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Thousands of immigrants pass through the Southern border. Why are they fleeing their home countries?

Rogue Valley

Rogue Valley

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Thousands of immigrants pass through the Southern border. Why are they fleeing their home countries?

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Gang violence in El Salvador.

6/25/18
Every day thousands of migrants pass through the U.S. Southern border. Some travel as far as 1,000 miles, walking through deserts and carrying water jugs and the small possessions they need to start a new life. It is a perilous journey that isn't for the faint of heart: More than 400 died trying to make it to the U.S. last year, according to the United Nations’ migration agency. So why are they risking their lives and the possibility of being separated from family? While Mexico is the country most-often talked about in the immigration debate, many of those crossing the border are traveling from Central American countries synonymous with corruption, crime and poverty. These root problems have been a driving force for years for immigrants to make the journey to the U.S. Since October, more than 58,000 have arrived, the bulk from Guatemala, followed by Honduras and El Salvador. It doesn't take much to understand why those living in the so-called Northern Triangle countries — El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras — would want to leave. El Salvador was the murder capital of the world with a staggering rate of 104 people per 100,000 in 2015. The country still has a higher homicide rate than all countries suffering armed conflict except for Syria, according to the most recent global study by the Switzerland-based Small Arms Survey. Similarly, residents of Honduras live in fear because of extortion and criminals demanding a "war tax," which, if not paid, could mean death.

Lawlessness rules many of these countries where immigrants flee, and drug cartels, gangs and bribes are part of everyday life that runs similar to war zones in some areas. The groups enforce informal curfews, demand taxes and force recruitment on young people. The number of people displaced in the nation of 6.5 million by turf battles between El Savador's two biggest gangs, MS-13 and Barrio 18, skyrocketed last year to 296,000, according to the Norwegian Refugee Council. Last year, 35 bus drivers, passengers and fare collectors were killed while riding buses into gang-controlled neighborhoods, while those that were spared a bullet were extorted to the tune of $19 million, according to the Salvadoran public transport owners’ association. In Central America, the formation of gangs that now control parts of Central America stems back to civil conflicts that engulfed the region during the Cold War. The wars left a legacy of weak institutions that criminals were quick to exploit.
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Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador are now virtually ruled by parallel gang governments. Sexual assault, extortion, and murder occur with impunity. Failure to submit to gang taxation/extortion results in a fatal bullet or having a limb hacked off by a machete. Nicaragua is currently in the throes of a civil war. Venezuela in South America is a failed state. The options for most civilians in these lawless countries is simple; either stay and face almost certain rape, mutilation, or death, or flee 1,000 miles on foot seeking asylum in the US.

I personally view gangs such as MS-13 and Barrio 18 as no better than ISIS. Yet the Trump administration is not attacking these plague's at their core. The Trump administration has cut foreign aid to Central American nations by 40-45%. US security/military assistance to the region has steadily eroded since 2007. DEA operations in South and Central America have declined. Why? Why complain about refugees fleeing the violence when you do little to assist the volatile region and refuse to take the fight against organized gangs to their home turf? It makes little sense.

Related: Trump proposes deep U.S. spending cuts in Mexico, Central America
 
Kal'Stang said:
Simple question.

Is the USA the worlds police and care givers?
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And if Trump had proposed we BE the worlds police and intervene in those ****hole countries, how would his opponents respond?
 
VanceMack said:
And if Trump had proposed we BE the worlds police and intervene in those ****hole countries, how would his opponents respond?
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Are you against humane treatment for those who wish to enter this country? Do you believe in following the laws of this country?
 
Kal'Stang said:
Yes, we do have laws. And those laws are being followed. What's your point?
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maybe you can direct me to the law that requires the separation of children from their parents.
 
VanceMack said:
And if Trump had proposed we BE the worlds police and intervene in those ****hole countries, how would his opponents respond?
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In other words if Trump had kept things as they were before he got in office? They obviously wouldn't be saying a thing.
 
Floridafan said:
Are you against humane treatment for those who wish to enter this country? Do you believe in following the laws of this country?
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That's rich considering you seem to have no problem with people that break the law and enter the country illegally. Often multiple times.
 
