[*W:193*] Israel considers banning entry to outspoken US congresswomen

ChezC3 said:

Ah, that's what I thought, bold declarations based off a reality shared by none...

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It should be easy to give me a single example of them hating Israel and want it gone.

JasperL said:

Right, that's what our idiot in chief should have done. Kept out of this decision. But he CHOSE to make a very public demand, really, of Israel to deny them entry, and Israel reversed a decision they made a month ago to allow them entry and did just as Trump instructed.

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What can I say? We have whom we have directly to the choices, decisions and actions taken by both major parties back in 2016.

jaeger19 said:

I think there is a question though of 1. Should we tolerate an ally banning our democratically elected leaders at the behest of a sitting president?

We have reached a level where we are tolerating the office of the Presidency used as a means to retaliate against members of the opposing party because they dare to speak out.

Especially when this is played out on the world stage. American has a somewhat checkered past when it comes to owning up to your ideals of freedom and democracy... but we seem to have now thrown our ideals to the wind and have exposed America as well.. a hypocritical nation that uses the words freedom and democracy as a punchline.

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During my lifetime I haven't known a politician who wasn't a hypocrite. We like every other country in the world put our own country's interest first over every other country. They do the same. Does that excuse Trump, no it doesn't. Trump should just keep his big mouth shut and his fingers off twitter. His approval rating might rise 10 points in so doing. He keeps reminding us what an obnoxious, egotistical, opportunist he is.

So liberals didn't want Trump going to El Paso as its president, but it's not OK for two outspoken anti-Semites to be denied by the Israeli president?

Felis Leo said:

Good. Both Omar and Tlaib hate Israel and Ilhan Omar furthers antisemitic conspiracy theories. Nothing good was going to come of their visit.

No one needs to invite one's enemies into one's parlor to stir up trouble.

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Traitor. They are Americans, like I am and you aren't. When did the repubs become such pantywastes who can't stand to endure disagreement? Must Israel be as dumb and narcissistic as Trump, only allowing those who fully support the worst they do to be in their presence? Israel is the new Iran, I guess. Wow!

The President of the United States has no business suggesting to foreign governments that they should bar other US government officials from entry. It’s incomprehensible to me that anyone could see that as acceptable.

And an allied nation that does that deserves to be bitch slapped. It’s a friggin insult.

They really are trying to please Trump. There is no reason for Israel to fear the visit of two congresswomen from the US, regardless of any pro-Palestinian or anti-Semitic views held by the aforementioned. Sure, they might not like the women, but they shouldn't be afraid of them.

Netinayahoo should be ashamed.

AProudLefty said:

It should be easy to give me a single example of them hating Israel and want it gone.

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I did. You obviously haven't been paying attention.

D_NATURED said:

Traitor. They are Americans, like I am and you aren't. When did the repubs become such pantywastes who can't stand to endure disagreement? Must Israel be as dumb and narcissistic as Trump, only allowing those who fully support the worst they do to be in their presence? Israel is the new Iran, I guess. Wow!

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Come back when you have an argument, D_NATURED.

ChezC3 said:

I did. You obviously haven't been paying attention.

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Oh I have been paying attention. All you did was spouting unsupported assertions with no evidence backing them up.

completely destroying the State of Israel as it exists

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using language that condones and celebrates terrorist attacks.

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Do you have any evidence for that?

Come on you can do it.

AProudLefty said:

Oh I have been paying attention. All you did was spouting unsupported assertions with no evidence backing them up.



Do you have any evidence for that?

Come on you can do it.

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I don't think you have..



Leftists, got to love them, always wanting someone else to do the work...:lamo

G-d helps those who help themselves, oh wait, lemme guess...

JasperL said:

No, that's not what happened and it's not a surprise who is the first person to like this comment. Read his TWEET. I'll quote it.

Donald J. Trump on Twitter: "It would show great weakness if Israel allowed Rep. Omar and Rep.Tlaib to visit. They hate Israel & all Jewish people, & there is nothing that can be said or done to change their minds. Minnesota and Michigan will have a hard time putting them back in office. They are a disgrace!"



What he did was all but demand that Israel not let them in. He called sitting members of Congress a "disgrace" and said they hate Israel and "all Jewish people." I can't believe the level of gaslighting going on here. You cannot possibly read the words of POTUS and put it in terms like "there would be no issue from Washington with however they decided."

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What i am saying is that the decision to admit or not to admit was the source of debate within the Netanyahu government-- they didn't like their support for BDS, and in the case of Tlabi her support for the destruction of Israel, but they are elected reps for an ally and didn't wish to anger an ally.
Trump gave Israel, and himself, a bit of cover, it appears.

ChezC3 said:

I don't think you have..



Leftists, got to love them, always wanting someone else to do the work...:lamo

G-d helps those who help themselves, oh wait, lemme guess...

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That's what I thought. No evidence. I'll accept your concession of defeat. :thumbs:

JasperL said:

First of all, we have no idea what influence the President had on that decision. By the accounts I've seen, his Tweeted his nonsense out before the decision was announced, and we can assume that there were private discussions before Trump decided to make his wishes known in the most public way possible.

