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Trump: It is time for the United States to fully recognize Israel's Sovereignty over Golan

Apocalypse

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
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Donald J. Trump on Twitter: "After 52 years it is time for the United States to fully recognize Israel’s Sovereignty over the Golan Heights, which is of critical strategic and security importance to the State of Israel and Regional Stability!"

Donald J. Trump

After 52 years it is time for the United States to fully recognize Israel’s Sovereignty over the Golan Heights, which is of critical strategic and security importance to the State of Israel and Regional Stability!
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A historic day.
 
Trump ought to allow Russia to take what it wants also.

Historic? It's a disgusting embrace of imperialist expansionism.
 
Trump has effectively endorsed forcibly taking land from other countries which sets an atrocious principle.

This move very clearly and deliberately undermines standing International Laws. Specifically;

UN Security Council Resolution 497
S/RES/497 (1981) of 17 December 1981

UN Security Council Resolution 242
S/RES/242 (1967) of 22 November 1967

Still, it shouldn't really surprise folks not part of his cult that he would go down this line as he is a complete nut job.
 
oneworld2 said:
No , I stand by the call. Maybe you should elaborate on what you mean.
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How about the US follow international law for asylum seekers then
 
It's also time for the United States to recognize that Trump is an idiot.
 
Obscurity said:
Trump ought to allow Russia to take what it wants also.

Historic? It's a disgusting embrace of imperialist expansionism.
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Regarding Russia.

With Trump openly stating that the United States fully recognizes Israel's Sovereignty over Golan Heights, he is also suggesting that would also render any territory in the world subject to conquest and annexation. There would be no legal basis to insist that Russia must return Crimea to Ukraine.

Completely in contrast to what was stated here by Pompeo 9 months ago.....

US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo says " Russia has acted in a manner unworthy of a great nation" by annexing Crimea. US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has said the United States will "never recognise Russia's annexation of Crimea" and that the US "will continue to insist that Ukraine's territorial integrity be restored." Pompeo said in a statement made on Wednesday that the US "upholds its commitment to the international principle of sovereign equality."

"Russia, through its 2014 invasion of Ukraine and its attempted annexation of Crimea, sought to undermine a bedrock international principle shared by democratic states: that no country can change the borders of another by force," the statement by Pompeo read. "The states of the world, including Russia, agreed to this principle in the United Nations Charter, pledging to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state," it continued. "Through its actions, Russia has acted in a manner unworthy of a great nation and has chosen to isolate itself from the international community."

US will 'never recognise Russia's annexation of Crimea' | Russia News | Al Jazeera
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Serenity said:
Regarding Russia.

With Trump openly stating that the United States fully recognizes Israel's Sovereignty over Golan Heights, he is also suggesting that would also render any territory in the world subject to conquest and annexation. There would be no legal basis to insist that Russia must return Crimea to Ukraine.

Completely in contrast to what was stated here by Pompeo 9 months ago.....
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Each case should be addressed differently.

Israel came to hold the Golan after surviving a war of annihilation called on it by its neighbors including Syria.
The Golan gives a strategic advantage with no equal to the ones holding it. When the Syrians held it they would target the entire Northern Israel with ease, that's not something that should have been allowed anymore.
The US recognition of the Golan is essentially a statement that after more than 50 years of holding it and after almost 40 years since annexing it, meaning decades of Israeli life in the Golan, the Golan is not going to change hands again.
It's a recognition that it cannot come to be Syrian again with the Syrian regime always bent on either bringing destruction to Israel itself or allowing others who are willing to do so to make use of their territory for that purpose.
Just like Iran is allowed today to try and form a terror base in Syria's border with Israel.

Crimea is a completely different story.
 
jdog21 said:
How about the US follow international law for asylum seekers then
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Sure , any that are signed up to them but seek to undermine or evade their application are the enemies of peace .,order and justice imo
 
Apocalypse said:
Each case should be addressed differently.

Israel came to hold the Golan after surviving a war of annihilation called on it by its neighbors including Syria.
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Correction, it came to occupy the territory after it decided to attack it's neighbours in 1967. The applicability of the 4th Geneva Convention applies and the taking of land and keeping it via warfare is strictly forbidden. Israel , as a signatory to that convention , is thus bound by it

You will not be allowed to rewrite the history here no matter how often you try

The Golan gives a strategic advantage with no equal to the ones holding it. When the Syrians held it they would target the entire Northern Israel with ease, that's not something that should have been allowed anymore.
Click to expand...

Moshe Dayan admitted that more than 80% of the incidents you refer to in the above were initiated by the state of Israel in a deliberate attempt to cause the very actions you now claim were down to the Syrians. If an agreement were struck and the Golan given back to Syria ,as it should be , you would have the right to self defence and international law would be on your side too.

