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Fledermaus said:
Facts are often disturbing. Hence many of your personal attack.

But facts cannot be bigotry.
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I have no problem with facts but I have shown on many occasions that you do. No, the problem is the completely biased commentary that deliberately leaves out other crucial facts and perspectives solely so as to demonize a certain group of people , in your case , the Palestinian people. It is this type of presentation that is the hallmark of classic bigotry so you are , as ever , completely wrong again
 
oneworld2 said:
Both sides are guilty of it so your point is just the latest example of your own obvious bias

Still waiting for the list regarding the " lies " you claim I have come up with

:roll:
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Hold your breath.

In many posts I have proudly expressed my hate and distain for muslims, I don't admit, I shout loudly from the rooftops with joy. The problem is you refuse to accept truth about the pariahs you love.
 
oneworld2 said:
I have no problem with facts but I have shown on many occasions that you do. No, the problem is the completely biased commentary that deliberately leaves out other crucial facts and perspectives solely so as to demonize a certain group of people , in your case , the Palestinian people. It is this type of presentation that is the hallmark of classic bigotry so you are , as ever , completely wrong again
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The average Oneworld2 post... Ad hominem makes up most of the post.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Hold your breath.

In many posts I have proudly expressed my hate and distain for muslims, I don't admit, I shout loudly from the rooftops with joy. The problem is you refuse to accept truth about the pariahs you love.
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So in answer to my request you have nothing but empty claims. I knew it and so did you but still you can't help yourself. Normal service is resumed

What have I refused to accept and who do I love ? lol

You see these days debate is generally poor because of debating styles like yours. If I condemn the illegal invasion of Iraq I must of course " love Saddam ". If I say that Hamas have only ever attacked IDF soldiers from the tunnels that lead into Israel I must " love Hamas ". I say Libya is descending into chaos and might be worse than when Muamar was in control I must " love Muamar " and so it goes on to infinity. But if that'#s all you got that's all you got

That you are proud to shout of your bigotry doesn't come as a shock and is pretty sad imo
 
Fledermaus said:
The average Oneworld2 post... Ad hominem makes up most of the post.
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Ive already said it........... don't want to be called out by concocting bigoted posts aimed at promoting hatred towards a targeted group ? then don't concoct them in the first place or cry when they are deconstructed and shown to be what they are
 
PeteEU said:
LOL.. The Grand Mufti sided with Nazi Germany to get rid of the British.
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Nonsense. The mufti saw that the Nazis held the same hatreds he owned. Brothers in hate. He viewed the British as a nuisance, truly hated the French, especially after his experiences with them in Syria. As usual, spouting about what you don't know. He wrote avidly how he would use the conflicts between the crusaders to destroy each other in islam's behalf. As a European, he hated you. As an infidel he wanted you dead or subjugated.
 
oneworld2 said:
So in answer to my request you have nothing but empty claims.

That you are proud to shout of your bigotry doesn't come as a shock and is pretty sad imo
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Yada yada yada
 
oneworld2 said:
Ive already said it........... don't want to be called out by concocting bigoted posts aimed at promoting hatred towards a targeted group ? then don't concoct them in the first place or cry when they are deconstructed and shown to be what they are
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And another ad hominem rich post.
 
oneworld2 said:
Where is there any call for genocide ? You would think such a call would be highlighted in the " encyclopediaHolocaust" but having read through their timeline of events there appears to be no mention of any such call

Hajj Amin al-Husayni: Key Dates | The Holocaust Encyclopedia
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Sorry so the Mufti sought to have Hitler extend his "final solution" to the middle east and gave material support to him for that purpose and you came back saying it was just the Mufti seeking to protect his people and their territory and that was just like what the Jews were doing to protect their people by trying to get the Nazis to send them to Palestine. So what you did, in fact, was to advocate that the Mufti's efforts to promote genocide were both a legitimate expression of his concern for his legitimate interests and equivalent to the zionists' efforts to protect their compatriots from said genocide.

There are so many different levels on which your positions are morally abhorrent.

