify the Venezuelan economy.

Funnily enough, the Socialist International doesn't seem to agree with you there bud.

Ah, so it's still 1932? The Maduro regime has come through a time portal from an era where that was acceptable? The fact that you have to go back more than seventy years to invoke your whataboutism is rather funny. Remind me what position Douglas MacArthur holds in the United States government?

Trying to compare these protests to the Troubles or the situation in Palestine is absolutely pathetic bud. The two aren't even remotely similar.

"Restraint".

Glad to know you think being run over by knockoff Chinese APCs is "restrained.
 
Evilroddy said:
ecofarm:

Thank you, Mr. Jingo, for your considered and well-thought out analysis of the Venezuelan Crisis. Read the history of pre-Chavez Venezuela. It was a mess then and it's a mess now. The only difference is the socialists are screwing things up rather than the right-wing dictators this time. The US and its allies are abetting the misery and suffering in Venezuela with their unconventional warfare against this and now other Latin American countries. And take a close, hard look at your local allies in the region. They're worse criminals then the bumbling Maduro by orders of magnitude.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
Click to expand...

Mr. Jingo

Side note.

Jingoism comes from a song. The Chorus is below.

We don't want to fight but by Jingo if we do,
We've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too,
We've fought the Bear before, and while we're Britons true,
The Russians shall not have Constantinople.

End of derail...
 
Rogue Valley said:
That is your conspiricist take on matters, not necessarily reality. If the US intended to intervene decisively, yesterday was a definite "Go".
Click to expand...

Rogue Valley:

That is not just my opinion. Here are two commentators. One, the economist Jeffery Sachs explains the economic warfare. The other is a more general treatment of the matter:





This second link is part of a bigger video which runs for over 35 minutes. Only the relevant section is offered here.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Threats? Unconventional warfare? Ah, you mean the US making it clear that we wont put up with Maduro pulling a Tianamen and slaughtering the opposition and frantically trying to blame the US for the incompetence and stupidity of the Chavez and Maduro regimes, which directly lead to this situation with their incompetence and failure to diversify the Venezuelan economy.

Funnily enough, the Socialist International doesn't seem to agree with you there bud.

Ah, so it's still 1932? The Maduro regime has come through a time portal from an era where that was acceptable? The fact that you have to go back more than seventy years to invoke your whataboutism is rather funny. Remind me what position Douglas MacArthur holds in the United States government?

Trying to compare these protests to the Troubles or the situation in Palestine is absolutely pathetic bud. The two aren't even remotely similar.

"Restraint".

Glad to know you think being run over by knockoff Chinese APCs is "restrained.
Click to expand...

Tigerace117:

Yes, threats like those of John Bolton, President Donald Trump, Vice President Mike Pence, Special Envoy Elliot Abrams, President Jair Bolsonaro and Mercanary Entrepreneur Erik Prince.

Yes Unconventional Warfare (UW) including crippling economic warfare, informational warfare, political warfare to foment revolt, and irregular warfare by mutineers, proxies and mercenaries based out of Columbia and allegedly now Brazil.

Who has been slaughtered? Compared to the low casualties attributed to Venezuelans themselves on both sides, the economist Jeffery Sachs of Columbia University in my response to Rogue Valley has estimated 40,000 deaths resulting from US-led economic warfare. So yes, restraint.

The four examples given spanned almost a century. If you want more I can dump a big load more on you. Want more recent than 1932 and I'll take you on a journey of American atrocity and American proxy atrocity which will make your hair curl.

These protests are in many ways like those of Palestine and Ireland during the troubles as all involved foreign powers imposing their will on the people and lands of the locals. Egypt is similar because it was the crushing of a legally elected government. The only difference is in Venezuela it is a middle class and well-to-do revolt against a socialist state.