The US recognition of the Golan is essentially a statement that after more than 50 years of holding it and after almost 40 years since annexing it, meaning decades of Israeli life in the Golan, the Golan is not going to change hands again.
Click to expand...

And that's why it undermines international law so badly. It reads , if you commit a crime and get away with it for a long time it ceases to be a crime. It is the domain of those seeking lawlessness and chaos. It is the murderer that wants to see their crime squashed if they aren't able to be convicted , for whatever reason , if the time limit since their crime exceeds 5 years. That you can even attempt to support such ridiculous nonsense is pretty dreadful imo

It's a recognition that it cannot come to be Syrian again with the Syrian regime always bent on either bringing destruction to Israel itself or allowing others who are willing to do so to make use of their territory for that purpose.
Just like Iran is allowed today to try and form a terror base in Syria's border with Israel.
Click to expand...

Israel has been bringing trouble or destruction to it's neighbours since its inception , actually since before that. Is past performance a reason to disqualify a country's right to maintain it's sovereign territory ? If that were the case the Israel project in the ME would and should have been abandoned long ago
Crimea is a completely different story.
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You would say that though regardless of the facts
 
Apocalypse said:
Each case should be addressed differently.

Israel came to hold the Golan after surviving a war of annihilation called on it by its neighbors including Syria.
The Golan gives a strategic advantage with no equal to the ones holding it. When the Syrians held it they would target the entire Northern Israel with ease, that's not something that should have been allowed anymore.
The US recognition of the Golan is essentially a statement that after more than 50 years of holding it and after almost 40 years since annexing it, meaning decades of Israeli life in the Golan, the Golan is not going to change hands again.
It's a recognition that it cannot come to be Syrian again with the Syrian regime always bent on either bringing destruction to Israel itself or allowing others who are willing to do so to make use of their territory for that purpose.
Just like Iran is allowed today to try and form a terror base in Syria's border with Israel.

Crimea is a completely different story.
Click to expand...

I am completely positive that the Russians opinion on Crimea would be the exact same braindead justification you just used for illegal seizure of territory from a sovereign nation that Israel did.

Moreover, Israel is ignoring the Geneva convention which outlaws the taking of land in this manner.

And, IIRC, Israel attacked first in 1967.
Disgusting.
 
oneworld2 said:
Correction, it came to occupy the territory after it decided to attack it's neighbours in 1967. The applicability of the 4th Geneva Convention applies and the taking of land and keeping it via warfare is strictly forbidden. Israel , as a signatory to that convention , is thus bound by it

You will not be allowed to rewrite the history here no matter how often you try



Moshe Dayan admitted that more than 80% of the incidents you refer to in the above were initiated by the state of Israel in a deliberate attempt to cause the very actions you now claim were down to the Syrians. If an agreement were struck and the Golan given back to Syria ,as it should be , you would have the right to self defence and international law would be on your side too.



And that's why it undermines international law so badly. It reads , if you commit a crime and get away with it for a long time it ceases to be a crime. It is the domain of those seeking lawlessness and chaos. It is the murderer that wants to see their crime squashed if they aren't able to be convicted , for whatever reason , if the time limit since their crime exceeds 5 years. That you can even attempt to support such ridiculous nonsense is pretty dreadful imo



Israel has been bringing trouble or destruction to it's neighbours since its inception , actually since before that. Is past performance a reason to disqualify a country's right to maintain it's sovereign territory ? If that were the case the Israel project in the ME would and should have been abandoned long ago


You would say that though regardless of the facts
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Your history revisionism makes you irrelevant.
The widely accepted truth is that Israel was defending itself, you cannot change that.

The territory was used by the Syrian aggressors to attack Israeli towns at Northern Israel.
Today the situation there is even worse with Syria's cooperation with Iranian terrorists for the purpose of harming Israel.
To simply give the territory away when it was taken in a war of survival for Israel against a nation trying to annihilate it completely, is not a sane thing to do and is not a moral thing to do.
It's been Israeli far longer than it's been Syrian now too.

There was however an intention to give the territory back in exchange for a peace deal at the beginning as was done with Egypt, but since that was constantly refused, last time in Ehud Olmert's time as Israeli PM, that's never going to happen.
The US recognition is a good step forward recognizing the Israeli life in the Golan. It shows things are moving in the moral direction, in spite of those calling for Israel's annihilation.
Hopefully more countries will follow soon just as was the case with Jerusalem.
 
Obscurity said:
I am completely positive that the Russians opinion on Crimea would be the exact same braindead justification you just used for illegal seizure of territory from a sovereign nation that Israel did.

Moreover, Israel is ignoring the Geneva convention which outlaws the taking of land in this manner.

