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Thread: Should the Isreali justification be applied to other nations

  1. #61
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    oneworld2's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Isreali justification be applied to other nations

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    As usual you enter a thread with the intention of throwing personal attacks before anything else.
    Please post on the subject or do not post at all. Discussing a poster instead of discussing the subject is never helpful.
    I " entered the thread" to correct something that was incorrect , there was no personal attack so stop playing the victim when it is obvious your are the perpetrator .

    All's you and the other antisemite card dependent poster here have done is colour your posts with ongoing sand sustained personal attacks. It's all you EVER do in fact
    There never has been a peace process, but rather an annexation process that used the “peace process” as a facade

    There are no victories, in all our histories , without love

  2. #62
    global liberation

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    Re: Should the Isreali justification be applied to other nations

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Native American tribes have full control over membership, leadership and their land. NA land is not subject to state law, only federal law, and the state has no jurisdiction. They have their own courts, their own cops and law beyond federal they make.

    So, yeah, they have that.

    Indian reservation - Wikipedia

    Canada does as well.

    Indian reserve - Wikipedia

    Australia no one cares.

    Australia sucks
    Pretty much every country has preserves for displaced native populations. It's not like that idea is new. Israel is one of millions.

  3. #63
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    Re: Should the Isreali justification be applied to other nations

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    That's not why and you're capable of seeing what was going in post #14. Total meltdown, rabid attacks. Ridiculous.
    But that's what you want to happen and that's why you play the antisemite card all of the time in the very " when did you stop beating your wife " way you accuse everyone else of operating.

    And before you claim that he is in breach of the rules here remember it is against them to accuse someone of being an antisemite. So if you are going to report him report yourself whilst you at it
    There never has been a peace process, but rather an annexation process that used the “peace process” as a facade

    There are no victories, in all our histories , without love

  4. #64
    DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
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    Re: Should the Isreali justification be applied to other nations

    Quote Originally Posted by oneworld2 View Post
    What is this utter nonsense

    The reason Israel has around 20% Arabs making up the population is purely down to the fact that its leaderships failed in their bid to get rid of them all. They called it " transfer " but the modern term that encapsulates it better is banned from use in this forum so cannot be used. They got rid of as many as they could by chasing them out or not letting them back in circa 1947-49 and then the dumped around another 2-3 00,000 more of them outside the gates in 1967.
    "The world is flat and Israel had it flattened" argument.
    People who depend on reality will depend on reality and those who seek CT nonsense will always find some, you're making arguments that you know are completely detached just because the other choice is recognizing the wrongness of your claims. The Israeli declration of independence back in 1948 right after the war has ended accepted Arab citizens of the land. Displacements had taken place, some were even forceful displacements, that's however not to suggest that the state didn't accept the Arab inhabitants of the land that became Israel as full and equal citizens.

    " None Germans in Germany " ??........... the difference being in Germany that your ethno-religious make-up doesn't stop you being German and doesn't affect your status. If you were born there you are German , note not Arab German or Muslim German , just German with the same rights as any other German . Same for all the other countries you mentioned
    Funny that you try to make fun of his accurate words by writing such ridiculous nonsense. The Germans he's referring to are ethnic Germans. Of course all citizens of Germany are called "Germans", because it's a reference to the German citizenship. If Israel was named "Judea" and Israelis were named "Jews" to go along with the nationality then all citizens who are named Israeli today would have been named Jews as well, clearly. So he's right regarding non-Germans (ethnicity).
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

  5. #65
    DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
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    Re: Should the Isreali justification be applied to other nations

    Quote Originally Posted by oneworld2 View Post
    But that's what you want to happen and that's why you play the antisemite card all of the time in the very " when did you stop beating your wife " way you accuse everyone else of operating.

    And before you claim that he is in breach of the rules here remember it is against them to accuse someone of being an antisemite. So if you are going to report him report yourself whilst you at it
    I don't play any card, I oppose the views promoted as I see them and I will continue to do so. Lashing out at posters is clearly unhelpful, and indeed in violation of the forum's rules.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

  6. #66
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    Re: Should the Isreali justification be applied to other nations

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    "The world is flat and Israel had it flattened" argument.
    Oh please , give it a rest with the perpetual victim status

    People who depend on reality will depend on reality and those who seek CT nonsense will always find some, you're making arguments that you know are completely detached just because the other choice is recognizing the wrongness of your claims. The Israeli declration of independence back in 1948 right after the war has ended accepted Arab citizens of the land. Displacements had taken place, some were even forceful displacements, that's however not to suggest that the state didn't accept the Arab inhabitants of the land that became Israel as full and equal citizens.
    You inhabit your own reality whereby the whole world is antisemitic , on display again for the umpteenth time

    There was nothing in my post that was CT . They managed to get out and keep out enough Arabs to maintain a significant Jewish majority in the area claimed as the state in the post independence war aftermath and could live with that with the world watching. But every time there is an opportunity to oust others it is taken. Did they not remove another 2-3 00,000 Palestinians in the aftermath of the 67 conflict ?


