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Hamas... Some animals are more equal than others.

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Fledermaus said:
Hamas steals building supplies to build terror tunnels and then the Palestinians cry that there are no building supplies to rebuilt homes and infrastructure.
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Yeah, but so does that Canadian government.

Or something like that.

And also Bush=Hitler


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oneworld2 said:
So we know that the PA were voted out of Gaza due to their blatant corruption and you have been forced to admit it. That's a good start but it gets better

You are then forced to claim that they wanted a different type of corruption ( lol ) with money being diverted for stuff with which to attack Israel. But it was you that not so long ago made a HUGE DEAL about a 2004 arms shipment headed to Gaza with $15 million of ordnance on board , correct ?

That it was in 2004 should have made you sit up and take note that Gaza was under PA control in 2004 , not Hamas control. This, alas , would have rrequirfed some basic knowledge of the conflict and the time lines involved which you simply don't have because you ascribed the shipment , wrongly , to the Hamas movement when it was in fact a PA endeavor. Thus your latest switch is as big a failure as all of the others.

I keep telling you that your commentary on this subject is poor but you insist on confirming it with every new post

It remains true that you want a " Hamas is corrupt " thread whilst ridiculously wanting everyone to stay silent that so are everyone else so as to single them out as different in as bizare an attempt to drown out dissenting voices as it is possible to witness.

Fortunately you don't have that level of control over others here so I will reiterate the obvious and there is nothing you can do about it............ Hamas are corrupt , just like virtually everyone/group else involved.

If you wish to delude yourself that it is anything other than that it is up to yourself but you cannot force that level of wilful ignorance onto others :)
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wait, you're arguing that hamas isn't corrupt? lol geez. Only you, when asked to find an incorruptible government, would point to hamas.
 
CJ 2.0 said:
Yeah, but so does that Canadian government.

Or something like that.

And also Bush=Hitler


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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that gave me flashbacks.
 
Fledermaus said:
What "denial of Palestinians" are you talking about?

What was said that is not true?
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:roll:

If you knew anything about the subject you would know. If you read his post properly you would know
 
DarkWizard12 said:
wait, you're arguing that hamas isn't corrupt? lol geez. Only you, when asked to find an incorruptible government, would point to hamas.
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So typical of your input here............. you dive in and instantly get it wrong.

Reread the thread and realize how ridiculous your one line hogwash is
 
CJ 2.0 said:
Amazing how the more progressive a leftist, the more views on issues all the way up and down the gauntlet are homogenized even though the issues have little if anything to do with each other.

Funny how that works.

Edit: got to say, I’m really digging your post a lot. The lack of awareness in it is practically art.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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That these concepts , for which there is massive supporting evidence , are lost on you is to be expected. If you look at things through a narrow minded biased lens they are guaranteed to elude you. It's not funny , it's just the legacy of a good western indoctrination :)
 
Fledermaus said:
Nothing "ridiculous" about the question.
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You asked two questions but can't even manage to remember that much

The first was " where did he deny the Palestinian people " ?

The first clue is when people put those words in inverted commas , like you have on occasion. Old fat guy did it the post I responded to, the post you claim not to have seen any denial in :roll: That's the first clue , lost on you

The second was the reference that the PLO fighters that formed the PLO were " Egyptian and Syrian day labourers " , inferrring they were not and had never lived as an actual resident of Palestine , a Palestinian.

The third was the list he gave of why they are , in essence , a manufactured people that were " created " , with nothing " of their own " , no past , no culture , no language etc etc

Despite this you asked me where the denial of the Palestinian people was in his post :roll:

It's a dumb question , a really dumb question given the concise denial of the Palestinian people he gave in just a couple of sentences. Are we really to believe you couldn't find it in that post ? Really ?

What do you think was untrue in amongst it ? Astound us all with an incredible insight based on the facts

oldfatguy said:
Yassir Arafat, an undesirable of Egypt, assembled Syrian and Egyptian day laborers who fled the mandate with promises from Arab leaders they could return after the Jews were driven into the sea, and created a "Palestinian" people. A people with no heritage, no past, no culture of their own, no language of their own,
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oneworld2 said:
You asked two questions but can't even manage to remember that much

The first was " where did he deny the Palestinian people " ?

