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Venezuela Forces Reportedly Open Fire on Civilians at Closed Brazil Border

Rogue Valley

Rogue Valley

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Venezuela Forces Reportedly Open Fire on Civilians at Closed Brazil Border

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Pallets of humanitarian supplies destined for Venezuela sit in a Columbia warehouse.

2/22/19
One person has reportedly died and 12 have been injured after a clash at Venezuela’s now-closed border with Brazil. Embattled Venezuela President Nicolás Maduro ordered that his country’s border with Brazil be closed “completely and absolutely” in an escalating fight over foreign humanitarian aid. On Friday morning, Venezuelan soldiers reportedly fired at civilians who were attempting to keep a segment of the border open to help deliver international relief. Maduro doesn’t want aid brought in because he insists there isn’t any crisis and has called the aid-delivery plans a publicity stunt orchestrated by the United States. Opposition leader Juan Guaidó is leading a convoy from the capital, Caracas, to the Colombian border to collect the food and medicine being stockpiled there. Many Venezuelans rushed to the Brazilian city of Pacaraima to stock up on supplies after the announcement. Later in his TV address, Maduro threatened to close the Colombia border next if the aid efforts continue.
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Maduro has now spilled blood to prevent international humanitarian supplies from reaching Venezuela's starving populace.

Related: Venezuela Closes Border to 3 Caribbean Islands Ahead of Aid Showdown
 
Someone might reply to this thread with a comment along the lines of “this is the way socialist nations maintain power” or “nothing says ‘quality of life’ quite like shooting your own people who are trying to get humanitarian aid which is being sent to them”.

Someone might do that but I sure wouldn’t because I find these political lessons to be really, really valuable for those that choose to learn from them.
 
But thats only because socialism hasnt been done 'the right way'.

Meanwhile...the idiot leftists in this country are championing socialist politicians hell bent on rushing us headlong into becoming the next Venezuela. Our only real long term hope is that there are enough sane democrats left to keep those ****ing morons in check.
 
VanceMack said:
But thats only because socialism hasnt been done 'the right way'.

Meanwhile...the idiot leftists in this country are championing socialist politicians hell bent on rushing us headlong into becoming the next Venezuela. Our only real long term hope is that there are enough sane democrats left to keep those ****ing morons in check.
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What does this have to do with socialism? Did we endure the Great Depression because capitalism wasn't done 'the right way?'
 
lwf said:
What does this have to do with socialism? Did we endure the Great Depression because capitalism wasn't done 'the right way?'
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What does the collapse of (every) socialist system have to do with socialism?

:lamo
 
VanceMack said:
What does the collapse of (every) socialist system have to do with socialism?

:lamo
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Not every socialist system has collapsed. That said, every single previous civilization in history has collapsed, with or without socialism. Does that make civilization a bad idea? Correlation does not imply causation.
 
lwf said:
Not every socialist system has collapsed. That said, every single previous civilization in history has collapsed, with or without socialism. Does that make civilization a bad idea? Correlation does not imply causation.
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Its always amazing to me the number of people living in a capitalist system that long to be Cuba. Of course...the promise of weak people being taken care of by the government at the expense of the successful must be quite an aphrodisiac.
 
VanceMack said:
Its always amazing to me the number of people living in a capitalist system that long to be Cuba. Of course...the promise of weak people being taken care of by the government at the expense of the successful must be quite an aphrodisiac.
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I don't long to be in Cuba, and am not a socialist. I don't want the United States to become a socialist country, mainly because I believe that regulated capitalism is good for the economy. However, I also do not think that socialism is the problem in Cuba or in Venezuela, nor do I believe that free market capitalism would in any way solve their problems. Dictatorship is the problem, and a dictator can arise in any economic system.
 
The villagers, many of whom are indigenous peoples, attempted to block Venezuelan security and military forces from closing the frontier. Violence escalated and at least two people were killed, at least 15 others wounded, three Venezuelan soldiers were captured and held by the villagers and no aid was involved directly in the incident.

Venezuela: President Maduro’s forces fight with citizens in aid clash - Vox

Was this right? No. Should there be an investigation? Yes. But given the state of apprehended invasion under which Venezuela is in, was it prudent for these villagers to forcefully attempt to stop the Venezuelan government from closing its own frontier? No. This is why the International Red Cross and the United Nations have strongly condemned using humanitarian aid as a political tool for regime change and possibly as a pretext for armed intervention by outside powers.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Lutherf said:
Someone might reply to this thread with a comment along the lines of “this is the way socialist nations maintain power” or “nothing says ‘quality of life’ quite like shooting your own people who are trying to get humanitarian aid which is being sent to them”.