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I agree, it is difficult to know how much influence Trump had on that decision. On the other hand, the American journalists willing to look at the Israeli press in the last several weeks would have known that "two weeks ago, Israeli Ambassador to the United States Ron Dermer announced that Israel would allow the two to enter, in light of the strong messages he received on the subject from senior officials in the Democratic party, of which the two congresswomen are members."

In other words, Congress was already pressuring a foreign government to waive its anti-BDS law for the purposes of influencing their domestic political choices, i.e.; it was "sticking its nose" into their decisions.

While it is unclear when the administration let its own opinion be known to Israel, we do know that at the same time or within a week thereafter the Trump administration expressed its opinion. And rumors a week later emerged that the Israeli government was reconsidering its choice.

...if Trump had pressured Israel to allow entry to any member of Congress, do you really think that would have no impact? ...Instead, the guy in charge of foreign policy, aid decisions, decisions to sell arms and more says, "Jump" and we're all supposed to pretend that when they said "how high" in a decision subsequent that POTUS has no influence.

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Yes, it would be naïve to assume he had no impact, just as it would be naïve to assume Democratic Congressional leaders, the one's that vote to fund these aid decisions or sell arms, had no impact. Hence it is entirely reasonable to assume that those impacts off-setting; meaning, if you are going to be damned no matter what then make your choice based on whether the visit itself will help or hurt Israel.

That "we'll never know because the President" and Congress stuck their "noses into that decision" is as true as it was unseemly. However, given that the tweet was only a 1/2 day ago, it is highly unlikely this, itself, swung any decision.

It's not really true. He (Ben Ari) was denied entry because we believed he belongs or belonged to …

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Irrelevant a point made, i.e.; the denial of entry to members of another legislature because of their political views and hostility to the interests of host country didn't start with Omar and Talib, even when that legislator had business with Congress.

Now Israel is doing to the U.S. what they condemned in 2012.

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So then, only the side that first played hardball is allowed to do so? Was there a point over your objection to deserved payback?

So, Congressional Democrats demanded that Israel walk the walk they demanded from Obama in 2012 - to allow members of our Congress entry into their country.

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With that your answer to my prior question is "YES", Israel can't treat Democrats as Democrats treated them. That is self-evident "fairness" for Democrats, apparently...LOL.

More than anything, what I objected to was the attempt to gaslight the rest of us by insisting we pretend that POTUS ...had no influence on this decision. ... Of course Trump's preferences mattered. If not, then the proper response by the U.S. is to make our preferences matter. They're the ones relying on the United States and if they ignore what we want, let them pay a price for that.

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First, the use of the gaslight metaphor has become overused, especially in this forum. Telling a person they are wrong is not gaslighting, convincing a person they are crazy is.

Second, your jingoist and interventionist presumption that the US is compelled to make our preferences matter is a head on collision with your prior complaints about the President of the United States "sticking his nose into it" by expressing his preferences. You can't have it both ways...obviously.

Third, our preferences SHOULD NOT MATTER just because it is our preferences. They should ONLY matter when such preferences are enforced in the interests of US security, property, and trade. As I said, neither the President or Congress should be muscling another state for nothing more than harassment of their political opposition. Making one's preferences known for another countries domestic choices is one thing, doing so with threats of consequences is another and should ONLY be done when legitimate US interests are at stake.

AProudLefty said:

That's what I thought. No evidence. I'll accept your concession of defeat. :thumbs:

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Oh, ok there little buddy....:thumbs:

ChezC3 said:

Oh, ok there little buddy....:thumbs:

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Thanks for trying tho. That's more than I can say about some of those posters. Maybe someone will eventually bring at least one evidence.

HumblePi said:

The reason for Trump’s wrath wasn’t his concern for Israel’s good name. Trump couldn’t care less about the anti-Israel boycott, divestment and sanctions movement, which both Omar and Tlaib have endorsed. Trump doesn’t mind if Israel builds settlements, annexes territories, attacks enemies, discriminates against minorities or degrades its own democracy. As in any and all other issues under the sun, including U.S. foreign policy, the only thing that Trump cares about is Trump himself. Allowing Tlaib and Omar to travel to Israel would disrupt his efforts to exploit the radical positions of Omar and Tlaib in order to drive a wedge between Jewish voters and donors and the Democratic Party, and to paint it as falling under their influence.

Israel, therefore, was about to cross a red line: It would have interfered in Trump’s gut-level yet carefully orchestrated incitement campaign against minorities in general and the dark-skinned among them in particular — which he believes will pave his way back to the White House in 2020.

In Trump’s book, there is no greater sin.

Nixing Tlaib and Omar visit, Netanyahu harms Israel to assuage Trump’s ego - Israel News - Haaretz.com

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It would seem Rep Omar thwarted the plan by making a radical speech denouncing Israel and President Trump...