The first clue is when people put those words in inverted commas , like you have on occasion. Old fat guy did it the post I responded to, the post you claim not to have seen any denial in :roll: That's the first clue , lost on you

The second was the reference that the PLO fighters that formed the PLO were " Egyptian and Syrian day labourers " , inferrring they were not and had never lived as an actual resident of Palestine , a Palestinian.

The third was the list he gave of why they are , in essence , a manufactured people that were " created " , with nothing " of their own " , no past , no culture , no language etc etc

Despite this you asked me where the denial of the Palestinian people was in his post :roll:

It's a dumb question , a really dumb question given the concise denial of the Palestinian people he gave in just a couple of sentences. Are we really to believe you couldn't find it in that post ? Really ?

What do you think was untrue in amongst it ? Astound us all with an incredible insight based on the facts
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What was said that is not true?
 
Fledermaus said:
What was said that is not true?
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Why don't you comment on why you pretended not to see any denial of the Palestinian people in OFG's post ? It was pretty obvious as I have shown. Why did you pretend not to see it ?
 
Fledermaus said:
What was said that is not true?
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That the PLO was not made up of " Syrian and Egyptian day labourers ". 700,000 Palestinains fled or were ousted during the 1947-49 conflict and around 200.00more after the 67 conflict. To try to say that there were no Palestinians in the PLO is an outright fabrication and a denial of the fact that their ranks were formed overwehelmingly from those people who had suffered these fates. The reference I made about Joan Peters was a direct reference to this denial of the Palestinian people as a people with historic ties and lives in Palestine for centuries , possibly millenia

The Palestinians have a language , it's Arabic. That's their language and you, or any others here don't get to decide its value even if youy are arrogant enough to think you do. There is no such language as Iraqi , they speak predominantly Arabic with Turkish and Kurdish spoken in some regions. That doesn't mean there is no such thing as an Iraqi. All of this is just basic understanding , an understanding you don't have

They do have a culture in Palestine , one that is akin with the region in general. An Islamic/ Arab culture along with other sects

They have a past , everybodty/group has a past. To deny it is completely insane but we see it here and we see you supporting that denial

So apart from everything he said being wrong and based on a completely bigoted view of the people themselves , with you supporting that too , there's nothing more to add except to note that had you have had any clue about this conflict at all , outside of the biased and bigoted perspective we see in every post , you would have known this much already

I've answered yours and you are still to answer mine , no surprises there............ why did you pretend not to see the denial in his post , he even put the word Palestininas in inverted commas ?
 
oneworld2 said:
That the PLO was not made up of " Syrian and Egyptian day labourers ". 700,000 Palestinains fled or were ousted during the 1947-49 conflict and around 200.00more after the 67 conflict. To try to say that there were no Palestinians in the PLO is an outright fabrication and a denial of the fact that their ranks were formed overwehelmingly from those people who had suffered these fates. The reference I made about Joan Peters was a direct reference to this denial of the Palestinian people as a people with historic ties and lives in Palestine for centuries , possibly millenia
Click to expand...

From the Journal Reports of T.E. Lawrence for the Commissioner of British Mandates in former Ottoman Lands, 1918

"It was always the foreign soldier who was the police power in Palestine. The Tulunides brought in Turks and Negroes. The Fatamids introduced Berbers, Slavs, Greeks, Kurds, and mercenaries of all kinds. The Mamelukes imported legions of Georgians and Circassians. Each monarch for his personal safety relied on great levies of slave warriors. Saladin, hard-pressed by the Crusaders, received one hundred and fifty thousand Persians who were given lands in Galilee and the Sidon district for their services.

Out of this human patch-work of Jews, Arabs, Armenians, Kalmucks, Persians, Crusaders, Tartars, Indians, Ethiopians, Egyptians, Sudanese, Turks, Mongols, Romans, Kharmazians, Greeks, pilgrims, wanderers, ne'er-do-wells and adventurers, invaders, slaves ... was formed that hodge-podge of blood and mentality we call today "Levantine." ...

In the fourteenth century, drought caused the immigration into Palestine of eighteen thousand "tents" of Yurate Tartars from the Euphrates. Soon followed twenty thousand Ashiri under Gaza, and four thousand Mongols under Moulai, who occupied the Jordan Valley and settled from Jerusalem south. Kaisaite and Yemenite tribes followed in their trail. ...

