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Racism

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oneworld2 said:
You are right about one thing................you could post a whole raft of verses from the Koran and it wouldn't change my opinion. People resist those who seek to dispossess and displace them regardless of religious preferences. It's happened since humans first raided eachothers territories and can be seen today regardless of colour or creed.

I would also argue that the reacton to the Western dominations over and slaughtering of Muslims of late has been slow and pathetic ...............but I don't expect someone so lost to their own biases to understand that for one instant
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You just conformed one of my points, You know nothing about Islam.
Why would I post verses from the Qur'an,
I could, but there are only 10 or so, I could use for this situation. Maybe a little more, but just leaving wiggle room.
But I could post several hundreds from the Sunnah, and the teachings of Muhammed.
An entire storyline.
 
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Good4Nothin said:
Jews and Arabs are NOT different races. So how can anyone accuse a Jew or Arab of racism when they criticize the other? And how can either side be accused of genocide when they try to kill the other?

The accusation of racism is being applied to almost every conflict these days. It makes debating really easy, but it also makes it stupid.

Jews and Arabs differ cultural and ethnically. But race has absolutely nothing to do with it.

The P/I argument should be unemotional, non-ideological, and scientific. What can we understand from the long history? How an we evade bias and judgementalism?

I think we should start with the premise that neither side is all bad and neither is all good.

There is a leftist narrative that says Israel is an oppressive colonial power. I think we should be very skeptical of that narrative. They also portray the Palestinians as innocent indigenous people, which seems very inaccurate.

Is there any way to get past the bias and anger and see the situation more objectively?
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You have already started with bias. I notice you didn't mention the large portion of Christians supporting Israel based on the end of days nonsense. Of course that doesn't fit your narrative.
 
oneworld2 said:
The first Arab attacks on Jews in Palestine predate the state itself by decades and were the result of the obvious effect the realisation of Zionism would have on the people that had lived there for centuries before.

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas , why do you think they might ?

Did you know that around 2-3 hundred thousand Arabs had either fled or been forced out of Palestine before any outside Arab army entered the war in 1948 ?

My guess is that if I racked up in your country with a view to forcing you out and settling there myself and claiming it as my own you would resist that action , no ? If you were then forced into poverty and/or homelessness as a result you wouldn't just passively accept it either .

That this is having to be explained is pretty sad for soemone who claims to be pretty reasonable
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You actually believe that Jews were forcing Arabs out of Palestine before Israel was ever attacked? Where are you getting this from????
 
Racism is a global power dynamic. It touches everyone. There is no escape and no one gets out free. White people are blinded. Black people are oppressed. Society fails to reach its potential. There are no winners.

To pretend anything is free of racism is to be an idiot.
 
Hari Seldon said:
You have already started with bias. I notice you didn't mention the large portion of Christians supporting Israel based on the end of days nonsense. Of course that doesn't fit your narrative.
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I don't care about Christians' end of days nonsense. WHY SHOULD I?
 
oneworld2 said:
You do yourself something of a dis service by trying to act as though you don't understand the goal post shift when it was set out for you so explicitly............so I will set it out again for you in the same way because it is impossible to simplify it further

"You have moved the goal posts from suicide bombings to " attacks on Israel " ....
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Dude, are you denying that repeated suicide bombings on Israel are an attack on that nation?
 
Good4Nothin said:
I don't care about Christians' end of days nonsense. WHY SHOULD I?
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Actually "End of days" nonsense is a major part of the equation here, however it is on the Muslim side.
 
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Good4Nothin said:
The Palestinian peasants were extremely poor and oppressed. They did not own their land -- it was owned by rich Arabs. The peasants lived a backwards and dangerous life. There was no nation, no law, and it was over-run by raiding nomads.

At least, that is the version of the story I have seen. The new, fantasy, version romanticizes the Palestinians.
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Without the Jews the lands were still desert, even some of the Arabs knew they needed the Jews due to their knowledge. The Jews turned the desert to heaven.
 
NO1 said:
Without the Jews the lands were still desert, even some of the Arabs knew they needed the Jews due to their knowledge. The Jews turned the desert to heaven.
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They also brought law and peace. The Palestinian peasants had NOTHING. They did NOT own their land. They were indebted to the rich Arab landowners. It was feudal. There was no nation, no government. The Palestinian peasants did NOT lose a prosperous and peaceful way of life. They had nothing, so they lost nothing.
 