Someone might do that but I sure wouldn’t because I find these political lessons to be really, really valuable for those that choose to learn from them.
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As you well know but are too disingenuous (and dishonest) to acknowledge, there are differing degrees of Socialism.

The socialism of Norway looks nothing like the socialism of Venezuela.
 
Rogue Valley said:
As you well know but are too disingenuous (and dishonest) to acknowledge, there are differing degrees of Socialism.

The socialism of Norway looks nothing like the socialism of Venezuela.
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Primarily because Norway isn't even socialist, it's social democratic.

Anyway, this shooting is disgraceful, and it's also disgraceful that Bernie Sanders, a Democratic front-runner for president, is an apologist for Maduro.
 
Soldiers loyal to Maduro shot and killed unarmed Venezuelan citizens.

This is an undeniable comment on how desperate life has become for the masses suffering under the Maduro regime.
 
The first rule of Socialism is that our version of Socialism is nowhere near as bad as the other guy's version of Socialism.

Heck, Maduro's version of Socialism didn't include shooting international aid workers who were trying to help his people until, of course, he did start shooting international aid workers who were helping his people.
 
Lutherf said:
The first rule of Socialism is that our version of Socialism is nowhere near as bad as the other guy's version of Socialism.
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Says Luther. Gee, how impressive is that?
 
lwf said:
What does this have to do with socialism? Did we endure the Great Depression because capitalism wasn't done 'the right way?'
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lwf said:
Not every socialist system has collapsed. That said, every single previous civilization in history has collapsed, with or without socialism. Does that make civilization a bad idea? Correlation does not imply causation.
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You are way over his pay grade.
 
You seem to forget Luther that I authored this thread. And others in this forum that are anti-Maduro. Where have you been brother?

And to state that socialism is monolithic-one-size-fits-all ... is just plain dishonest and silly.
 
I wonder if Old Man Bernie supports this...along with breadlines and Castro.
 
Rogue Valley said:
You seem to forget Luther that I authored this thread. And others in this forum that are anti-Maduro. Where have you been brother?

And to state that socialism is monolithic-one-size-fits-all ... is just plain dishonest and silly.
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While I certainly agree that one guy's Socialism isn't the same as another guy's Socialism it does all stem from a few basic principles. The differences aren't so much different versions of Socialism as they are differences on where the particular ideologue is on the Socialism spectrum. While not every Socialist has a Leninist view of Socialism the Socialist need to control the outcomes of political, economic and social processes inevitably leads to a Leninist path.
 
Lutherf said:
While I certainly agree that one guy's Socialism isn't the same as another guy's Socialism it does all stem from a few basic principles. The differences aren't so much different versions of Socialism as they are differences on where the particular ideologue is on the Socialism spectrum. While not every Socialist has a Leninist view of Socialism the Socialist need to control the outcomes of political, economic and social processes inevitably leads to a Leninist path.
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Most European countries have various degrees of socialist tendencies, yet which of these EU/NATO nations are marching down the Marxist-Leninist path?

A abhor the Chavez/Maduro version of socialism. But shoehorning all versions of socialism into one convenient niche is just wrong both realistically and contemporaneously.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Most European countries have various degrees of socialist tendencies, yet which of these EU/NATO nations are marching down the Marxist-Leninist path?

A abhor the Chavez/Maduro version of socialism. But shoehorning all versions of socialism into one convenient niche is just wrong both realistically and contemporaneously.
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It doesn't matter what type of socialism, the practice of raising the taxes on those who have been very prosperous to pick up the tab on government spending is a common denominator. And when it reaches the point where the goose that lays the golden eggs producing jobs for many get tired of it, they pick up and move on to places where they get a fair break.


Yes most countries in Europe do practice a form of socialism. France and others are losing their wealthy because of taxes and they are either selling their companies to investors in places like China or they are uprooting their companies and relocating where they get a more fair deal.

It is no different in many blue states in the US where they are not friendly to business or high earners. There's an exodus from California, NY, Illinois and others where the income tax revenue comes primarily from the state’s highest earners. But these top-earning persons are fleeing the cash-strapped states, which puts the future income-tax revenue stream in jeopardy.

Bottom line any form of socialism robs people of liberty and freedom. Any form of socialism is a stepping stone to communism.
 
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