In 1830 the Albanian conqueror Mehemet [Muhammad] Ali colonized Jaffa, Nablus, and Beisan with Egyptian soldiers and their Sudanese allies. Fourteen years later, Lynch estimated the thirteen thousand inhabitants of Jaffa to be composed of eight thousand Turco-Egyptians, four thousand Greeks and Armenians, and one thousand Jews and Maronites. He did not consider that there were any Arabs at all in that city."

From the Ottoman Census of 1850, prior to the rise of the zionist movement

Muslim citizens 403,795
Christian citizens 43,659
Jewish citizens 15,011
Jewish (foreign-born) Est. 5-10,000 (mostly Moroccan with dual citizenship)
Total Up to 472,465

From a report to the League of Nations "In 1920, the British Government's Interim Report on the Civil Administration of Palestine stated that there were hardly 700,000 people living in Palestine. The drastic need for labor (for public projects) estimates the need for 450,000 Arab laborers from Egypt, 280,000 Arab laborers from Syria, 50-75,000 Arab laborers from Lebanon. It is assumed many will bring their families." - From League of Nations Archives, in the UN Library at Geneva.

In 1920, the Mandate included governance of today's Israel, Jordan, Gaza, Golan Heights, part of Southern Lebanon, and more of Egyptian lands.

Syria and Lebanon were under French Administration, Iraq had been formed from remnants of the former Babylonia, Kurdistan, parts formerly of Ottoman controlled Iran and was under joint French and British Administration. Iran was under French Administration.

From me, they are called quotation marks to connote fabrication.
 
oneworld2 said:
That the PLO was not made up of " Syrian and Egyptian day labourers ". 700,000 Palestinains fled or were ousted during the 1947-49 conflict and around 200.00more after the 67 conflict. To try to say that there were no Palestinians in the PLO is an outright fabrication and a denial of the fact that their ranks were formed overwehelmingly from those people who had suffered these fates. The reference I made about Joan Peters was a direct reference to this denial of the Palestinian people as a people with historic ties and lives in Palestine for centuries , possibly millenia
Click to expand...

A whole lot of Palestinians were not originally from Palestine.

Of those who fled how many can claim to have been in Palestine for any number of generation? You make it sound as if the "Palestinian People" are a distinct group.

Prior to the end of WWI they were simply just another bunch of Ottomans.

oneworld2 said:
The Palestinians have a language , it's Arabic. That's their language and you, or any others here don't get to decide its value even if youy are arrogant enough to think you do. There is no such language as Iraqi , they speak predominantly Arabic with Turkish and Kurdish spoken in some regions. That doesn't mean there is no such thing as an Iraqi. All of this is just basic understanding , an understanding you don't have
Click to expand...

So, no distinct language. And Iraqis are Iraqis because they live in a nation called Iraq (originally Hashemite Kingdom of Iraq) that has its origin 80+ years ago...

oneworld2 said:
They do have a culture in Palestine , one that is akin with the region in general. An Islamic/ Arab culture along with other sects
Click to expand...

So, no distinct culture.

oneworld2 said:
They have a past , everybodty/group has a past. To deny it is completely insane but we see it here and we see you supporting that denial
Click to expand...

A past that doesn't include a single instance of being an independent nations/state for thousands of years. In fact, the last independent nation on Palestinian soil was Judea. Which was called by Romans Syria Palaestina. Since then it has been property of the Rashidun, Umayyad and later Abbasid Caliphates, then Mamluks and finally the Ottomans....

oneworld2 said:
So apart from everything he said being wrong and based on a completely bigoted view of the people themselves , with you supporting that too , there's nothing more to add except to note that had you have had any clue about this conflict at all , outside of the biased and bigoted perspective we see in every post , you would have known this much already
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Blah blah blah bigoted blah blah......

He was far more right than wrong.

oneworld2 said:
I've answered yours and you are still to answer mine , no surprises there............ why did you pretend not to see the denial in his post , he even put the word Palestininas in inverted commas ?
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Why not?

They are an invented people.
 