And, IIRC, Israel attacked first in 1967.
Disgusting.
Click to expand...

The Crimea subject is reasoned entirely different by the Russians, you're just showing yet more ignorance on another worldly known subject.
Egypt's blockading of the stratis of Tiran was an act of war initiating the conflict in 1967. You're siding with aggressors who wish to annihilate another country, which simply goes to show your immorality.
 
Apocalypse said:
The Crimea subject is reasoned entirely different by the Russians, you're just showing yet more ignorance on another worldly known subject.
Egypt's blockading of the stratis of Tiran was an act of war initiating the conflict in 1967. You're siding with aggressors who wish to annihilate another country, which simply goes to show your immorality.
Click to expand...

I don't care what justification Israel uses to defend the illegal seizure of sovereign territory.

Israel attacked first, not Syria. Shutting the straits was a bad act but it could have been solved through diplomacy instead of warfare.

You will not be allowed to rewrite history here. Israel attacked with its airforce first. Israel broke the Geneva convention and thus illegally seized that territory, and I don't give a **** what you Netanyahuphiles want to say about it.
 
Serenity said:
Regarding Russia.

With Trump openly stating that the United States fully recognizes Israel's Sovereignty over Golan Heights, he is also suggesting that would also render any territory in the world subject to conquest and annexation. There would be no legal basis to insist that Russia must return Crimea to Ukraine.

Completely in contrast to what was stated here by Pompeo 9 months ago.....
Click to expand...

It's a disgustingly brazen act by Trump to signify his placidness when dealing with bad actors.

It's also a bone thrown to his evangelical supporters, who rely on Israel's existence to justify their faith.
 
Obscurity said:
I don't care what justification Israel uses to defend the illegal seizure of sovereign territory.

Israel attacked first, not Syria. Shutting the straits was a bad act but it could have been solved through diplomacy instead of warfare.

You will not be allowed to rewrite history here. Israel attacked with its airforce first. Israel broke the Geneva convention and thus illegally seized that territory, and I don't give a **** what you Netanyahuphiles want to say about it.
Click to expand...

Then you admit that you do not care about discussing the morality of the subject but just declare a backwards agenda which you support.

Israel attacked aggressors trying to destroy it. That's legitimate. Your justification of aggressors trying to annihilate a country cannot be seen as reasonable.

It seems like you cannot end a single reply without throwing an hateful personal attack. Netanyahuphiles is funny. Though the policy to maintain hold of the Golan is not one unique to Netanyahu and no reasonable Israeli leader will just depart from it granting the Syrian and Iranian aggressors the opportunity to take advantage of that and commit more atrocities.
 
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Apocalypse said:
Then you admit that you do not care about discussing the morality of the subject but just declare a backwards agenda which you support.
Click to expand...

There is nothing moral about attacking a nation and seizing territory from it, expelling indigenous people from ancestral lands, bulldozing them and building settlements, which is illegal, unethical, and amoral.

Apocalypse said:
Israel attacked aggressors trying to destroy it. That's legitimate. Your justification of aggressors trying to annihilate a country cannot be seen as reasonable.
Click to expand...

Israel attacked first without using diplomacy.

Apocalypse said:
It seems like you cannot end a single reply without throwing an hateful personal attack. Netanyahuphiles is funny. Though the policy to maintain hold of the Golan is not one unique to Netanyahu and no reasonable Israeli leader will just depart from it granting the Syrian and Iranian aggressors the opportunity to take advantage of that and commit more atrocities.
Click to expand...

Stop supporting a criminal like Bibi, and you won't see it as a personal attack. Holding the Golan is illegal. It is amoral. Israel launched an attack on its neighbors instead of using a peaceful diplomatic approach. They ought to have done so and then appealed to the un and us to support ending the closure of the straits and all of this would have been avoided.

Instead, they chose to act illicitly, illegally, and take what they are not entitled to.

Do you seriously think DJT gives one **** about Israel? It's all about getting his golfing buddy re-elected, and ensuring his base in the states is ramped up because of their Armageddon-nihilist-death cult-fantasy.
 
Apocalypse said:
Your history revisionism makes you irrelevant.
The widely accepted truth is that Israel was defending itself, you cannot change that.

The territory was used by the Syrian aggressors to attack Israeli towns at Northern Israel.
Today the situation there is even worse with Syria's cooperation with Iranian terrorists for the purpose of harming Israel.
To simply give the territory away when it was taken in a war of survival for Israel against a nation trying to annihilate it completely, is not a sane thing to do and is not a moral thing to do.
It's been Israeli far longer than it's been Syrian now too.

