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[*W:193*] Israel considers banning entry to outspoken US congresswomen

Mongidig said:
In the US you are allowed to spout your hate and be an idiot. Israel doesn't put up with that crap! This is another win for the good guy's. I just wish they would have waited until they were in the air to cancel on them.
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Good boy. Here's a candy.
 
A couple Fredo's denied entrance into Israel....Hilarious!
 
trixare4kids said:
Such disgust over one of America's closest allies and dearest friends; Israel. You label the POTUS as while attempting to sway people to your side of the fence. That's some pretty funny stuff.

Your emotionally laden, faux outrage performance deserves a bow. :moon:
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Best example of emotional laden irony from a drama queen I have ever seen. :applaud
 
AProudLefty said:
Then Israel should ban Trump as well.
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Trump doesn't support terrorists. He is not in favor of the death of Israel and all Jews. Trump is a friend of Israel and is welcome anytime.
 
trixare4kids said:
Their plans are to boycott Israel which btw is against the law in Israel.
I think Palestine would welcome any boycotter of Israel, and Holocaust denier....
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So Israel invites them in, and in response Tweedles Dee and Dumb spit at them and tell Israel they're going to "Palestine" to do more spitting.

OMG, Trump!! :lamo:lamo
 
Mongidig said:
Trump doesn't support terrorists. He is not in favor of the death of Israel and all Jews. Trump is a friend of Israel and is welcome anytime.
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Trump supports Saudi Arabia.
 
Mongidig said:
In the US you are allowed to spout your hate and be an idiot. Israel doesn't put up with that crap! This is another win for the good guy's. I just wish they would have waited until they were in the air to cancel on them.
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Of course you do because owning the libs is the only principle left in the modern day GOP.
 
JasperL said:
The problem is POTUS instructed them to deny entry, contrary to Israel's previous pledge to allow entry to any member of Congress. And Israel did as instructed by POTUS. If Trump kept his damn mouth shut for once, you could have attributed the decision to Israel, but the idiot in chief can't help himself.

So now we have a POTUS dishonestly attacking members of Congress, instructing other countries to deny them entry, based on their political speech. Shouldn't we all be able to agree that's a bad precedent?
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I think we can agree that it's inappropriate for any President or Congress to "instruct" or "warn" foreign governments to make sovereign choices that have no impact on American national interests. And granted, a more subtle President could have expressed skepticism with a bit of wry humor, without "instructing" any foreign government on how to treat their common American political enemies.

However, it's an overstatement to imply that Israel did not largely make the decision on its own. Two weeks ago the Israeli government intended to waive their anti-BDS law and allow the pair's visit, in spite of the US administration having asked the Israeli foreign minister to turn them down. However the Israeli government changed its mind once it reviewed the itinerary - the entire visit would only to entertain the Palestinian Authority in East Jerusalem and entirely intended as a PR stunt to provoke incitement against the State of Israel - it had no interest in studying Israel's activities or position.

After the rescision was announced Trump jumped on the bandwagon publicly with a tweet.

Two other points ought to be noted as well:

First, this is not without precedent. Obama's 2012 state department banned a visit by Israeli Knesset member Michel Ben Ari to launch a joint project with the Knesset and Congress.

Second, Congressional Democratic Party leaders had already made it clear that wanted Netanyahu to accept Omar and Talib or their might be consequences.

Third, such Democratic interference with Israel's government choices included that of influencing (or attempting to influence) Israel's elections.

In other words, its a bit late for critics to start hair-pulling over Trump's tweet, criticism that depends depending on whose ox is gored.
 
trixare4kids said:
Constitutional freedoms?
People in our country don't have constitutional protections in foreign countries.
Ask Michael Savage.

Israel is free to let them in or keep them out.
Stop fear mongering.
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That's absolutely ridiculous. They're both being punished for the freedom of speech THEY HAVE HERE, not in Israel. Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib were going to visit the Temple Mount in Jerusalem during their trip. Both women are Muslim and intended to visit the Al-Aqsa Mosque and Dome of the Rock shrine at the holy site. For people who aren't aware, Jerusalem is the holiest place on earth for many religions, Christian, Jew and Muslim. Rashida Tlaib's grandmother lives in the West Bank and she planned to visit her. The US delegation was expected to land on Friday 16 August, and Tlaib, who is a Detroit native born to Palestinian immigrant parents, had allocated several days of her trip to spend with her extended family, away from work and media.

