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Kushner unveils Middle East peace plan

Rogue Valley

Rogue Valley

Lead or get out of the way
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White House's Kushner unveils economic portion of Middle East peace plan

Abbas' spokesman attacks US-led economic conference in Bahrain and stresses that there will be no agreement without the Palestinians.

6/22/19
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Trump administration’s $50 billion Middle East economic plan calls for creation of a global investment fund to lift the Palestinian and neighboring Arab state economies, and construction of a $5 billion transportation corridor to connect the West Bank and Gaza, according to U.S. officials and documents reviewed by Reuters. The “peace to prosperity” plan, set to be presented by President Donald Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner at an international conference in Bahrain next week, includes 179 infrastructure and business projects, according to the documents. The approach toward reviving the moribund Israeli-Palestinian peace process was criticized by the Palestinians on Saturday. The economic revival plan would take place only if a political solution to the region’s long-running problems is reached. More than half of the $50 billion would be spent in the economically troubled Palestinian territories over 10 years while the rest would be split between Egypt, Lebanon and Jordan. Some of the projects would be in Egypt’s Sinai peninsula, where investments could benefit Palestinians living in adjacent Gaza, a crowded and impoverished coastal enclave.

The plan also proposes nearly a billion dollars to build up the Palestinians’ tourism sector, a seemingly impractical notion for now given the frequent flareups between Israeli forces and militants from Hamas-ruled Gaza, and the tenuous security in the occupied West Bank. The Trump administration hopes that other countries, principally wealthy Gulf states, and private investors, would foot much of the bill, Kushner told Reuters. Veteran Palestinian negotiator Hanan Ashrawi dismissed the proposals on Saturday, saying: “These are all intentions, these are all abstract promises” and said only a political solution would solve the conflict. Palestinian officials fear that, even with all the high-priced promises, Kushner’s economic formula is just a prelude to a political plan that would jettison the two-state solution, the long-time cornerstone of U.S. and international peace efforts.
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This is D.O.A. I could have told Kushner that much over a cup of Starbucks coffee. Kushner is trying to push an economic windfall in lieu of an honest and mutual political settlement.

Related: White House unveils economic component of Middle East peace plan
 
Rogue Valley said:
This is D.O.A. I could have told Kushner that much over a cup of Starbucks coffee. Kushner is trying to push an economic windfall in lieu of an honest and mutual political settlement.
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More than 5k years of never ending conflict in the region, and the arrogance of anyone to think they can bring peace to the table isn't worth a paper cup of diner dishwater coffee from an urn that hasn't ever been cleaned. Not even with the free fake cream and sugar packets.
 
Wonder who the “potential donor” governments are?


The plan also proposes nearly a billion dollars to build up the Palestinians’ tourism sector, a seemingly impractical notion for now given the frequent flareups between Israeli forces and militants from Hamas-ruled Gaza, and the tenuous security in the occupied West Bank. - from the OP link

Tourism sector?
 
Peace in the Middle East is a worthy goal.

Now, had Trump stayed out of Iran, let the Iran nuclear deal alone, not started beating the war drums against that nation, that would have been a good step in the right direction.
Had Trump not vetoed the bill to pull us out of Saudi Arabia's war with Yemen, that would have been yet another step.
Had Trump respected Congress' desire to refrain from selling arms to Saudi Arabia, that would at least not have been a step backward.
Had more and more steps continued, perhaps one day peace could have been achieved, but it would take a long time. Bringing about peace in a region that has known nothing but war for thousands of years is definitely a long term goal.
 
Rogue Valley said:
White House's Kushner unveils economic portion of Middle East peace plan

Abbas' spokesman attacks US-led economic conference in Bahrain and stresses that there will be no agreement without the Palestinians.



This is D.O.A. I could have told Kushner that much over a cup of Starbucks coffee. Kushner is trying to push an economic windfall in lieu of an honest and mutual political settlement.

Related: White House unveils economic component of Middle East peace plan
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Perhaps designed to fail so that confiscation of Palestinian land can be accelerated in the wake of the rejection?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Evilroddy said:
Perhaps designed to fail so that confiscation of Palestinian land can be accelerated in the wake of the rejection?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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Lotsa beachfront, doncha know!
 
Evilroddy said:
Perhaps designed to fail so that confiscation of Palestinian land can be accelerated in the wake of the rejection?
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Wouldn't surprise me if Trump gave Bibi the green light to annex everything.
 
Rexedgar said:
Tourism sector?
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There was a time when more than a half a million Christian pilgrims visited Bethlehem annually. Of course, most of the churches, chapels, monasteries are now abandoned ruins or plowed under with mosques and other structures where they once stood. Christian archeological digs long covered over. The idolatry of a Roman estuary smashed into sand, the baths buried in rubble, the historical value lost forever. Allah commanded. Tunnels built for smuggling arms led to the black market for Jewish antiquities or destruction, another historical loss which could have brought in visitors to a museum that will never be built.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Peace in the Middle East is a worthy goal.

