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[W:56W:439]U.N. report on Gaza says Israeli forces may have committed war crimes

Obscurity said:
Talking to you is literally like talking to a wall.

Did Israel, or did Israel not, sieze land and build settlements on it?

Did Israel, or did Israel not, knowingly attack targets in mass civilian areas knowing collateral damage was a huge risk?
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I don't really care for what you believe talking to me feels like, I don't find your ideas of me relevant to anything. If I didn't make it clear enough you should avoid all these personal attacks because they're completely pointless, you should be aware that I'm able to destroy your ridiculous assertions and expose them as illogical with or without you throwing these in every other reply.

Israel did not target civilians. It targets terrorists. The laws of war are all upheld in Israel's defensive efforts against the Hamas terrorists, as no one makes more efforts than the IDF to avoid civilian casualties.
So you have the option to promote propaganda nonsense, empty accusations and lies as you've done so far or simply face that reality.
 
oneworld2 said:
Bus 405 was not a " boming " ( sic ) incident. You really should do the research before you spout nonsense imo

Seems like you have learned nothing since that foaming and erroneous rant about arms finds circa Gaza 2004 and who was behind them



Was the first car suicide bombing IIRC and the car was exploded between a bus full of troops and a civilian bus. If you contend that the King David Hotel attack was a legitimate attack against a military target , which you do , then you are compelled, by your own logic, to view the Mehola Junction bombing in the same light. My guess , and it is an educated one based on this post alone , is that you have no idea what you are talking about and your citing of this incident is based on a lack of knowledge about it IE that you didn't know about the bus full of IDF troops parked next to the car when it was exploded.

Inaccuracy is a real feature of your commentary here
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I stand corrected on the 405 bus. A Palestinian Intentionally killed a bunch of civilians by during the bus off a cliff.

Much better.

As to the King David Hotel....

Did the Jews do everything possible to prevent civilian deaths at the Hotel?

Yes.

In the car bombing...

Did the Palestinians do ANYTHING to prevent civilian deaths?

No.

So, we see the difference between the two....
 
Apocalypse said:
You're making yourself completely irrelevant when you openly base your words on lies and claim they are true because you said so.
It's ridiculous. And spare me the personal attacks, they merely tell me that you realize you're saying things that are completely stupid.
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What personal attacks?

You're literally denying reality.
 
Apocalypse said:
I don't really care for what you believe talking to me feels like, I don't find your ideas of me relevant to anything. If I didn't make it clear enough you should avoid all these personal attacks because they're completely pointless, you should be aware that I'm able to destroy your ridiculous assertions and expose them as illogical with or without you throwing these in every other reply.

Israel did not target civilians. It targets terrorists. The laws of war are all upheld in Israel's defensive efforts against the Hamas terrorists, as no one makes more efforts than the IDF to avoid civilian casualties.
So you have the option to promote propaganda nonsense, empty accusations and lies as you've done so far or simply face that reality.
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You literally ignore countless instances of documented, proven illegal actions by Israel.

You're a lost cause.
 
Fledermaus said:
I stand corrected on the 405 bus. A Palestinian Intentionally killed a bunch of civilians by during the bus off a cliff.

Much better.
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Just more accurate . There's enough BS being passed off as informed opinion here already imo. Hence.......


As to the King David Hotel....

Did the Jews do everything possible to prevent civilian deaths at the Hotel?

Yes.

In the car bombing...

Did the Palestinians do ANYTHING to prevent civilian deaths?

No.
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You have shifted the goal posts from whether the targets were military targets to whether warnings were given

You say the King David Hotel , being a military office , was a legitimate target yet want to cast the targeting of a bus full of IDF soldiers as terrorism in a blatant double standard and now you are moving the goal posts in a bid to deflect from that.

Why ?
 
oneworld2 said:
Just more accurate . There's enough BS being passed off as informed opinion here already imo. Hence.......