Benjamin Netanyahu is facing an election next month and he's already a dark horse. Many people claim he stole the last election. Last February, 2019, he was expected to be indicted on charges of fraud, bribery and corruption. Netanyahu reacted with 'fire and fury', calling the investigations a 'witch hunt'. (sounds so familiar) Netanyahu’s lawyers initially asked for a full-year postponement until next July, reportedly arguing that there was too much evidence to review in three months, but that request was denied. I think that's it's very ironic that the ONLY foreign leader to be appearing to help his chances of reelection is another one accused of corruption. It was suspicious when Trump moved the U.S. embassy, and shocking when he chose to officially recognize the annexation of the Golan Heights. There was no pressing need to do that, and it certainly appears to be it aimed to help Netanyahu win reelection. Pre-trial hearings can take a year or even longer. If, after the hearings, he is indicted and goes to trial, the trial itself could take an additional year. If convicted, Netanyahu would then have a chance to appeal to the Supreme Court, which could take many more months, potentially pushing the case into 2021.

In the meantime, an agreement was signed in 2018 in which the US pledges to give Israel $38 billion dollars over 10 years, or $3.8 billion per year. That's US taxpayer money. The US has always supported Israel militarily since the 'Iron Dome' essentially protects the interests of both the US and Israel in the Middle East. The US has always given billions to Israel, but the agreement in 2018 added more to the foreign aid package than usual although not quite the 4.6 billion dollars that Netanyahu had asked Trump for.
 
I'm not surprised if a conservative govt does not invite critics. Like Trump, Netenyahoo cannot handle criticism. I am not surprised that the President of the United States, idiot as he is these days, would falsely tweet that these congresswomen "hate Israel and all the Jewish people." That so many people follow him is the sad part. What a ridiculous, cruel, dishonest and divisive thing to say.
 
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HumblePi said:
That's absolutely ridiculous. They're both being punished for the freedom of speech THEY HAVE HERE, not in Israel. Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib were going to visit the Temple Mount in Jerusalem during their trip. Both women are Muslim and intended to visit the Al-Aqsa Mosque and Dome of the Rock shrine at the holy site. For people who aren't aware, Jerusalem is the holiest place on earth for many religions, Christian, Jew and Muslim. Rashida Tlaib's grandmother lives in the West Bank and she planned to visit her. The US delegation was expected to land on Friday 16 August, and Tlaib, who is a Detroit native born to Palestinian immigrant parents, had allocated several days of her trip to spend with her extended family, away from work and media.

Benjamin Netanyahu is facing an election next month and he's already a dark horse. Many people claim he stole the last election. Last February, 2019, he was expected to be indicted on charges of fraud, bribery and corruption. Netanyahu reacted with 'fire and fury', calling the investigations a 'witch hunt'. (sounds so familiar) Netanyahu’s lawyers initially asked for a full-year postponement until next July, reportedly arguing that there was too much evidence to review in three months, but that request was denied. I think that's it's very ironic that the ONLY foreign leader to be appearing to help his chances of reelection is another one accused of corruption. It was suspicious when Trump moved the U.S. embassy, and shocking when he chose to officially recognize the annexation of the Golan Heights. There was no pressing need to do that, and it certainly appears to be it aimed to help Netanyahu win reelection. Pre-trial hearings can take a year or even longer. If, after the hearings, he is indicted and goes to trial, the trial itself could take an additional year. If convicted, Netanyahu would then have a chance to appeal to the Supreme Court, which could take many more months, potentially pushing the case into 2021.

In the meantime, an agreement was signed in 2018 in which the US pledges to give Israel $38 billion dollars over 10 years, or $3.8 billion per year. That's US taxpayer money. The US has always supported Israel militarily since the 'Iron Dome' essentially protects the interests of both the US and Israel in the Middle East. The US has always given billions to Israel, but the agreement in 2018 added more to the foreign aid package than usual although not quite the 4.6 billion dollars that Netanyahu had asked Trump for.
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T/L but I suffered through it just so I could counter with this...

U.S. Ambassador to Israel, David Friedman's statement:
"The United States supports and respects the decision of the Government of Israel to deny entry to the Tlaib/Omar Delegation.

The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement against Israel is not free speech. Rather, it is no less than economic warfare designed to delegitimize and ultimately destroy the Jewish State. Israel properly has enacted laws to bar entry of BDS activists under the circumstances present here, and it has every right to protect its borders against those activists in the same manner as it would bar entrants with more conventional weapons."