No one was run-over and no one died. They were pushed aside and some were injured but not run-over. Watch the video of the event. And the protesters were firebombing the vehicles at the time. There was a crowd control pump-truck which had to keep dowsing the MRAPs due to the incendiaries of the protesters. These were riots, not protests. The Venezuelan authorities have shown reasonable restraint compared with allies and proxies of the US like Israel at the Gaza March of Return protests or the Saudi/Bahraini crushing of the Arab Spring revolt in Bahrain which left thousands dead and hundreds more brutally executed after the fact.

So yes, bud. "Restraint".

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
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Evilroddy said:
Rogue Valley:

That is not just my opinion. Here are two commentators.
Click to expand...

Translation: Two talking heads whose personal views align with your own. That's precisely why Trump loves Fox.
 
Evilroddy said:
Tigerace117:

Yes, threats like those of John Bolton, President Donald Trump, Vice President Mike Pence, Special Envoy Elliot Abrams, President Jair Bolsonaro and Mercanary Entrepreneur Erik Prince.

Yes Unconventional Warfare (UW) including crippling economic warfare, informational warfare, political warfare to foment revolt, and irregular warfare by mutineers, proxies and mercenaries based out of Columbia and allegedly now Brazil.

Who has been slaughtered? Compared to the low casualties attributed to Venezuelans themselves on both sides, the economist Jeffery Sachs of Columbia University in my response to Rogue Valley has estimated 40,000 deaths resulting from US-led economic warfare. So yes, restraint.

The four examples given spanned almost a century. If you want more I can dump a big load more on you. Want more recent than 1932 and I'll take you on a journey of American atrocity and American proxy atrocity which will make your hair curl.

These protests are in many ways like those of Palestine and Ireland during the troubles as all involved foreign powers imposing their will on the people and lands of the locals. Egypt is similar because it was the crushing of a legally elected government. The only difference is in Venezuela it is a middle class and well-to-do revolt against a socialist state.

No one was run-over and no one died. They were pushed aside and some were injured but not run-over. Watch the video of the event. And the protesters were firebombing the vehicles at the time. There was a crowd control pump-truck which had to keep dowsing the MRAPs due to the incendiaries of the protesters. These were riots, not protests. The Venezuelan authorities have shown reasonable restraint compared with allies and proxies of the US like Israel at the Gaza March of Return protests or the Saudi/Bahraini crushing of the Arab Spring revolt in Bahrain which left thousands dead and hundreds more brutally executed after the fact.

So yes, bud. "Restraint".

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
Click to expand...

So in other words, again, the US making it clear that we won’t tolerate Maduro slaughtering his own people. Listing members of the US government or Brazilian government is not a “threat”. The real threat to Venezuela comes from the stupidity and incompetence of one Nicolas Maduro.

In other words, a desperate attempt to blame the US for the fact that Venezuela is falling apart despite the fact that the country starting disintegrating well before the sanctions you are crying about were applied, plus a bunch of conspiracy theories. I hate to break it to you but when your leader has runbthe country so far into the ground that you don’t have enough toilet paper, much less food or medicine, people will mutiny. Crying “political warfare” just makes you sound like a CTer loon.

Oh look, and more unsupported conspiracy theories and attempts to blame the US for the stupidity and incompetence of the Maduro regime.

Yes, they also involved four entirely different countries with very different political situations. While I’m sure you could dig up plenty of conspiracy theories, tankie fairy tales, and general screeching, none of that is relevant to Venezuela.

Lol what “foreign powers”? The situation in Venezuela is a homegrown one. Claiming foreign powers are “imposing their will” on Venezuela is flat out laughable.....unless, of course, you are talking about the fact that Moscow, Beijing and Havana are propping up the Maduro regime.

Oh, so are you volunteering to let me run you over with an APC? After all, nobody died when they got “brushed aside” so clearly it’s no big deal right? :roll:

Yes, you tankies have shown remarkable stupidity, but that’s nothing new..
 
Tigerace117 said:
So in other words, again, the US making it clear that we won’t tolerate Maduro slaughtering his own people. Listing members of the US government or Brazilian government is not a “threat”. The real threat to Venezuela comes from the stupidity and incompetence of one Nicolas Maduro.