You have shifted the goal posts from whether the targets were military targets to whether warnings were given

You say the King David Hotel , being a military office , was a legitimate target yet want to cast the targeting of a bus full of IDF soldiers as terrorism in a blatant double standard and now you are moving the goal posts in a bid to deflect from that.

Why ?
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Which of the 16 civilians on bus 405 were "Military targets"?

That is who was on the bus.
 
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Fledermaus said:
Which of the 16 civilians on bus 405 were "Military targets"?

That is who was on the bus.
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Goal post shift number two.

The question was regarding the Mehola Junction attack and you know it was. So I will ask it again and you now have no excuse to shift the goal posts

You say the King David Hotel , being a military office , was a legitimate target yet want to cast the targeting of a bus full of IDF soldiers as terrorism in a blatant double standard and now you are moving the goal posts in a bid to deflect from that.

Why ?
 
oneworld2 said:
Goal post shift number two.

The question was regarding the Mehola Junction attack and you know it was. So I will ask it again and you now have no excuse to shift the goal posts

You say the King David Hotel , being a military office , was a legitimate target yet want to cast the targeting of a bus full of IDF soldiers as terrorism in a blatant double standard and now you are moving the goal posts in a bid to deflect from that.

Why ?
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Don't hold your breath waiting for anything resembling an answer. This is classic Hasbara behaviour. Rule 1. Never admit anything. Rule 2. Don't answer a direct question. Rule 4. Deflect and answer a question with a question. Rule 3. Accuse everyone of anti-Semitism. In other words a complete waste of energy attempting to reason with.
 
Apocalypse said:
I don't really care for what you believe talking to me feels like, I don't find your ideas of me relevant to anything. If I didn't make it clear enough you should avoid all these personal attacks because they're completely pointless, you should be aware that I'm able to destroy your ridiculous assertions and expose them as illogical with or without you throwing these in every other reply.

Israel did not target civilians. It targets terrorists. The laws of war are all upheld in Israel's defensive efforts against the Hamas terrorists, as no one makes more efforts than the IDF to avoid civilian casualties.
So you have the option to promote propaganda nonsense, empty accusations and lies as you've done so far or simply face that reality.
Click to expand...
the videos within this thread show us your post is inaccurate
the IDF snipers shot Palestinians who were not a threat to israel or israelis

you want us to believe that because IDF shot a Palestinian that Palestinian must have been a terrorist. the facts - watch for yourself - are in direct opposition to your hollow words
 
justabubba said:
the videos within this thread show us your post is inaccurate
the IDF snipers shot Palestinians who were not a threat to israel or israelis

you want us to believe that because IDF shot a Palestinian that Palestinian must have been a terrorist. the facts - watch for yourself - are in direct opposition to your hollow words
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You want us to believe the IDF ordered the killing of an innocent man because we see an edited video showing a stone thrower getting shot in the leg.
First they need to investigate if this wasn't a legit shot. If it wasn't a legit shot they need to investigate if this had criminal nature.
Regardless the video isn't changing the IDF rules of engagement which we know is not targeting civilians.
We know the IDF is doing more than anyone else to avoid harming civilians too. With all that in mind, your words are propaganda nonsense.
 
Apocalypse said:
You want us to believe the IDF ordered the killing of an innocent man because we see an edited video showing a stone thrower getting shot in the leg.
First they need to investigate if this wasn't a legit shot. If it wasn't a legit shot they need to investigate if this had criminal nature.
Regardless the video isn't changing the IDF rules of engagement which we know is not targeting civilians.
We know the IDF is doing more than anyone else to avoid harming civilians too. With all that in mind, your words are propaganda nonsense.
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You need to read this: The High Court has just legitimized the shooting of Palestinian civilians - Opinion - Israel News | Haaretz.com
 
Apocalypse said:
I don't waste time with opinion articles.
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The opinion is supported with factual links within the piece. You aren't interested in facts so that comes as no surprise, frankly. We also hear your opinions daily; should we waste our time with you? Think about that for a moment.
 