Yasureoktoo said:
I think Saudi Arabia should give Medina back to the Jews.
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Right, Israel also should insist on the right to return for the 850.000 Jews (and their descendants which is about couple milions) who have been expelled in the next negotiation. :lol:
 
Good4Nothin said:
They also brought law and peace. The Palestinian peasants had NOTHING. They did NOT own their land. They were indebted to the rich Arab landowners. It was feudal. There was no nation, no government. The Palestinian peasants did NOT lose a prosperous and peaceful way of life. They had nothing, so they lost nothing.
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All good points, but to clarify; there never was a nation of “Palestine”. There was the Ottoman Empire and then, when they chose the wrong side in WWI, the Brits and the French struck a secret deal to carve up the Ol’ Empire for themselves. The “Palestinians” were in the British section until the Jews convinced them to leave.
 
Good4Nothin said:
They also brought law and peace. The Palestinian peasants had NOTHING. They did NOT own their land. They were indebted to the rich Arab landowners. It was feudal. There was no nation, no government. The Palestinian peasants did NOT lose a prosperous and peaceful way of life. They had nothing, so they lost nothing.
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They saw themselves as part of Syria, here are the words of Awni Abd al-Hadi, member of the Palestinian Arab delegation to the United Kingdom, which testified to the Peel Commission:
There is no such country [as Palestine].... Palestine is a term the Zionists invented.... Our country was for centuries part of Syria.
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Yasureoktoo said:
You just conformed one of my points, You know nothing about Islam.
Why would I post verses from the Qur'an,
I could, but there are only 10 or so, I could use for this situation. Maybe a little more, but just leaving wiggle room.
But I could post several hundreds from the Sunnah, and the teachings of Muhammed.
An entire storyline.
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Understanding why people resist a foreign takeover of their land requires no knowledge of religious texts because regardless of colour or creed it is a natural human reaction. Your wish to ignore that so as to confirm your own anti Muslim bias IS the point.

Did you start studying Islam with the advent of the second US sponsored war on terrorism by any chance ?
 
Good4Nothin said:
You actually believe that Jews were forcing Arabs out of Palestine before Israel was ever attacked? Where are you getting this from????
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By neighbouring Arab states in 1948 ? absolutely.

Where does it come from ?

It comes from Israeli historians that accessed in the 1980's the , hitherto unseen , Zionist archives from that very period and prior to it .

Where are you getting all of this........." the Jews bought all of Israel " nonsense ?
 
oneworld2 said:
Understanding why people resist a foreign takeover of their land requires no knowledge of religious texts because regardless of colour or creed it is a natural human reaction. Your wish to ignore that so as to confirm your own anti Muslim bias IS the point.

Did you start studying Islam with the advent of the second US sponsored war on terrorism by any chance ?
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Actually no, I started after 9/11.

The problem here is just about all religious, nothing else.
If not for the religion the people could have prospered together.

Instead they are forever divided, with no hope of ever joining hands.
 
oneworld2 said:
By neighbouring Arab states in 1948 ? absolutely.

Where does it come from ?

It comes from Israeli historians that accessed in the 1980's the , hitherto unseen , Zionist archives from that very period and prior to it .
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Oh really? And where is it? So secret that you can't give us a link? Show is the proof that Jews were attacking Arabs before Arabs ever attacked Jews.
 
Rising Sun said:
Dude, are you denying that repeated suicide bombings on Israel are an attack on that nation?
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Stop it!

You claimed that " the Palestinians " are a death cult who engage in suicide bombings and I reminded you and others here that those who have engaged in suicide bombings are but a tiny minority of the Palestinian people and that the acts themselves constitute a even smaller fraction of the " attacks on Israel "

You tried to paint the Palestinians as death cult suicide fanatics , not some , but all of them as per the use of the term " the Palestinians ". This is the domain of the bigoted. They use the actions of the minority with which to smear the entire group , standard bigoted hogwash.

Not only that you then remove the context in the same bid to demonize the entire group. The context is that since the advent of Zionism and the dispossession and displacement of the Palestinians it engendered , not to mention the deaths of tens of thousands of them and the banishment of what has turned into millions along with the wholesale violations of the rights of millions in the OPTs , Palestinians have been resisting it , sometimes legitimately often times illegitimately.

You miss out that context so that the Palestinians appear as odious automatons predesposed to commit violent illegal acts which also fits in with all of that suicide bombing smearing of " the Palestinians " you engaged in earlier.

