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Thread: [W:57] The Israeli Wishlist V International Law

  1. #131
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    Re: [W:57] The Israeli Wishlist V International Law

    Quote Originally Posted by oneworld2 View Post
    Why do we always have to do a dance first ? Why don't you just be straight ? And no , Israel hasn't abided by the principles within the Geneva Convention it signed up to in 1951 ( to list them all would be too time consuming but the fact that there are around 500,000 illegal settlers there today alone makes a mockery of the claim ). And no the territories are not part of Israel and that they are referred to as OPTs should tell you that much



    As the occupying power they are both legally bound and contractually bound to abide by it. The truth is that they haven't and have violated multiple principles time and again , year in year out.
    As I already said Israel isn’t an occupying power, Israel have legal rights according the Mandate, so I couldn’t care less about the Geneva Convention in these lands.
    Quote Originally Posted by oneworld2 View Post
    As for arming the Palestinians , including Hamas , well yep.

  2. #132
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    Re: [W:57] The Israeli Wishlist V International Law

    Quote Originally Posted by oneworld2 View Post
    I can only repeat again and you can dismiss it if you want to but the fact remains that the 15 international expert judges contend , after referring to everything petaining to Israel/Palestine since the fall of the Ottomans , that the areas of East Jerusalem , the West Bank and Gaza were/are Occupied Palestinian Territory and that all of the settlements are illegal and violations of the Geneva Convention.

    You are asking that people dismiss that and take your spin on it as the more valuable opinion ?.
    The fact remains you are clueless about the Palestinians rights in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip, and I’ll explain why.

    You building you whole argument about an advisory opinion of the ICJ on a different subject which is the Construction of security wall. Here is the request of the advisory –
    What are the legal consequences arising from the construction of the wall being built by Israel, the occupying Power, in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in and around East Jerusalem, as described in the Report of the Secretary-General, considering the rules and principles of international law, including the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949, and relevant Security Council and General Assembly resolutions ?
    As you can see, the ICJ is just using the false terminology of the UN General Assembly (which is of course biased against Israel) – “the Occupied Palestinian Territory”.
    Also ICJ don't have the mandate to grant ownership.

    See articles 1 and 55 of the UN CHarter about a peoples right to self determination. Prior to that see the LON Mandate itself
    What does it say about the Palestinian rights in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip?

    So now you have cited it what does it say ?

    It states what I said pages back about the Mandate being dependent on the promotion of the right to self determination of the people living under the Mandate. That includes the Arabs living there which at the time was the vast majority of people due to it being prior to the influx of European Jews under the Mandate period.
    It reaffirmed the British Mandate which clearly states the legal rights of Israel in the JSG.
    No you haven't and it is yourself that keeps jumping around trying to evade some of your own claims and accusations
    Abbas offered Palestinian land that meant Israel could keep 60% of the illegal settlers. He agreed to a demilitarized state with no army or air force He offered that Israel could have access to Palestinian airspace. That they could choose the international forces to be placed on the Palestinian territory on the Jordanian border. To claim they made no concessions is a blatant falsehood.
    Source?

    Are you ever going to answer this question ?

    Is 5% of Israeli desert the same value as 7% of the most valuable land in Palestine that also gives control over most of the water resources , allows for retention of most of the illegal settlements and isolates East Jerusalem from the rest of any Palestinian state ?
    Which lands are you talking about when you say the most valuable land?
    You have to understand that when you make a deal both sides should be make compromises. Israel agreed to give up the Jordan valley and put there international forces even though it is more than clear that there will be weapons smuggling by terror organizations. Also Israel gave up almost all the WB and agree to right of return and splitting Jerusalem. All these were core issues which were red lines in the eyes of Israel, and still Israel agreed to compromise. So in order to have a deal the Palestinians also need to compromise just like Israel did, but of course it will never happen. Just as Dennis Ross, former Middle East Envoy under President Clinton said:
    Palestinian political culture is rooted in a narrative of injustice; its anticolonialist bent and its deep sense of grievance treats concessions to Israel as illegitimate. Compromise is portrayed as betrayal, and negotiations — which are by definition about mutual concessions — will inevitably force any Palestinian leader to challenge his people by making a politically costly decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by oneworld2 View Post
    As for arming the Palestinians , including Hamas , well yep.