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Apocalypse said:
You want us to believe the IDF ordered the killing of an innocent man because we see an edited video showing a stone thrower getting shot in the leg.
First they need to investigate if this wasn't a legit shot. If it wasn't a legit shot they need to investigate if this had criminal nature.
Regardless the video isn't changing the IDF rules of engagement which we know is not targeting civilians.
We know the IDF is doing more than anyone else to avoid harming civilians too. With all that in mind, your words are propaganda nonsense.
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you insist the rules of engagement for the IDF will prevent the shooting of civilians
but then we watch the videos and find that is not the case
the actual rules of engagement are obviously other than what has been presented to the public
it is clear that the IDF snipers are shooting civilians
that is a war crime
and the war crimes committed by israel is what the UN is now going on the record to present for the world to see
 
justabubba said:
you insist the rules of engagement for the IDF will prevent the shooting of civilians
but then we watch the videos and find that is not the case
the actual rules of engagement are obviously other than what has been presented to the public
it is clear that the IDF snipers are shooting civilians
that is a war crime
and the war crimes committed by israel is what the UN is now going on the record to present for the world to see
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We see a stone thrower getting shot in the leg. That's the only thing you can learn from the video. Neither why nor how.
The IDF avoids civilian casualties and thus cannot be accused with war crimes.
Your so-called conclusion from the video is because you're biased, you've claimed in the past that rocket fire against Israeli civilians is a good thing and you constantly voice your support for war crimes.
Your opinion is taken with this knowledge in mind, thus irrelevant, just like the UN which is led by an antisemitic agenda.
 
Apocalypse said:
We see a stone thrower getting shot in the leg. That's the only thing you can learn from the video. Neither why nor how.
The IDF avoids civilian casualties and thus cannot be accused with war crimes.
Your so-called conclusion from the video is because you're biased, you've claimed in the past that rocket fire against Israeli civilians is a good thing and you constantly voice your support for war crimes.
Your opinion is taken with this knowledge in mind, thus irrelevant, just like the UN which is led by an antisemitic agenda.
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Apocalypse:

Hogwash.

The State of Israel and the IDF do not always try to minimise civilian casualties as has been demonstrated time and again in this and other threads on related topics. The State of Israel has been accused of alleged war crimes by many organisations and some states including the report about which this very thread is about. You are therefore demonstrably wrong on both of your assertions above. Your wilfull blindness to such things is indicative of a new problem which may become as pernicious and harmful as anti-Semitism is and has been. That is blind and unquestioning pro-Israeli militarism. In my opinion such a blinkered lack of perception coupled with unquestioned support for a state's policy, no matter how damaging and inhumane it is according to readily available evidence, is as twisted and evil as violent anti-Semitism is.



Deal with it!

Evilroddy.
 
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Evilroddy said:
The State of Israel and the IDF do not always try to minimise civilian casualties
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Propaganda nonsense. No military in the history of mankind has done more to avoid civilian casualties than the IDF.
Israel warns civilians by calling to their homes before incoming strikes in their area although it is aware that the terrorists are being alert as well. It has the knock on the roof procedure which is meant to alert civilians of incoming attack, although it's aware that terrorists are being alert as well. And this is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the Israeli efforts to minimize civilian casualties when fighting against a terror regime that seeks to increase its own.

Source:

Israel Warns Gaza Targets by Phone and Leaflet - The New York Times

Your inability to accept reality is no concern of mine.
 
Apocalypse said:
Propaganda nonsense. No military in the history of mankind has done more to avoid civilian casualties than the IDF.
Israel warns civilians by calling to their homes before incoming strikes in their area although it is aware that the terrorists are being alert as well. It has the knock on the roof procedure which is meant to alert civilians of incoming attack, although it's aware that terrorists are being alert as well. And this is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the Israeli efforts to minimize civilian casualties when fighting against a terror regime that seeks to increase its own.