Kal'Stang said:
That's rich considering you seem to have no problem with people that break the law and enter the country illegally. Often multiple times.
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You have no idea what I favor or support, so cut the BS
 
Kal'Stang said:
That's rich considering you seem to have no problem with people that break the law and enter the country illegally. Often multiple times.
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We have laws to deal with these situations, and they do not include separating children from their parents
 
Kal'Stang said:
That's rich considering you seem to have no problem with people that break the law and enter the country illegally. Often multiple times.
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It’s a question of finding a more reasonable method of handling these cases than separating families and mass incarceration to prosecute the legal equivalent of littering or running a stop sign.
 
The elephant in the room has been there since the beginning, our so called "War on Drugs" created this mess.

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Because of how we have tried to police this to date (which is basically control the Gulf of Mexico and try to control the border with Mexico) we have forced the flow of drugs up from South America through a choke point of Nicaragua, Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador (and others) on their way up through Mexico and ultimately into the US anyway.

Gangs in these nations have done what organized crime always does when something is illegal but has a demand, fulfill and control the supply. Which means violence and/or interaction with governments in Nicaragua, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, some in Costa Rica, some in Panama, plenty all over Mexico, in plenty of US cities coast to coast, etc.

The US is still the primary consumer of these drugs and as such there will be continued interest in trying to control the supply of those drugs until we wake up and realize that like so many times before we created our own fiasco. Our spending on the so called War on Drugs crosses swim lanes with our Foreign Aid policy to these very nations which crosses swim lanes with our military spending (the list goes on) all in a futile effort to deal with the economic and social implications of this stupid war not just here in the US but in nations all over the Americas.

So now we have an immigration mess from these very nations where local conditions in these nations have devolved to utter ****, and we wonder why we see all these implications.

The solution is obvious. Change the very reason why MS-13, Barrio 18, and so many others exist in the first place by ending this stupidity that has been going on since the 1970's that has seen no measurable success yet plenty of fall out impacting everything from local law enforcement to immigration to foreign policy to our own fiscal condition and to our own social and economic climate.

This was failed, what we see today is a direct cause of it.
 
The Drug War had a lot to do with creating this mess, and keeping it going.

If you hit supply and ignore demand, you will never win.

What hurt the Mafia more than anything was ending Prohibition. We need to end the Drug War, and put money into treatment and recovery, not prisons.
 
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Floridafan said:
Are you against humane treatment for those who wish to enter this country? Do you believe in following the laws of this country?
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Follow the laws. There is a novel idea. ALL the laws. Including the laws requiring the deportation of illegal immigrants.

Do you believe in following the laws of this country?
 
Napoleon said:
It’s a question of finding a more reasonable method of handling these cases than separating families and mass incarceration to prosecute the legal equivalent of littering or running a stop sign.
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legal equivalence....huh...that is a new one

so the 12 million illegals in this country....

are they are net positive or negative on the economy?

how about what they cost in health care at the emergency rooms....

what they cost to school the kids?

how is your county doing? black ink or red?

we, as a country, ask millions to come from all over the globe to join us...and they come...some after waiting years and years

we also have rules on taking in refugees....

but the illegal migration has to stop....

we need to get a handle on our economy...our issues

we cant fix the world....it isnt possible, just as it isnt possible anymore for us to be the worlds police force

time for others to step up...take some of the brunt of the cost....and see what they can do
 
Kal'Stang said:
In other words if Trump had kept things as they were before he got in office? They obviously wouldn't be saying a thing.
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Well...I think before with the catch and release bull**** we were just playing safety net, but we werent stepping in to police their countries.

I have always found it odd as an American that so many of my fellow Americans believe the best way we can help people from other countries deal with struggles in their own countries is help them abandon their countries.
 
VanceMack said:
Follow the laws. There is a novel idea. ALL the laws. Including the laws requiring the deportation of illegal immigrants.

Do you believe in following the laws of this country?
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Obviously you don't know what you are even talking about. Illegal immigrants are deported after they have gone through our legal system.
 
Napoleon said:
It’s a question of finding a more reasonable method of handling these cases than separating families and mass incarceration to prosecute the legal equivalent of littering or running a stop sign.
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So what would you do? In the past we have let people that come into the US illegally out and about requiring that they come back on their court dates. VERY FEW ever actually made it to the court room. The rest fled across the country. And not all illegal immigrants that this happens to is a first time offender. Which means its a felony...hardly the equivalent of littering or running a stop sign huh?

Not to mention even the first time offenders often break other laws which are not the equivalent of littering. Like using stolen SSN's (identity theft, a felony) or using fake SSN's (felony fraud).
 
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