There was however an intention to give the territory back in exchange for a peace deal at the beginning as was done with Egypt, but since that was constantly refused, last time in Ehud Olmert's time as Israeli PM, that's never going to happen.
The US recognition is a good step forward recognizing the Israeli life in the Golan. It shows things are moving in the moral direction, in spite of those calling for Israel's annihilation.
Hopefully more countries will follow soon just as was the case with Jerusalem.
Click to expand...

The Hasbara surrounding the 1967 attack by Israel on its neighbours has been unravelling steadily for years and is supported by some of the Israeli government/military staffers that actually oversaw it. I've shown as much here recently and throughout my time here.

Just like the Hasbara surrounding the 1948 conflict has not stood the test of time or scrutiny of serious inquiry

The fig leaves fall in the Autumn winds of time and study and there's little you can do to stop them
 
Obscurity said:
There is nothing moral about attacking a nation and seizing territory from it, expelling indigenous people from ancestral lands, bulldozing them and building settlements, which is illegal, unethical, and amoral.
Click to expand...

Indeed there's nothing moral in that, then why do you support it?
Why do you subscribe to such immorality?
You reason the Arab acts of aggression against the Jewish state. You claim that the Jewish state acting against it is an aggressor itself trying to rewrite known history.
And this is why your immorality is opposed.

Israel attacked first without using diplomacy.
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Diplomacy? Israel was attacked. The blockading of the Straits of Tiran is an act of war. Your excuses for aggression and warmongering are quite pathetic.

Stop supporting a criminal like Bibi, and you won't see it as a personal attack. Holding the Golan is illegal. It is amoral. Israel launched an attack on its neighbors instead of using a peaceful diplomatic approach. They ought to have done so and then appealed to the un and us to support ending the closure of the straits and all of this would have been avoided.
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It's a personal attack regardless of what I support or don't support - which you have no idea of.
These hateful personal attacks that you feel obliged to throw in the end of every other reply are demonstrating your understanding that you're at the wrong end of morality here.

Do you seriously think DJT gives one **** about Israel? It's all about getting his golfing buddy re-elected, and ensuring his base in the states is ramped up because of their Armageddon-nihilist-death cult-fantasy.
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I discuss the actions not the person. I don't think Obama was anti-Israeli at all in his beliefs but evidently he took acts that caused potential harm to the state of Israel and its citizens, so how did that matter?
The recognition of Jerusalem and now of the Golan Heights are on the other hand turning things in the moral direction.
 
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oneworld2 said:
The Hasbara surrounding the 1967 attack by Israel on its neighbours has been unravelling steadily for years and is supported by some of the Israeli government/military staffers that actually oversaw it. I've shown as much here recently and throughout my time here.

Just like the Hasbara surrounding the 1948 conflict has not stood the test of time or scrutiny of serious inquiry

The fig leaves fall in the Autumn winds of time and study and there's little you can do to stop them
Click to expand...

Call it what you want, after all it is only during the 21st century that anti-Israeli and anti-Semitic individuals have gained a small momentum in what is considered the history revisionist movement.

History itself still maintains and always will that the preemptive attack on Egypt was done in a defensive manner. That Egypt initiated conflict through an act of aggression.
You cannot change that and you're fully aware of that. You've been arguing for history denial for 5 years now and it still hasn't changed.
 
Apocalypse said:
Your history revisionism makes you irrelevant.
The widely accepted truth is that Israel was defending itself, you cannot change that.

The territory was used by the Syrian aggressors to attack Israeli towns at Northern Israel.
Today the situation there is even worse with Syria's cooperation with Iranian terrorists for the purpose of harming Israel.
To simply give the territory away when it was taken in a war of survival for Israel against a nation trying to annihilate it completely, is not a sane thing to do and is not a moral thing to do.
It's been Israeli far longer than it's been Syrian now too.

There was however an intention to give the territory back in exchange for a peace deal at the beginning as was done with Egypt, but since that was constantly refused, last time in Ehud Olmert's time as Israeli PM, that's never going to happen.
The US recognition is a good step forward recognizing the Israeli life in the Golan. It shows things are moving in the moral direction, in spite of those calling for Israel's annihilation.
Hopefully more countries will follow soon just as was the case with Jerusalem.
Click to expand...

Revisionist history? Do you guys like to leave out White europeans just decided to take land and create a country, the most holiest of lands for 3 different religions. Or how they throw the Palestinians (like we did Indians) into modern day "reservations" and not even allow them to be recognized as a country? or how israel murders foreign scientists, and have slaughtered Palestinians with indiscriminate bombing on multiple occasions?

**** Israel, they are just as much assholes and culpable. What other recourse do Palestinians have when they are poor, thrown into modern day reservations, and treated like **** by Israelis? That white people come in and claim "this is our land". Both sides in this has issue, but all the right wing idiots do as usual is play the victim.
 
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