In other words, a desperate attempt to blame the US for the fact that Venezuela is falling apart despite the fact that the country starting disintegrating well before the sanctions you are crying about were applied, plus a bunch of conspiracy theories. I hate to break it to you but when your leader has runbthe country so far into the ground that you don’t have enough toilet paper, much less food or medicine, people will mutiny. Crying “political warfare” just makes you sound like a CTer loon.

Oh look, and more unsupported conspiracy theories and attempts to blame the US for the stupidity and incompetence of the Maduro regime.

Yes, they also involved four entirely different countries with very different political situations. While I’m sure you could dig up plenty of conspiracy theories, tankie fairy tales, and general screeching, none of that is relevant to Venezuela.

Lol what “foreign powers”? The situation in Venezuela is a homegrown one. Claiming foreign powers are “imposing their will” on Venezuela is flat out laughable.....unless, of course, you are talking about the fact that Moscow, Beijing and Havana are propping up the Maduro regime.

Oh, so are you volunteering to let me run you over with an APC? After all, nobody died when they got “brushed aside” so clearly it’s no big deal right? :roll:

Yes, you tankies have shown remarkable stupidity, but that’s nothing new..
Click to expand...

Maduro obviously must have a more robust political instincts than his political opposition because I don’t see the military defecting from Maduro.
 
Evilroddy said:
Thoreau72:

The Maduro Regime has gone too far. It has taken the opportunity of American and local Latin American countries' threats of military intervention to militarise the pro-Chavismo populace. It will be extremely difficult to remove the regime by future electoral means given it is now trying to create an irregular armed gendarmerie to support it and to intimidate its political rivals. So the Venezuelan electorate must decide whether to get rid of him now, before his militias and national guard become too powerful and too entrenched or to decide to let him stay and very possibly end democracy in Venezuela. The Venezuelan constitution requires any president to submit to a recall election if enough petitioners sign up on one. Venezuela is now too deeply divided for reconciliation if either Maduro maintains his power or if the Lopez-Guaido axis seize power by force. The only positive solution is for Venezuelans to vote Mr. Maduro out and to vote out the activist Lopez-Guaido, right-wing cabal which, despite its small number of seats, controls the National Assembly. If Venezuelans vote to return Maduro to power then they have made their own decision and must live with the consequences. As long as Maduro and the Lopez-Guaido axis remain at the poles of the Venezuelan political crisis there will be no peace, no reconciliation, no reform and there remains the possibility of a bloody civil war and foreign military intervention.

Not schizophrenic at all. Just pragmatic and focused on what's best for the vast majority of Venezuelans. I support neither side but see the future as finding a middle path between radical, cult of personality based Chavismo and insidious, cynical neoliberalism which will rob the Venezuelan people of their resource based patrimony. The only authority that matters is the will of the Venezuelan people and the wills of new leaderships willing to meet and work out the differences which divide the body politic there. Myself, you and President Trump should not be calling the shots; Venezuelans should.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
Click to expand...

With this post you demonstrate disrespect for the democratic process, and/or typical North American ignorance and arrogance. Ignorance of the fact that Maduro was legitimately elected not long ago. Arrogance that you and Trump, Pence, Pompeo, Bolton and Rubio have any say at all in the running of Venezuela, or Iran or Diego Garcia or any other country in the world.

No, you're not schizophrenic, you are just venal enough to proclaim that you know better than they how to run their country.

Ignorance, in that you fail to mention a single word about the many years of sanctions against Venezuela, some beginning with Bush 43. It is our sanctions that have crippled the economy there, by design.

Shameful attitude ER.

Now people like you are harassing and interfering with those who have been attempting to deliver food and other necessities to those protestors invited into the Venezuelan embassy in Washington DC by the legitimate Maduro government.

We can add your name to the list of Trump, Pence, Pompeo, Abrams, Rubio, Bolton and others. Bravo ER.
 