    Funny that you try to make fun of his accurate words by writing such ridiculous nonsense. The Germans he's referring to are ethnic Germans. Of course all citizens of Germany are called "Germans", because it's a reference to the German citizenship. If Israel was named "Judea" and Israelis were named "Jews" to go along with the nationality then all citizens who are named Israeli today would have been named Jews as well, clearly. So he's right regarding non-Germans (ethnicity).
    No, what is dishonest is your editing out of my post the part that actually dealt with this very point and acknowledged it. And the reason you edited out was because it contained a part about those ethnicities NOT indigenous to the area , those being assimilated , in the case of the I/P conflict are the Jewish people NOT the Arabs.

    You're so transparent in your attempts to deceive the reader
    There never has been a peace process, but rather an annexation process that used the “peace process” as a facade

    There are no victories, in all our histories , without love

  7. #67
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    Re: Should the Isreali justification be applied to other nations

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Israel is a nation predicated on maintaining power in the hands of a particular ethnic people. the justification for this is a dispossessed people have a right to rule their own nation on their historical territory, after having faced genocide. My question is, should this be applied to other nations where an ethnic group has faced genocide and had their lands taken?

    In the US, Native Americans faced persecution and dispossession, so should the US implement policies to ensure the non-Native American population can't rise above 20%, and that most positions of power are held by Native Americans? What policies would people who think Israeli ethno-nationalism is justified like to see in nations where the indigenous inhabitants have faced dispossession and genocide, such as the US, Australia or Canada, in order to restore the indigenous population in a way that is justified by Israel?
    Spud_meister:

    To your question at the end of your first paragraph, the answer is no, unless it can be achieved peacefully and with the consent of all people living on the land which will be part of the proposed ethno-religious state to be. Creating nations by force when a foreign population forcefully displaces an already settled one is a predatory and morally dangerous enterprise.

    To your second paragraph the genocide and forcible displacement of First Nations Peoples in America by Europeans is not a parallel with the creation of the modern State of Israel. Many enthno-religious groups were involved in the conquest and depopulation of the "New World" from Protestant-Englishmen to Portuguese-Catholics and Spanish-Catholics. Thus there was not one ethno-religious conqueror but many. A better parallel would be the creation of Crusader States and Kingdoms in the Holy Land between the Twelfth and Fourteenth Centuries by European invaders like the Normans who imposed by force of arms a set of ethno-religious states in the Levant and almost completely excluded the local Arab population from any real political power except sometimes being able to advise the foreign rulers and elites.

    Finally, returning to your first paragraph once more, the modern State of Israel is a state but not a single nation as some claim because it includes peoples of many national heratiges and language groups today. A Falasha Jew from Northeast Africa has very little in common with a Sephardic Jew from Spain and even less in common with an Ashkenazi Jew from Russia. The glue which holds the modern State of Israel together as a people is a common religious tradition and a shared cultural trauma from unjust pogroms and an utterly evil holocaust of attempted genocide by Europeans, but not a common ethnic tradition.

    The notion that the Levant or even parts of the Levant are the Jews "own land" or their "historical territory" is flawed too. While some modern-day Sephardic Jews can make that claim better than most citizens of the modern State of Israel, the history of the region shows that the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews/Modern Israelis do not have an exclusive claim to the land which Israel claims and that other nations have valid and in some cases equally valid claims to that same land. However the modern State of Israel has a superior military to enforce its claims to the exclusion of other claimants and so has a right to exist, at least for now. History is fickle and what seems certain today can change precipitously tomorrow. History recognises no rights in the long-term.

    Cheers.
    Evilroddy.
    Last edited by Evilroddy; 04-18-19 at 08:23 PM.

  8. #68
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    Re: Should the Isreali justification be applied to other nations

    Moderator's Warning:
    Should the Isreali justification be applied to other nationsClosing down this disaster of a thread. More moderator action may be taken for posts made prior to the thread closure.

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