Now, had Trump stayed out of Iran, let the Iran nuclear deal alone, not started beating the war drums against that nation, that would have been a good step in the right direction.
Had Trump not vetoed the bill to pull us out of Saudi Arabia's war with Yemen, that would have been yet another step.
Had Trump respected Congress' desire to refrain from selling arms to Saudi Arabia, that would at least not have been a step backward.
Had more and more steps continued, perhaps one day peace could have been achieved, but it would take a long time. Bringing about peace in a region that has known nothing but war for thousands of years is definitely a long term goal.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't have made an iota of difference. Arms can be bought from Bulgaria, South Africa, Brazil, Russia, China, and many other sources. Maybe not as sophisticated, but powerful enough for continued never ending death and destruction. Sweden's Saab is selling a lovely little fighter bomber, more advanced than anything offered by the US or Russia, and relatively inexpensive. 25 for the price of an F35. Finland bought 50 to keep Russian planes from its airspace. The intrusions by Russian aircraft over Finland has come to a halt. Damn crazy Finns.

Evolution proves where there is a void, something or someone with an itch will step into that niche.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Peace in the Middle East is a worthy goal.

Now, had Trump stayed out of Iran, let the Iran nuclear deal alone, not started beating the war drums against that nation, that would have been a good step in the right direction.
Had Trump not vetoed the bill to pull us out of Saudi Arabia's war with Yemen, that would have been yet another step.
Had Trump respected Congress' desire to refrain from selling arms to Saudi Arabia, that would at least not have been a step backward.
Had more and more steps continued, perhaps one day peace could have been achieved, but it would take a long time. Bringing about peace in a region that has known nothing but war for thousands of years is definitely a long term goal.
Click to expand...

Right. So letting Iran pursue its regional geopolitical ambitions through funding non-state terrorist and militant actors unopposed would have somehow been a good start to peace in the region.

Not sure how that makes any sense, but will give you the floor to play that one out sequentially.


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Let's not get sidetracked here with whataboutisms. This thread is about Jared Kushner's "grand economic offer" to the Palestinians.

Unfortunately, Mr. Kushner has not yet presented his core pitch, which must be the political settlement details.

It's difficult to evaluate what Kushner has presented so far because it doesn't really cut to the chase. There's not much 'meat' on this bone.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Let's not get sidetracked here with whataboutisms. This thread is about Jared Kushner's "grand economic offer" to the Palestinians.

Unfortunately, Mr. Kushner has not yet presented his core pitch, which must be the political settlement details.

It's difficult to evaluate what Kushner has presented so far because it doesn't really cut to the chase. There's not much 'meat' on this bone.
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I think if anything is going to get consensus on this forum it is the proposition that this plan will fail.

We clearly have differing views on why it will fail and who is to blame, but the likelihood of the Palestinians accepting anything from this administration (or, frankly, any administration) is zero unless there is so much external pressure brought to force them to compromise but (1) that isn’t going to happen and (2) the pressure needed would have needed to have been brought for years already to get them to start preparing their people for a compromise and that clearly didn’t happen.

At least this administration is trying. It is a fool’s errand, but getting the Palestinians to accept Israel’s existence as an independent Jewish state that they dont have a claim to always has been.




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CJ 2.0 said:
Right. So letting Iran pursue its regional geopolitical ambitions through funding non-state terrorist and militant actors unopposed would have somehow been a good start to peace in the region.

Not sure how that makes any sense, but will give you the floor to play that one out sequentially.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Iran's main opponent was Iraq. How did taking out Iraq work for peace?
 
The Trump administration, on the one hand, feels that economic aid will appeal to the Palestinians and help resolve this Middle East conflict. But on the other hand, feel that eliminating economic aid to Central American countries will appeal to them and stop them from coming here seeking economic aid.

It shows their incredibly narrow view of the world: just because Trump and his family members can be bought off easily, they feel everybody else can be too.
 
OldFatGuy said:
More than 5k years of never ending conflict in the region, and the arrogance of anyone to think they can bring peace to the table isn't worth a paper cup of diner dishwater coffee from an urn that hasn't ever been cleaned. Not even with the free fake cream and sugar packets.
Click to expand...

I can see how someone might think the economic incentive is a starting point, but I agree that there is much more to this conflict than just agreeing to make money and putting everything else aside.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Let's not get sidetracked here with whataboutisms. This thread is about Jared Kushner's "grand economic offer" to the Palestinians.

Unfortunately, Mr. Kushner has not yet presented his core pitch, which must be the political settlement details.

It's difficult to evaluate what Kushner has presented so far because it doesn't really cut to the chase. There's not much 'meat' on this bone.
Click to expand...

Which of course has been the main sticking point for quite some time. Offering someone the promise of making money through the investment that will come sounds nice, but Mr Kushner's brought dessert when it's dinner people want. I do think it's a good idea once a political solution is obtained; the financial involvement from other Gulf states is a move in the right direction.
 