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Unitedwestand13 said:
Maduro obviously must have a more robust political instincts than his political opposition because I don’t see the military defecting from Maduro.
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Exactly, I hope Trump doesn't side with the neo-con Bolton!

"President Juan Guaidó" ????
How many votes did Guaido get in the last presidential election? ZERO. Nicolas Maduro received 6 million. And, now miraculously Juan Guaido is the "president"? Only in his own mind and in the minds of the neo-cons salivating to get their hands of the natural riches of Venezuela.
Guaido is less of a president than Hillary would be if the House of Representatives declared her the president because she received 3 million more votes than Trump.
 
Tigerace117 said:
So in other words, again, the US making it clear that we won’t tolerate Maduro slaughtering his own people. Listing members of the US government or Brazilian government is not a “threat”. The real threat to Venezuela comes from the stupidity and incompetence of one Nicolas Maduro.

In other words, a desperate attempt to blame the US for the fact that Venezuela is falling apart despite the fact that the country starting disintegrating well before the sanctions you are crying about were applied, plus a bunch of conspiracy theories. I hate to break it to you but when your leader has runbthe country so far into the ground that you don’t have enough toilet paper, much less food or medicine, people will mutiny. Crying “political warfare” just makes you sound like a CTer loon.

Oh look, and more unsupported conspiracy theories and attempts to blame the US for the stupidity and incompetence of the Maduro regime.

Yes, they also involved four entirely different countries with very different political situations. While I’m sure you could dig up plenty of conspiracy theories, tankie fairy tales, and general screeching, none of that is relevant to Venezuela.

Lol what “foreign powers”? The situation in Venezuela is a homegrown one. Claiming foreign powers are “imposing their will” on Venezuela is flat out laughable.....unless, of course, you are talking about the fact that Moscow, Beijing and Havana are propping up the Maduro regime.

Oh, so are you volunteering to let me run you over with an APC? After all, nobody died when they got “brushed aside” so clearly it’s no big deal right? :roll:

Yes, you tankies have shown remarkable stupidity, but that’s nothing new..
Click to expand...

Tigerace117:

Like most Latin American countries Venezuela has a real problem with police and security forces using extrajudicial killings on the urban poor. But in terms of political killings and mowing down peaceful protesters Venezuela is restrained compared to its neighbours which the US Government has aligned itself with.

Venezuela crisis: UN says security forces killed hundreds - BBC News

Colombian army killed thousands more civilians than reported, study claims | World news | The Guardian

Brazil: Police Killings at Record High in Rio | Human Rights Watch

The Venezuelan Government is not the monster here. It has used reasonable restraint in dealing with riotous protestors and has killed comparatively few people in protests, about equal in number to the protesters themselves. If you want to find monstrous regimes in the region look to Colombia whose armed forces killed between 3500-10,000 innocent civilians to inflate COIN body-counts between 2002 and 2010. This is known as the "False Postive" programme and scandal. The total number of Columbians extrajudicial killed sits at between 25,000 and 28,000 dead for that period of time IIRC. Or look to Brazil which has already killed 895 of its own citizens in six months of 2018 (just over half being extrajudicial killings of poor, young men in cities) and whose president Jair Bolsonaro is pledging to increase the killing of what he has called human vermin. Finally look to your own country which has killed millions of innocent people all over the world since 1945, the last war your country bothered to actually declare.

In the killing game Venezuela is a bit player compared to the states which are claiming humanitarian motives for involving themselves forcefully in Venezuela's internal affairs.

Tankie? I had to look that one up. I am not a Stalinist nor a Russiaphile/Soviet-fanboy. I despise Mr Putin's regime and its rampant militarism. I have even advocated ro rearming Ukrainevwith nuclear weapons to deter Russian aggression and to force a bilateral negotiation and settlement to the Ukraine a Crisis. But once again it is a very junior competitor to the militarism and to the harm done around the world by the US Government and European militarists. A pox on all your houses.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
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Thoreau72 said:
With this post you demonstrate disrespect for the democratic process, and/or typical North American ignorance and arrogance. Ignorance of the fact that Maduro was legitimately elected not long ago. Arrogance that you and Trump, Pence, Pompeo, Bolton and Rubio have any say at all in the running of Venezuela, or Iran or Diego Garcia or any other country in the world.