  3. #133
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    Re: [W:57] The Israeli Wishlist V International Law

    Quote Originally Posted by oneworld2 View Post
    I disagree and think they have their own reputations to consider when going through the record and making a judgement........... you don't have to consider any damage to your own reputation
    Egypt's new FM accused Israel of genocide
    During his tenure at the International Court of Justice at The Hague, Elaraby was a member of the panel that issued the advisory opinion on the construction of Israel's security barrier.
    Israel protested Elaraby's appointment to the panel, claiming he was not objective and held anti-Israel views, including his call to sue the Jewish state for genocide.
    During an August 2001 interview with an Egyptian newspaper, Elaraby was quoted as saying, "I personally support an Arab Muslim claim against Israeli crimes." Two months later he was appointed as a judge at the ICJ.
    Quote Originally Posted by oneworld2 View Post
    As for arming the Palestinians , including Hamas , well yep.

  4. #134
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    Re: [W:57] The Israeli Wishlist V International Law

    Quote Originally Posted by oneworld2 View Post
    Not at all, there were 15 judges involved and I gave the voting in the last post iirc

    INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE ADVISORY OPINION FINDS ISRAEL’S CONSTRUCTION OF WALL ‘CONTRARY TO INTERNATIONAL LAW’ | Meetings Coverage and Press Releases

    Seems like you are the one that has nothing to offer apart from slurs against other members that disagree with many of your positions/views
    Your claims are completely laughable and your manipulations are easy to see through and destroy.
    Talking about what others have "to offer" is just too absurd to take seriously.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

  5. #135
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    Re: [W:57] The Israeli Wishlist V International Law

    Quote Originally Posted by NO1 View Post
    As I already said Israel isn’t an occupying power, Israel have legal rights according the Mandate, so I couldn’t care less about the Geneva Convention in these lands.
    Israel IS the occupying power having illegally tried to annexe parts of the WB ( East Jerusalem/settlements ) after conquering the territory from the Jordanians who occupied it and failed in their bid to annexe it prior to 1967.

    Your protestations are noted and ignored by this member who prefers to abide by the decisions made by the ICJ panel who have VASTLY more experience and knowledge of the law and its applicability to the conflict that you do
    There never has been a peace process, but rather an annexation process that used the “peace process” as a facade

    There are no victories, in all our histories , without love

  6. #136
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    Re: [W:57] The Israeli Wishlist V International Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Your claims are completely laughable and your manipulations are easy to see through and destroy.
    Talking about what others have "to offer" is just too absurd to take seriously.
    But you fail in every post to explain why and just resort to your usual personal attacks.

    Play the ball instead of the man for a change.
    There never has been a peace process, but rather an annexation process that used the “peace process” as a facade

    There are no victories, in all our histories , without love

  7. #137
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    Re: [W:57] The Israeli Wishlist V International Law

    Like most of the stuff you people who consider yourselves to be " pro Israel " put up, there is so often a deceptive spin to it.

    I urge people to actually google this Egyptian Judge an look at just how good his CV is

    So we are forced to do yet another small detective investigation into yet another smear campaign that your side always love to do regardless of the actual facts

    Firstly Elaraby supported , according to your link , ............... "I personally support an Arab Muslim claim against Israeli crimes.".......... which it says " includes genocide " but with crucially no reference so people cannot verify this claim.

    Then it turns out that he once accused Israel of applying the tactics of genocide in its attacks upon and treatment of the people of Gaza.

    That is NOT the same thing and is yet just another example of the sickening and constant smearing tactics used by Israeli propagandists and their lackies in the media ( and on a smaller scale the same thing to members of this forum )

    Here's what the context to his comment was and something of a listing of the genuine crimes committed by Israel with impunity he objected to.