I'm calling him out on his wish to portray the Mufiti as just wanting to join in with the Nazis on the " persecuting Jews " but leaving out the obvious and well documented aim of Arab autonomy that was the real aim of any collaboration , the same as it was for some Zionists that collaborated with the Nazis at the same time
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Yeah. In other words, the Jews deserved it and you understand why he did it. And it was just a regular natural reaction, just like the Jews doing what they could to try to save their compatriots.

It's calling out the double standards , double standards you seem happy enough to let slide and object to actually being called out. What does that say about you ?
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Irony | Definition of Irony by Merriam-Webster
 
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PeteEU said:
And you are still pushing age old zionist bull**** propaganda.

His country was under the control of the British Empire and he wanted to be free of them. He sided with the Nazi scum to do so, because of the enemy of my enemy is my friend theory. The Ukrainians, Baltic Nations, Fins, people in Burma, Malaya, Indonesia and many other places did the exact same to fight their colonial masters or Soviets. The Vietnamese welcomed the Japanese because it got rid of the French.. that it did not work out as they thought it would is another matter. This was happening all over the colonial world.

Now was the uncontrolled Jewish immigration to the area a problem? yes, not necessarily because they were Jews, but because they were foreigners. Muslims and Jews had lived in peace and intermarried for centuries under Ottoman rule and before, but as soon as the British came around the whole thing started falling apart because that is what the British and French did.. divided people based on religion and ethnicity. Much the problems in the area today, can be attributed to the British and French rule after the Ottoman empire... things like the Lebanese civil war and even the current Syrian civil war. And allowing in outsiders to settle in your area without your consent because the "rulers" saw you as sub-humans who should have no say in who was allowed in, tends to garner up revolutionary thoughts.

I aint defending the guy on his beliefs or views, but no way in hell should the Palestinian or general colonial wish for freedom from the largely pro Christian racist British and French Empires be relegated to a footnote just because there were Jews involved.

When the Japanese took the Philippines, many saw them as saviours from American oppression. That attitude changed of course, but it still happened.
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lol. Who made it his country?
 
oneworld2 said:
Ive already said it........... don't want to be called out by concocting bigoted posts aimed at promoting hatred towards a targeted group ? then don't concoct them in the first place or cry when they are deconstructed and shown to be what they are
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You mean like saying you totally get why the Mufti would have wanted to kill all the Jews in the Middle East and it was an understandable reaction on par with the zionist efforts to protect Jews from getting murdered?

That sort of bigoted posts aimed at promoting hatred towards a targeted group?
 
OldFatGuy said:
Nonsense. The mufti saw that the Nazis held the same hatreds he owned. Brothers in hate. He viewed the British as a nuisance, truly hated the French, especially after his experiences with them in Syria. As usual, spouting about what you don't know. He wrote avidly how he would use the conflicts between the crusaders to destroy each other in islam's behalf. As a European, he hated you. As an infidel he wanted you dead or subjugated.
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Exactly this. But the Europeans (particularly leftist Europeans) are very good at importing their own preferences and attitudes on other people, particularly the Palestinians, and dismissing their actual views if unhelpful to the European view of how things ought to be.

So a totalitarian, islamist, colonialist, genocide advocating mufti could turn into an anticolonialist progressive freedom fighter at the snap of your fingers, simply because that fits better into the delusional anti-Israel narrative that the European left insists upon . Facts matter less than perspective, after all...
 
CJ 2.0 said:
Exactly this. But the Europeans (particularly leftist Europeans) are very good at importing their own preferences and attitudes on other people, particularly the Palestinians, and dismissing their actual views if unhelpful to the European view of how things ought to be.

So a totalitarian, islamist, colonialist, genocide advocating mufti could turn into an anticolonialist progressive freedom fighter at the snap of your fingers, simply because that fits better into the delusional anti-Israel narrative that the European left insists upon . Facts matter less than perspective, after all...
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It is all about hatred of Jews in Europe. Left or right is irrelevant. Jews maintained their heritage with literacy and intellect. What could be more frightening to Europeans?