No, you're not schizophrenic, you are just venal enough to proclaim that you know better than they how to run their country.

Ignorance, in that you fail to mention a single word about the many years of sanctions against Venezuela, some beginning with Bush 43. It is our sanctions that have crippled the economy there, by design.

Shameful attitude ER.

Now people like you are harassing and interfering with those who have been attempting to deliver food and other necessities to those protestors invited into the Venezuelan embassy in Washington DC by the legitimate Maduro government.

We can add your name to the list of Trump, Pence, Pompeo, Abrams, Rubio, Bolton and others. Bravo ER.
Click to expand...

Thoreau72:

Democracy is a very fragile thing, especially in countries which do not have the solid institutions and the mind-set to safeguard their democracy. The Venezuelan Constitution provides a recall election option allowing the people to petition he TSJ (Supreme Court) to dissolve the Presidency of a sitting president and to have a recall election within thirty consecutive days of the dissolution in which the removed incumbent can run. Chavez was recalled and had the guts to run and won. President Maduro should follow his mentor's example and move to defend his presidency by peaceful democratic means rather than by force of arms. A simultaneous national election for the a National Assembly should also happen in order to give moderate Venezuelans a chance to elect a National Assembly which will work to reform Venezuela peacefully. The likely outcome would be an end to the Maduro Regime but the maintenance of Chavismo in Venezuela and a purge of the violent elements in the National Assembly. That would make room for political, rather than military, solutions mandated by the Venezuelan people themselves. That's a good thing.

Venezuela is on the verge of civil war and its population is becoming increasingly radicalised and polarised. This polarisation has gone past political divisions to deep and irrational factional hatreds. The Maduro Regime has taken the very real threat of outside military intervention as an opportunity to arm large numbers (approx. 2 million) paramilitary Colectivos to enforce his rule. The opposition is calling for and receiving arms for military mutineers and for opposition paramilitaries to fight the regime. Both sides are gearing-up for a fight and that will quickly escalate into a bloody and protracted civil war which will almost certainly kill democracy in Venezuela for a long time to come. There are many Venezuelans on the left, on the right and in the centre who are willing to negotiate with each other to fix the mess caused by the Maduro Regime and outside state intervention and to make those fixes peacefully and constitutionally. That is a much better option than standing on some abstract principle and plunging the State of Venezuela into a fratricidal civil war where power will be kept or transferred by force of arms.

War is the shameful option in this crisis and moderation is the one grace which can avoid war and save democracy in Venezuela.

I have constantly mentioned the sanctions, restraint of trade and unconventional warfare being waged against Venezuela since 1998. So you are way off base there.

I have never harassed or interfered with legitimate aid being brought to Venezuela and have sharply criticised the seizure of Venezuelan state assets which could be used to buy such aid by the Venezuelan state itself. I have written in support of the peaceful preventative occupation of the Washington DC Venezuelan Embassy by peace activists seeking to block the entry of the pretender Guaido's appointees. You should be more careful in throwing around baseless accusations.

You can add my name to any list you want but I vehemently oppose US militarism and the wreckless actions of President Trump, Vice President Pence, Sect. of State Pompeo, Nat. Sec. advisor Bolton, Special Envoy Abrams, intusive meddler Rubio and maniacal mercenary Erik Prince for their positions, policies and misdeeds regarding Venezuela.

You really ought to read my many posts on Venezuela before declaring me to be something I am not.

No cheers for you.
Evilroddy.
 
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ecofarm said:
To keep power and remain a big talking asshole, Chavez sold domestically produced petrol at $.02/gallon (got the conversion from an article). He destroyed the country. Everyone knew that would destroy the country. No one could stop him because it made him so popular.

Chavez killed Venezuela. Death to the regime.
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The question in my mind is whether the proposed alternative is better.
 
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