    The number of Israeli victims in the current crisis did not match the number of those killed in traffic accidents in Israel in one year, or even one month. Israel was using tactics of “genocide” against the Palestinians. No other Government in the world practiced similar crimes; including the occupation of the land of another State, the repression of people, laying siege to human beings and, indeed, starving them.
    Urging Israeli-Palestinian Parties to Renew Ceasefire Efforts, Secretary-General Tells Security Council Conflict’s Root Causes Must Be Addressed | Meetings Coverage and Press Releases

    I get it , you don't think Arabs should ever be heard and when they do dare to raise their voices you are allowed to do another smear campaign. His CV is impressive and your bid to discredit him has allowed me to discredit you. So I will thank you for giving me the opportunity


    He went on to say.......

    Israel, he said, claimed to have accepted a ceasefire, although it was actually the party that had withdrawn from peace negotiations and reneged on previous commitments by refusing to release the last batch of Palestinian detainees. It had persisted in building occupation settlements and desecrated Islamic and Christian sites, day in and day out. It was Israel that besieged the Palestinian people by land, sea and air. He questioned if Council members had heard calls from Israeli leaders calling for “ethnic cleansing” in Gaza. The fact was that the starting point for the conflict was the very presence of settlers on occupied Palestinian land and the unjust siege against Gaza. The end point could only be reached through an end to the occupation, the lifting of the siege on Gaza and the protection of the Palestinian people.
    Accurate and brave, you could learn a lot from him imo
    Last edited by oneworld2; 10-18-19 at 01:36 PM.
    There never has been a peace process, but rather an annexation process that used the “peace process” as a facade

    There are no victories, in all our histories , without love

  8. #138
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    Re: [W:57] The Israeli Wishlist V International Law

    Quote Originally Posted by NO1 View Post
    The fact remains you are clueless about the Palestinians rights in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip, and I’ll explain why.

    You building you whole argument about an advisory opinion of the ICJ on a different subject which is the Construction of security wall. Here is the request of the advisory –

    As you can see, the ICJ is just using the false terminology of the UN General Assembly (which is of course biased against Israel) – “the Occupied Palestinian Territory”.
    Also ICJ don't have the mandate to grant ownership.
    When you say the UNGA is " biased against Israel " you are saying the whole world is biased against Israel. You are playing the Jew card again and it is just as pathetic an excuse this time as it was the last time you played it a couple of pages back.

    And the advisory opinion HAD to take into account the situation regarding the territories involved to make the decision about the annexation wall. That you don't understand even that much is hysterical and shows a very very poor understanding of the subject !!
    There never has been a peace process, but rather an annexation process that used the “peace process” as a facade

    There are no victories, in all our histories , without love

  9. #139
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    Re: [W:57] The Israeli Wishlist V International Law

    Quote Originally Posted by NO1 View Post

    What does it say about the Palestinian rights in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip?
    It says that a people have a right to self determination and political independence but doesn't name Palestinians or anyone else because it is a general principle of the Charter itself which is a part of international law. It is also a Charter that Israel signed up to when it became a member of the UN itself

    So , we have Israel signing up to abide by both the UN Charter and the 4th Geneva Convention and then completely violating those commitments and the laws they agreed to be bound by.

    It reaffirmed the British Mandate which clearly states the legal rights of Israel in the JSG.
    The Mandate is commitment to the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine but it afaik never stated the whole of Palestine and it certainly didn't scrub the rights of the Palestinians living there as was specifically referred to in the text, a text I have quoted directly from already to support this very point.

    I get it , you don't think the Palestinians have the right to anything. No human rights , no territorial rights , no right to self determination , no right to speak out , no right to defend themselves etc etc but the good news is that the view you hold is an extremist view that hardly anyone in the world that knows anything about this subject would agree with.The overwhelming consensus you are faced with leads to your constant misuse/abuse of the Jew Card ,having convinced yourself that it can only be the result of a global antisemitism and it's pathetic
    There never has been a peace process, but rather an annexation process that used the “peace process” as a facade

    There are no victories, in all our histories , without love

  10. #140
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    Re: [W:57] The Israeli Wishlist V International Law

    There never has been a peace process, but rather an annexation process that used the “peace process” as a facade

    There are no victories, in all our histories , without love

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