Toulouse Lautrec said it best, "were it not for my father's wealth, I would be Jew, a man with a mind, empathy and sensitivity in a cruel world." A translation from his letters to his mother.
 
OldFatGuy said:
It is all about hatred of Jews in Europe. Left or right is irrelevant. Jews maintained their heritage with literacy and intellect. What could be more frightening to Europeans?

Toulouse Lautrec said it best, "were it not for my father's wealth, I would be Jew, a man with a mind, empathy and sensitivity in a cruel world." A translation from his letters to his mother.
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They don’t know this. To so many, they genuinely, truly believe it is about Israel and only Israel. The double standards don’t register. The selective outrage and hypocrisy don’t register. Nothing registers but the narrative.

And certainly they can’t comprehend that this ties back to the Jews being Jews. Because they are Enlightened, social justice warriors and most definitely Not Anti-Semetic (TM).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Fledermaus said:
You would be lying....
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You are not knowledgeable enough to make the call either way but let's call your bluff , proof for your claim

I know it serves your agenda to paint as much as you can as Palestinian terrorism but every time Hamas fighters have exited the tunnels that lead into Israel from Gaza it has seen them engage the IDF, which is a legitimate military action . To preempt some desperate bid to twist this into " only because the IDF have discovered them" , they have done it when they were not discovered as in the ambush that led to the capture of Gilad Shalit.

I f I were lying ( which I am not ) I would be in good company here alright
 
CJ 2.0 said:
Sorry so the Mufti sought to have Hitler extend his "final solution" to the middle east and gave material support to him for that purpose and you came back saying it was just the Mufti seeking to protect his people and their territory and that was just like what the Jews were doing to protect their people by trying to get the Nazis to send them to Palestine. So what you did, in fact, was to advocate that the Mufti's efforts to promote genocide were both a legitimate expression of his concern for his legitimate interests and equivalent to the zionists' efforts to protect their compatriots from said genocide.
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I said the Muftis collaboration with/courting of the Nazis was based on a wish to stop a Jewish state being created in his own homeland at a time he was fighting for a Palestinian state for his own people, the Palestinians in the same territory. I never mentioned legitimacy , I never endorsed genocide either. This crucial and obvious point was being omitted so as to create the impression that it was based on antisemitism alone with no other context.

We always have to go through this nonsense with people like yourself. It can only be about people being antisemitic with no other reasoning because that's what you people rely on. The smear of smears in order to silence reasonable debate and/or the questioning of the Israeli state/Zionist narrative. Tough. The Mufti , like many leaders trying for autonomy/freedom from colonial rule , cosied up to horrific regimes to try to achieve it. As another poster has pointed out and afaik you failed to make a response to........ this can be seen in many parts of the world during the same period involving completely different peoples and is not perculiar to Palestinians or even Jews

And if we are being honest the same thing can be said about some Jewish people living in Palestine at the time. You can try to dress it differently to maintain your Jewish supremacist preferences but in essence it essentially the same struggle. Don't forget the timing too. The Zionists were working with the Nazis to get Jews sent to Palestine before there was a systematic plan being carried out to commit genocide against them. Also some Jewish people who chose to seek alliances with the Nazis also wanted to create the Jewish state along the same nationalistic totalitarian lines as the builders of the Reich had. So your wish to whitewash one side whilst demonizing the other depends on a very selective view of events and the aims that inspired them

There are so many different levels on which your positions are morally abhorrent.
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Like you are in a position to lecture anyone about morals. You can't help yourself from misrepresenting what people are saying so as to try to give yourself a toe hold to paint them as bigots when you are liking posts and supporting the misrepresentations/lies of others in a bid to support their bigoted commentary lol


Yeah. In other words, the Jews deserved it and you understand why he did it. And it was just a regular natural reaction, just like the Jews doing what they could to try to save their compatriots.
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You might need to get that enormous chip off your shoulder and try your hand at actual discussion. People can understand reactions WITHOUT agreeing with them or seeing them as legitimate but you cannot accept that because you rely on smears too much, all well documented here( this subforum ) already


-
Irony | Definition of Irony by Merriam-Webster
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You should look in the mirror yourself imo
 
CJ 2.0 said:
You mean like saying you totally get why the Mufti would have wanted to kill all the Jews in the Middle East and it was an understandable reaction on par with the zionist efforts to protect Jews from getting murdered?