Initially, Israel had indicated that it would accept the Tlaib/Omar Delegation, and use their visit as an opportunity to engage with and educate the delegation members with regard to Israel’s vibrant and robust democracy, its religious tolerance and its ethnic diversity. Unfortunately, the itinerary of the Tlaib/Omar Delegation leaves no room for that opportunity. In contrast to the nearly 70 freshmen members of Congress who just recently completed, or who are currently pursuing, a balanced visit to Israel that includes meetings with both Israeli and Palestinian leaders, the Tlaib/Omar Delegation has limited its exposure to tours organized by the most strident of BDS activists. This trip, pure and simple, is nothing more than an effort to fuel the BDS engine that Congresswomen Tlaib and Omar so vigorously support.

Like the United States, Israel is a nation of laws. We support Israel’s application of its laws in this case."


You're welcome.
 
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JMaximus said:
How very American of you: pissed that a foreign country would have the nerve to ban entry of any of our fine citizens - even the ones who display open animosity to that country's very existence.

It's as if those arrogant bastards think they're a sovereign nation or some ****.

Americans deserve to go anywhere they please, right?
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Trump straight up lied about these two women. They never said 'they hate Jews', Trump made that up to demonize them and make people like you hate them. These are United States Congresswomen he's ****ing around with! Yes, they have been critical of the Israeli government but they have been very clear that this is not criticism of the Jewish people.

If anyone should have been banned from stepping foot on American soil are the two Russian spies that Trump invited for a good laugh in the Oval Office, Sergay Kisylak and Sergey Lavrov.
 
trixare4kids said:
T/L but I suffered through it just so I could counter with this...

"The United States supports and respects the decision of the Government of Israel to deny entry to the Tlaib/Omar Delegation.

The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement against Israel is not free speech. Rather, it is no less than economic warfare designed to delegitimize and ultimately destroy the Jewish State. Israel properly has enacted laws to bar entry of BDS activists under the circumstances present here, and it has every right to protect its borders against those activists in the same manner as it would bar entrants with more conventional weapons."

Initially, Israel had indicated that it would accept the Tlaib/Omar Delegation, and use their visit as an opportunity to engage with and educate the delegation members with regard to Israel’s vibrant and robust democracy, its religious tolerance and its ethnic diversity. Unfortunately, the itinerary of the Tlaib/Omar Delegation leaves no room for that opportunity. In contrast to the nearly 70 freshmen members of Congress who just recently completed, or who are currently pursuing, a balanced visit to Israel that includes meetings with both Israeli and Palestinian leaders, the Tlaib/Omar Delegation has limited its exposure to tours organized by the most strident of BDS activists. This trip, pure and simple, is nothing more than an effort to fuel the BDS engine that Congresswomen Tlaib and Omar so vigorously support.

Like the United States, Israel is a nation of laws. We support Israel’s application of its laws in this case."


You're welcome.
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Your copy and paste is noted.

Let's assume that every foreign country that doesn't agree with Trump's policies or politics banned him from entering their countries. Where would he be a welcomed guest, any guesses?
 
HumblePi said:
Your copy and paste is noted.

Let's assume that every foreign country that doesn't agree with Trump's policies or politics banned him from entering their countries. Where would he be a welcomed guest, any guesses?
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Seriously, you couldn't have read the ambassador's statement if you are still arguing over Israel's legal right to deny Omar and Talib's entry.
Stop trying to bluff your way through this with your 'but Trump :bs' and learn why Israel has made this decision.
 
maxparrish said:
I think we can agree that it's inappropriate for any President or Congress to "instruct" or "warn" foreign governments to make sovereign choices that have no impact on American national interests. And granted, a more subtle President could have expressed skepticism with a bit of wry humor, without "instructing" any foreign government on how to treat their common American political enemies.

However, it's an overstatement to imply that Israel did not largely make the decision on its own. Two weeks ago the Israeli government intended to waive their anti-BDS law and allow the pair's visit, in spite of the US administration having asked the Israeli foreign minister to turn them down. However the Israeli government changed its mind once it reviewed the itinerary - the entire visit would only to entertain the Palestinian Authority in East Jerusalem and entirely intended as a PR stunt to provoke incitement against the State of Israel - it had no interest in studying Israel's activities or position.
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First of all, we have no idea what influence the President had on that decision. By the accounts I've seen, his Tweeted his nonsense out before the decision was announced, and we can assume that there were private discussions before Trump decided to make his wishes known in the most public way possible.

Put another way, if Trump had pressured Israel to allow entry to any member of Congress, do you really think that would have no impact? Of course it would because it would be a BIG factor in favor of granting them entry. Instead, the guy in charge of foreign policy, aid decisions, decisions to sell arms and more says, "Jump" and we're all supposed to pretend that when they said "how high" in a decision subsequent that POTUS has no influence.

Does that not strike you as naive at best?