OldFatGuy said:
From the Journal Reports of T.E. Lawrence for the Commissioner of British Mandates in former Ottoman Lands, 1918

"It was always the foreign soldier who was the police power in Palestine. The Tulunides brought in Turks and Negroes. The Fatamids introduced Berbers, Slavs, Greeks, Kurds, and mercenaries of all kinds. The Mamelukes imported legions of Georgians and Circassians. Each monarch for his personal safety relied on great levies of slave warriors. Saladin, hard-pressed by the Crusaders, received one hundred and fifty thousand Persians who were given lands in Galilee and the Sidon district for their services.

Out of this human patch-work of Jews, Arabs, Armenians, Kalmucks, Persians, Crusaders, Tartars, Indians, Ethiopians, Egyptians, Sudanese, Turks, Mongols, Romans, Kharmazians, Greeks, pilgrims, wanderers, ne'er-do-wells and adventurers, invaders, slaves ... was formed that hodge-podge of blood and mentality we call today "Levantine." ...

In the fourteenth century, drought caused the immigration into Palestine of eighteen thousand "tents" of Yurate Tartars from the Euphrates. Soon followed twenty thousand Ashiri under Gaza, and four thousand Mongols under Moulai, who occupied the Jordan Valley and settled from Jerusalem south. Kaisaite and Yemenite tribes followed in their trail. ...

In 1830 the Albanian conqueror Mehemet [Muhammad] Ali colonized Jaffa, Nablus, and Beisan with Egyptian soldiers and their Sudanese allies. Fourteen years later, Lynch estimated the thirteen thousand inhabitants of Jaffa to be composed of eight thousand Turco-Egyptians, four thousand Greeks and Armenians, and one thousand Jews and Maronites. He did not consider that there were any Arabs at all in that city."

From the Ottoman Census of 1850, prior to the rise of the zionist movement

Muslim citizens 403,795
Christian citizens 43,659
Jewish citizens 15,011
Jewish (foreign-born) Est. 5-10,000 (mostly Moroccan with dual citizenship)
Total Up to 472,465

From a report to the League of Nations "In 1920, the British Government's Interim Report on the Civil Administration of Palestine stated that there were hardly 700,000 people living in Palestine. The drastic need for labor (for public projects) estimates the need for 450,000 Arab laborers from Egypt, 280,000 Arab laborers from Syria, 50-75,000 Arab laborers from Lebanon. It is assumed many will bring their families." - From League of Nations Archives, in the UN Library at Geneva.

In 1920, the Mandate included governance of today's Israel, Jordan, Gaza, Golan Heights, part of Southern Lebanon, and more of Egyptian lands.

Syria and Lebanon were under French Administration, Iraq had been formed from remnants of the former Babylonia, Kurdistan, parts formerly of Ottoman controlled Iran and was under joint French and British Administration. Iran was under French Administration.

From me, they are called quotation marks to connote fabrication.
Click to expand...


Hilarious , having been rumbled playing the descredited Joan Peters , there are no Palestinians only Syrian and Egyptian day workers , card you decide to go back to Saladin !!! :roll:

If you were consistent , using your own methods for who should and who should not constitute a people , you should have everyone in inverted commas as a " fabrication "

The history of my own country sees ancient Britons mixed with Germans , French, Italians , Nordics , Dutch , Indians , Pakistanis , Africans, Poles etc etc as the various historic twists and turns of a territory and it's interactions with other areas and peoples of the world

Do you put modern day Americans in inverted commas ? Deny their history ? Deny their English language ? etc etc deny their territorial claims as the claims of a fabricated people ? Sure you do :roll:


It's desperate and is so easy to rubbish I cant actually believe you decided to put this hogwash up as a response to being called out about the PLO not consisting of Palestinians
 
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Fledermaus said:
A whole lot of Palestinians were not originally from Palestine.

Of those who fled how many can claim to have been in Palestine for any number of generation? You make it sound as if the "Palestinian People" are a distinct group.

Prior to the end of WWI they were simply just another bunch of Ottomans.



So, no distinct language. And Iraqis are Iraqis because they live in a nation called Iraq (originally Hashemite Kingdom of Iraq) that has its origin 80+ years ago...



So, no distinct culture.