That sort of bigoted posts aimed at promoting hatred towards a targeted group?
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Nope, what I am saying is that the Muftis actions were based on a desire to stop the Jewish state being created on a territory he wanted to see a Palestinian state being created on, his homeland. To leave that out and claim it was because he justed wanted in on the murder of Jews anywhere and everywhere is classic propaganda BS

Recall too , as I mentioned in the post above , the Zionist collaboration with the Nazis predates the systematic murder of Jews by them. The Haavara agreement was signed in 1933 and led to around 60'000 Jewish people emigrating to Palestine BEFORE the final solution was underway so your comments are inaccurate anyhow

The fact remains that some Palestinians and some Jews saw a potential ally in Nazi Germany wrt their attempts at gaining statehood , so your criticisms of only one side for it and your willingness to try to smear anyone with relevant information as somehow supportive for all sorts of odious notions is typical of people who prefer a highly selective and inaccurate picture to be foisted up for discussion
 
oneworld2 said:
I said the Muftis collaboration with/courting of the Nazis was based on a wish to stop a Jewish state being created in his own homeland at a time he was fighting for a Palestinian state for his own people, the Palestinians in the same territory.
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He conspired with the Nazis .... He discussed the Arab version of the "Final Solution". He recruited Muslims into the Waffen SS.

Those are facts.
 
Fledermaus said:
Incorrect.

As usual.

True or False.

Palestinians have fires rockets from their tunnels.

True?

False?
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Actually it is your own claims that are shown to be nonsense time and time again. And your question has a goalkpost shift you think people will not have noticed when you used yet another sleight of hand to deceive the reader

I specifically stated the " tunnels that enter into Israel " post 155 , your question refers to tunnels generally. Subtle but nonetheless dishonest

There is another problem too that is hard to miss for those capable of rational thought. If you fire a rocket from a tunnel it hits the ceiling. See , that's the nature of tunnels , they have ceilings that tend to get in the way of the target.

Now what might be trying to say is that they might have fired some rockets from by tunnel entrances/exits ( still not the tunnel itsel, still tunnels generally and still not even those I referred to ) which is okay with me BUT does not support your claim that I " would be lying"

So, over to you seeing as you have NOT supported your claim that I would be lying about the tunnels that enter Israel from Gaza or that they have fired rockets from tunnels
 
oneworld2 said:
Actually it is your own claims that are shown to be nonsense time and time again. And your question has a goalkpost shift you think people will not have noticed when you used yet another sleight of hand to deceive the reader

I specifically stated the " tunnels that enter into Israel " post 155 , your question refers to tunnels generally. Subtle but nonetheless dishonest

There is another problem too that is hard to miss for those capable of rational thought. If you fire a rocket from a tunnel it hits the ceiling. See , that's the nature of tunnels , they have ceilings that tend to get in the way of the target.

Now what might be trying to say is that they might have fired some rockets from by tunnel entrances/exits ( still not the tunnel itsel, still tunnels generally and still not even those I referred to ) which is okay with me BUT does not support your claim that I " would be lying"

So, over to you seeing as you have NOT supported your claim that I would be lying about the tunnels that enter Israel from Gaza or that they have fired rockets from tunnels
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The tunnels that enter originate in Gaza... Correct?

True or False.

Palestinians have fires rockets from their tunnels.

True?

False?
 
Fledermaus said:
The tunnels that enter originate in Gaza... Correct?

True or False.

Palestinians have fires rockets from their tunnels.

True?

False?
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Reread post 155 and read what I stated and realize you have erred or are just repeating what I stated, remember your original claim too

Evidence for rockets fired from tunnels and not from near tunnel entrances/exits

Do tunnels have ceilings ? :roll:

I am beginning to remember that quote from Twain as being instructive of what I have let myself in for............ 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

waiting.......
 
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