The only thing being denied is your own bigoted view of the Palestinians by yourself.
 
Yasureoktoo said:
Actually no, I started after 9/11.

The problem here is just about all religious, nothing else.
If not for the religion the people could have prospered together.

Instead they are forever divided, with no hope of ever joining hands.
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Just as I thought. The school of objective wouldbe scholars that started studying the Koran after members of that religion decided to attack the US with planes in the biggest terrorist attack in history and have been using that as their yardstick to understand Islam/Muslims everywhere ever since.
 
oneworld2 said:
Stop it!



You tried to paint the Palestinians as death cult suicide fanatics , not some , but all of them as per the use of the term " the Palestinians ". This is the domain of the bigoted. They use the actions of the minority with which to smear the entire group , standard bigoted hogwash.
.
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If they were really a minority, don't you think the majority would try to take control and eliminate the problem.

The reality is that even if others wanted to stop the BS, they have to go against the religion to do it, and become an apostate.
 
oneworld2 said:
Just as I thought. The school of objective wouldbe scholars that started studying the Koran after members of that religion decided to attack the US with planes in the biggest terrorist attack in history and have been using that as their yardstick to understand Islam/Muslims everywhere ever since.
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Studying the Qur'an would have nothing to do with any of this.
Why would you want to study the Qur'an.
 
NO1 said:
Without the Jews the lands were still desert, even some of the Arabs knew they needed the Jews due to their knowledge. The Jews turned the desert to heaven.
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You live in a fantasy world. The Arabs had been working that land and producing food from much of it for centuries. The British too developed parts of it and set up medical facilities there that impacted on the lives of the local Arab population.

You might enjoy telling stories to gullible partisan hacks but they are fictions and you should be honest enough to admit that they are fictions imo
 
Good4Nothin said:
Oh really? And where is it? So secret that you can't give us a link? Show is the proof that Jews were attacking Arabs before Arabs ever attacked Jews.
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You cannot even be bothered to read what people have posted or are being forced to misrepresent it seeing as your highly biased and uninformed viewpoint is unravelling before you.

I put up two links regarding how much land Jews owned in Palestine around the time of the UN partition plan that rubbished your claim that they had bought all of it ( Palestine )........you didn't even have the decency to comment on it and now demand further links for stuff that people who have spent some time researching this conflict understand to be true

Your claim to want to be more objective and understand the conflict more is proving to be a hoax imo so I will just rubbish your repetition of Zionist propaganda as and when you choose to spout it
 
Yasureoktoo said:
If they were really a minority, don't you think the majority would try to take control and eliminate the problem.

The reality is that even if others wanted to stop the BS, they have to go against the religion to do it, and become an apostate.
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There are mass shootings in the US every week committed by a tiny minority of the population, wouldn't you think the majority would take control and eliminate the problem ?

There are stabbings every week in London committed by a tiny minority of people , don't you think the majority would take control and eliminate the problem ?

Your arguments to try to stitch up just Muslims/Arabs are wholly predictable and odious imo

The PLO were predominantly secular Palestinian groups/fighters and thus had no time for religion as their cause or justification for their actions...........what now for your theory ?
 
Yasureoktoo said:
Studying the Qur'an would have nothing to do with any of this.
Why would you want to study the Qur'an.
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Of course it has everything to do with it. You saw the towers in flames and then decided to start studying the religious doctrine of the perpetrators and have convinced yourself that the worlds problems are down to Muslims.

There are others just like you here and they NEVER fail to show their complete bias of all things regarding Muslims. That's why you are here cheering for Israel at every turn you're just not honest enough to admit to it
 
oneworld2 said:
Of course it has everything to do with it. You saw the towers in flames and then decided to start studying the religious doctrine of the perpetrators and have convinced yourself that the worlds problems are down to Muslims.

There are others just like you here and they NEVER fail to show their complete bias of all things regarding Muslims. That's why you are here cheering for Israel at every turn you're just not honest enough to admit to it
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Sorry,
As I said before you know nothing about the religion, and are making statements that have no bearing whatsoever.
The Qur'an is 14 percent of Islamic text, and most of it is bastardized stories from Judism and Christianity, and have no bearing whatsoever on what we are talking about.

You need the teachings and deeds of Muhammed.
The orders he left for all Muslims to follow.
 
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