Besides, we'll never know because the President did stick his nose into that decision, publicly, by Tweet, not only by calling them weak if they allow them in but then dishonestly attacking members of Congress. This kind of gutter behavior by Trump is so common now that we hardly notice.

After the rescision was announced Trump jumped on the bandwagon publicly with a tweet.
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I don't think that's true.

Two other points ought to be noted as well:

First, this is not without precedent. Obama's 2012 state department banned a visit by Israeli Knesset member Michel Ben Ari to launch a joint project with the Knesset and Congress.
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That's not really true. He was denied entry because we believed he belongs or belonged to a group both Israel and the U.S. deemed a terrorist organization. Israeli delegation cannot travel to U.S after MK Ben Ari denied entry visa - Haaretz - Israel News | Haaretz.com

Israel attacked that decision, then Israel as retaliation barred travel by other members of the Knesset to a panel. Now Israel is doing to the U.S. what they condemned in 2012.

Second, Congressional Democratic Party leaders had already made it clear that wanted Netanyahu to accept Omar and Talib or their might be consequences.
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So, Congressional Democrats demanded that Israel walk the walk they demanded from Obama in 2012 - to allow members of our Congress entry into their country.

Third, such Democratic interference with Israel's government choices included that of influencing (or attempting to influence) Israel's elections.

In other words, its a bit late for critics to start hair-pulling over Trump's tweet, criticism that depends depending on whose ox is gored.
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More than anything, what I objected to was the attempt to gaslight the rest of us by insisting we pretend that POTUS had no influence on this decision. Trump VERY publicly put his considerable weight on the scale, and we're all supposed to ignore our lying eyes and pretend this was Israel's decision alone. It wasn't. Of course Trump's preferences mattered. If not, then the proper response by the U.S. is to make our preferences matter. They're the ones relying on the United States and if they ignore what we want, let them pay a price for that.
 
HumblePi said:
That's absolutely ridiculous. They're both being punished for the freedom of speech THEY HAVE HERE, not in Israel. Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib were going to visit the Temple Mount in Jerusalem during their trip. Both women are Muslim and intended to visit the Al-Aqsa Mosque and Dome of the Rock shrine at the holy site. For people who aren't aware, Jerusalem is the holiest place on earth for many religions, Christian, Jew and Muslim. Rashida Tlaib's grandmother lives in the West Bank and she planned to visit her. The US delegation was expected to land on Friday 16 August, and Tlaib, who is a Detroit native born to Palestinian immigrant parents, had allocated several days of her trip to spend with her extended family, away from work and media. ...
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Nonsense. It is it not a punishment to deny the unlawful entry of a foreign citizen to any country; Omar and Talib are foreign enemies of the State of Israel and under the anti-BDS law of 2017 should be banned. Their itinerary says it all; they are not their for family visits or good faith learning - they are there to undermine Israeli policy and promote their anti-Israel cause.
 
I think people forget that other country's have their own politics.

Besides, why would anyone invite into their homes someone who openly hates you and secretly, (or not so much) want for your destruction?
 
maxparrish said:
Nonsense. It is it not a punishment to deny the unlawful entry of a foreign citizen to any country; Omar and Talib are foreign enemies of the State of Israel and under the anti-BDS law of 2017 should be banned. Their itinerary says it all; they are not their for family visits or good faith learning - they are there to undermine Israeli policy and promote their anti-Israel cause.
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Wow.. that makes no sense what so ever!.
"foreign enemies of the state of Israel?"...

Come now.
 
ChezC3 said:
I think people forget that other country's have their own politics.

Besides, why would anyone invite into their homes someone who openly hates you and secretly, (or not so much) want for your destruction?
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I am curious.. can you provide any evidence that these two women want the destruction of Israel?
 
JasperL said:
It's like your boss expressing his opinion on something, you act in accordance to what your boss suggests, then claiming that the boss's opinion had no impact on your decision. Only the very stupid would believe that. Pretend if you want. I'm not that dumb.
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It's not like that at all. In no way, shape or form is the US the "boss" of Israel.
 
JasperL said:
What's amazing is you right wingers ignore what the president does publicly, demand we treat it as irrelevant, then attack us and the media for pointing out what your eyes can see without any reporting at all by the media. Israel committed publicly to allowing those two entry a month ago. Trump publicly expresses opposition. Israel more or less immediately reverses their decision. You say, "pay no attention to your lying eyes!"

The level of gaslighting in defense of Trump is something I never figured I'd witness in America.
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Dude, at the very most we and the rest of the world have to deal with a given president for 8 years. As long as that president doesn't team up with congress to nullify the Constitution we'll have the opportunity to correct whatever they ****ed up. Don't panic.
 
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