CJ 2.0 said:
We clearly have differing views on why it will fail and who is to blame, but the likelihood of the Palestinians accepting anything from this administration (or, frankly, any administration) is zero unless there is so much external pressure brought to force them to compromise
Click to expand...

I beginning to think this is what Kushner's economic stimulus proposal is intended to do. Get Arab nations (such as Jordan and Egypt) that are offered US stimulus funds on board to vote yes to Kushner's economic proposal at the Bahrain meeting of the donor and the receiving states. The implicit message is that you can receive billions in US/Kuwaiti/Gulf State funding, but the quid-pro-quo here is to pressure the Palestinians into accepting Kushner's [pending] political settlement proposal. The Palestinians/Jordanians/Egyptians are the mouse. The economic proposal is the enticing cheese. The trap mechanism is Kushner's lopsided political settlement.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Iran's main opponent was Iraq. How did taking out Iraq work for peace?
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So because removing Iraq freed Iran to advance regional ambitions we should now let Iran pursue its expansionism leveraging terrorist proxies unopposed?

That doesn’t really make sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Rogue Valley said:
I beginning to think this is what Kushner's economic stimulus proposal is intended to do. Get Arab nations (such as Jordan and Egypt) that are offered US stimulus funds on board to vote yes to Kushner's economic proposal at the Bahrain meeting of the donor and the receiving states. The implicit message is that you can receive billions in US/Kuwaiti/Gulf State funding, but the quid-pro-quo here is to pressure the Palestinians into accepting Kushner's [pending] political settlement proposal. The Palestinians/Jordanians/Egyptians are the mouse. The economic proposal is the enticing cheese. The trap mechanism is Kushner's lopsided political settlement.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I do suspect that this administration, rightly, appreciates that part of the pre-requisite for peace is stripping the Arab world’s costless empty support for Palestinian oppositionalism away by dangling carrots in front of them as well. It isn’t a bad strategy, particularly since the entire Palestinian nationalism thing was created by them to act as another arrow in their quiver in trying to destroy Israel in the 50s and 60s. They worked long and hard to create a palestinian national identity built solely around opposition to Jewish self determination in Israel.

Might pay off in 30 years, but don’t see it causing the Palestinians to say yes in the next 5 years and I don’t see the international community or the next administration to continue to pursue this. They are much more likely to revert to the obvious failure of a strategy that has been pursued for so long and pushed so aggressively by Obama (ie pressuring Israel while denying and ignoring Palestinian rejectionalism and oppositionalism as the core of Palestinian identity).

But time will tell, I guess.


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Palestinian officials fear that, even with all the high-priced promises, Kushner’s economic formula is just a prelude to a political plan that would jettison the two-state solution, the long-time cornerstone of U.S. and international peace efforts.
Click to expand...

Probably this is the Trump administration's true intention. The $50 billion Middle East economic plan would only benefit the Palestinians, only after they agree to scrap the two-state solution, which is the source of ethnic conflicts in the region. I don't think we can achieve peace by encouraging separatism.
 
CJ 2.0 said:
So because removing Iraq freed Iran to advance regional ambitions we should now let Iran pursue its expansionism leveraging terrorist proxies unopposed?

That doesn’t really make sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

No, it makes a lot more sense for the leading nations of the world to get together and make a deal with Iran. Unfortunately, that deal was damaged by the new American president.
 
CJ 2.0 said:
So because removing Iraq freed Iran to advance regional ambitions we should now let Iran pursue its expansionism leveraging terrorist proxies unopposed?

That doesn’t really make sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

CJ 2.0:

It was US policy (two Iraq wars) which created the power vacuum and regional chaos into which Iran expanded its influence and proxy military power into Mesopotamia and reinforced its power in the Levant. Take out Iran and you could see an expansionist and already nuclear-armed Pakistan or an expansionist and soon-to-be nuclear-armed and Islamist Saudi Arabia or an expansionist and nuclear-armed Israel disrupting the region. Blowing things up and violent overt or covert regime change are usually failed policies for reestablishing political and military equilibrium in a region. It's time for a new approach.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
ElChupacabra said:
I can see how someone might think the economic incentive is a starting point, but I agree that there is much more to this conflict than just agreeing to make money and putting everything else aside.
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Why not a plan in it’s totality?
What has been presented is the dangling carrot; phase 2 will be the stick
 
justabubba said:
Why not a plan in it’s totality?
What has been presented is the dangling carrot; phase 2 will be the stick
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Sure, but that's the hard part better diplomats have not been able to resolve. Getting people to fund growth once the hard part is done sounds nice, but circumvents the real issue.
 
Rexedgar said:
Wonder who the “potential donor” governments are?


The plan also proposes nearly a billion dollars to build up the Palestinians’ tourism sector, a seemingly impractical notion for now given the frequent flareups between Israeli forces and militants from Hamas-ruled Gaza, and the tenuous security in the occupied West Bank. - from the OP link

Tourism sector?
Click to expand...

Trump Towers Gaza
 
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