Source:

Israel Warns Gaza Targets by Phone and Leaflet - The New York Times

Your inability to accept reality is no concern of mine.
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what we actually see is israeli IDF snipers shooting civilians protesting within their own borders
hence, the UN HRC report of israeli war crimes against the Palestinian population
 
snakestretcher said:
Don't hold your breath waiting for anything resembling an answer. This is classic Hasbara behaviour. Rule 1. Never admit anything. Rule 2. Don't answer a direct question. Rule 4. Deflect and answer a question with a question. Rule 3. Accuse everyone of anti-Semitism. In other words a complete waste of energy attempting to reason with.
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Would you believe me if I told you it is against the rules of this subforum to call someone an antisemite ? I know , I know............... bizarre but true

I don't really expect anything but what you outlined ,snakestretcher , but it comes with the territory here lol
 
justabubba said:
what we actually see is israeli IDF snipers shooting civilians protesting within their own borders
hence, the UN HRC report of israeli war crimes against the Palestinian population
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So you're admitting that you do not require knowledge of what actually happened so to dictate that an imaginary war crime took place.
Thankfully it's not up to war-crime supporters such as you or to the antisemitic UNHRC to decide.
 
oneworld2 said:
Goal post shift number two.

The question was regarding the Mehola Junction attack and you know it was. So I will ask it again and you now have no excuse to shift the goal posts

You say the King David Hotel , being a military office , was a legitimate target yet want to cast the targeting of a bus full of IDF soldiers as terrorism in a blatant double standard and now you are moving the goal posts in a bid to deflect from that.

Why ?
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Bus 405 was not a bus full of IDF soldiers....

Which of the 16 civilians on bus 405 were "Military targets"?

That is who was on the bus.

The Tel Aviv–Jerusalem bus 405 attack was a suicide attack on 6 July 1989 carried out by Abd al-Hadi Ghanim of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.[1] On a crowded Egged commuter bus line No. 405 en route from Tel-Aviv to Jerusalem (Israel), Ghanim seized the steering wheel of the bus, running it off a steep cliff into a ravine in the area of Qiryat Ye'arim.[1] 16 civilians died in the attack—including two Canadians and one American, and 27 were wounded.[2]

The incident is described as the first Palestinian suicide attack despite the fact that the attacker survived
 
snakestretcher said:
Don't hold your breath waiting for anything resembling an answer. This is classic Hasbara behaviour. Rule 1. Never admit anything. Rule 2. Don't answer a direct question. Rule 4. Deflect and answer a question with a question. Rule 3. Accuse everyone of anti-Semitism. In other words a complete waste of energy attempting to reason with.
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There were no IDF soldiers on Bus 405.

Afula Bus suicide bombing April 6, 1994 Afula 8 Hamas claimed responsibility. Carried out together with Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
Hadera bus station suicide bombing April 13, 1994 Hadera 5 Hamas claimed responsibility. Carried out together with Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
Dizengoff Street bus bombing October 19, 1994 Tel Aviv 22 Attributed to Hamas.
 
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Fledermaus said:
Bus 405 was not a bus full of IDF soldiers....

Which of the 16 civilians on bus 405 were "Military targets"?

That is who was on the bus.
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Oh please , sticking to the goal post shift is really really poor form.

Don't try to lecture me on these events , recall it was ME that informed YOU that the bus 405 incident wasn't even a bombing !! :roll:

The debate is about the Mehola bombing. You know this because I have referred you to it twice now. But , instead of having the honesty to just reply to the question we see this , shameless , diversion tactic being deployed time and time again.

The Mehola bombing and the King David bombing ..........

You say the King David Hotel , being a military office , was a legitimate target yet want to cast the targeting of a bus full of IDF soldiers as terrorism in a blatant double standard and now you are moving the goal posts in a bid to deflect from that.

Why ?
 
Fledermaus said:
There were no IDF soldiers on Bus 405.
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Goal post shift , shamelessly being used to avoid the real question which is about the Mehola Junction bombing and your double standards about it
 
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