"OH NO! ISRAEL IS BARRING 2 CONGRESSWOMEN WHO HAVE DONE NOTHING BUT CRITICIZE, DEMONIZE, AND CRITICIZING THEM, AND HAVE BEEN IN SUPPORT OF THE TERRORIST ORGANIZATION, HAMAS, WHO HAVE BEEN CALLING FOR THE DESTRUCTION ISRAEL! YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS ARE GONE BECAUSE TRUMP MADE A SUGGESTION! OH MY GOD, OH MY GOD, OH MY GAAAAAWWWWWWD!!!!!" Amazing what Leftists and Never Trumpers say after Trump makes a simple suggestion to Israel, by saying that 2 anti-Semitic, anti-Israel elected federal officials who support a TERRORIST ORGANIZATION from entering their country to spew their hate and disgust for them. Again, ANYTHING, literally ANYTHING, to get rid of Trump. Even if it means going against logic, reason, and common sense.

And I read this author's from earlier, about prohibiting free speech, Leftists ARE the speech Nazis. One, they're almost all socialists (hence the Nazis part, which the Nazis were national socialists, it's in their translated name), and two, they're the ones running around wanting to restrict "hate" speech, censoring online conservative hosts, and twisting the words of their opponents. THE LEFT owns all that, not Trump nor anyone who's a non-Leftist. The fact that they want to use "gender pronouns" and want to control call certain people "he", "she", "him", or "her" shows that the Left is the side that wants to prohibit free speech and Constitutional rights. Look at Facebook, Twitter, and Google. The same situation in those three companies. They're ALL ran by Leftists. The Obama regime already had regulations of speech in place when a fundamental Muslim terrorist shoots up a place, anyone working for him were not allowed to call them Muslims. He also called ISIS, ISIL, because that would include Israel (imagine that, another Israel hater). So in conclusion, whatever they say Trump is doing, they actually mean they, the Left, doing it.

AProudLefty said:

Thanks for trying tho. That's more than I can say about some of those posters. Maybe someone will eventually bring at least one evidence.

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Uh huh.....:coffeepap

ChezC3 said:

Uh huh.....:coffeepap

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Oh good idea. Coffee will simulate you and maybe you'll find an evidence.

JasperL said:

The problem is POTUS instructed them to deny entry, contrary to Israel's previous pledge to allow entry to any member of Congress. And Israel did as instructed by POTUS. If Trump kept his damn mouth shut for once, you could have attributed the decision to Israel, but the idiot in chief can't help himself.

So now we have a POTUS dishonestly attacking members of Congress, instructing other countries to deny them entry, based on their political speech. Shouldn't we all be able to agree that's a bad precedent?

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Exactly. Look at this quote, it's disgusting, low-brow, untrue, and completely unPresidential.

"It would show great weakness if Israel allowed Rep. Omar and Rep. Tlaib to visit," Trump tweeted. "They hate Israel & all Jewish people, & there is nothing that can be said or done to change their minds. Minnesota and Michigan will have a hard time putting them back in office. They are a disgrace!"

Israel bars Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib from entering country - CNNPolitics

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trixare4kids said:

Yes, they implied hate for Israel because they are extremely outspoken critics of Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians and support a boycott of Israel.

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You can criticize Israel about the way they treat the Palestinians and not 'imply' hate for Israel or Jews.

Since when does honest criticism imply hate? The opposite is blind following, sycophancy, at minimum a relationship based on lies, white and otherwise.

ChezC3 said:

Leftists, got to love them, always wanting someone else to do the work...:lamo

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Rightists, got to love them, always making **** up to feel better about their own inadequacies.... :lamo

G-d helps those who help themselves, oh wait, lemme guess...

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That's all Trump's got, so don't bother waiting for it to change....

trixare4kids said:

Yes, they implied hate for Israel because they are extremely outspoken critics of Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians and support a boycott of Israel.

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Out of curiosity, do you hate North Koreans and Chinese?

HumblePi said:

[h=1]Israel considers banning entry to outspoken US congresswomen[/h]Israel official: Netanyahu weighing ban on Omar, Tlaib visit - ABC News
Israel's prime minister and other top officials were meeting on Thursday to reevaluate the decision to allow two Democratic congresswomen who support the Palestinian-led boycott movement to enter the country next week.

An Israeli official said they were meeting about an upcoming visit by Rep. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota and Rep. Rashida Tlaib of Michigan. The newly-elected Muslim members of Congress are outspoken critics of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. Tlaib's family immigrated to the United States from the West Bank.

The official, speaking on condition of anonymity in line with regulations, said "there is a possibility that Israel will not allow the visit in its current proposed format."

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It's official. Based on Trump's recommendation, Israel has banned both Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib. Wave 'bye bye' to your Constitutional freedoms people, they just got thrown out the window and are no longer part of the Constitution. Freedom of speech will come at a heavy price from now on.

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Yet Israel feels it has a right to to come to the US, influence US politics with AIPAC, speak critically of us in our own Congress, instruct dual citizenship voters, accept $B and give back nothing but intrigue and trouble.