A past that doesn't include a single instance of being an independent nations/state for thousands of years. In fact, the last independent nation on Palestinian soil was Judea. Which was called by Romans Syria Palaestina. Since then it has been property of the Rashidun, Umayyad and later Abbasid Caliphates, then Mamluks and finally the Ottomans....



Blah blah blah bigoted blah blah......

He was far more right than wrong.



Why not?

They are an invented people.
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More hypocritical right wing babble with the same arrogant , we will decide if you qualify as a people , junk

Since when has regional people required a distinct culture or language to be recognized as the residents/occupiers of a peice of land. And this from two Americans using the language of their former colonial masters :lamo

As I said to the other poster who suffers from the same problems you do , if you want to go back thousands of years and highlight the movements of people to and from places then NOBODY can be classed as a people with a recognized territorial entity, so you should put everyone in inverted commas but you don't because you are total hypocrites and wrap the obvious bigotry in ridiculously hobbled together " justifications " for that bias

Anyone with any sense will be embarrassed by the lengths you two have gone and are prepared to go to attempt to justify what is just base bigotry
 
oneworld2 said:
More hypocritical right wing babble with the same arrogant , we will decide if you qualify as a people , junk

Since when has regional people required a distinct culture or language to be recognized as the residents/occupiers of a peice of land. And this from two Americans using the language of their former colonial masters :lamo

As I said to the other poster who suffers from the same problems you do , if you want to go back thousands of years and highlight the movements of people to and from places then NOBODY can be classed as a people with a recognized territorial entity, so you should put everyone in inverted commas but you don't because you are total hypocrites and wrap the obvious bigotry in ridiculously hobbled together " justifications " for that bias

Anyone with any sense will be embarrassed by the lengths you two have gone and are prepared to go to attempt to justify what is just base bigotry
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Interesting.... A whole lot of typing but you don't actually make a case for the "Palestinians".
 
Fledermaus said:
Interesting.... A whole lot of typing but you don't actually make a case for the "Palestinians".
Click to expand...

Using the right wing hogwash you and OFG have used there isn't a case for any modern day people and the people of every nation should be in inverted commas........... that's the whole point that is lost on you because of the complete bias with which you view the conflict

Hysterical............ the term blind bigotry springs to mind
 
oneworld2 said:
Using the right wing hogwash you and OFG have used there isn't a case for any modern day people and the people of every nation should be in inverted commas........... that's the whole point that is lost on you because of the complete bias with which you view the conflict

Hysterical............ the term blind bigotry springs to mind
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And another post with NOTHING in reference to the Palestinians.
 
oneworld2 said:
Hilarious , having been rumbled playing the descredited Joan Peters , there are no Palestinians only Syrian and Egyptian day workers , card you decide to go back to Saladin !!! :roll:

If you were consistent , using your own methods for who should and who should not constitute a people , you should have everyone in inverted commas as a " fabrication "

The history of my own country sees ancient Britons mixed with Germans , French, Italians , Nordics , Dutch , Indians , Pakistanis , Africans, Poles etc etc as the various historic twists and turns of a territory and it's interactions with other areas and peoples of the world

Do you put modern day Americans in inverted commas ? Deny their history ? Deny their English language ? etc etc deny their territorial claims as the claims of a fabricated people ? Sure you do :roll:


It's desperate and is so easy to rubbish I cant actually believe you decided to put this hogwash up as a response to being called out about the PLO not consisting of Palestinians
Click to expand...

We are not discussing Britain or the US. We are discussing a false claim establishing a people who did not exist until fabricated in the head of an Egyptian, Yassir Arafat.

There were no Celts until the Romans needed a label for the non-Germanic tribes they were confronting in western Europe. Political exigencies have often nothing to do with reality. Technically, the Etruscans were Celts by Roman definition, but since they were absorbed into Roman citizenship, you with your absence of logic and substantive ignorance of history, could claim the Romans were really Celts. I believe I understand you, better than you understand yourself, following the British tradition of hating Jews with any excuse and caricature you can dig up. You are FOS.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Closed for review - All posts still subject to moderation.

Perhaps consider revisiting the ME Forum rules before posting elsewhere in this forum. Specifically;

ML Prohibited Conduct
I) Anything considered not conducive and anathema to civil discussion/ambiance


ML Prohibited Terms/Expressions
R) The Palestinians do not exist, are not a "true" people or variations thereof
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