More Tunnels.... More waste.

oneworld2 said:

Okay , no problem , we can agree on you expressing bigoted perspectives and framing things in a bigoted way if you prefer. I am happy to do that for you in fact because it is more accurate

Click to expand...

Ah, more accusations...

A oneworld specialty.

Fledermaus said:

The entire thread is about wasting of resources by Hamas...

Your attempt to divert is as apparent as it is pathetic.

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The tunnels do provide the Palestinians of Gaza with a certain amount of defensive capacity and as such it is wrong to say that they are a complete waste.

Israeli analysists themselves admit that there are offensive tunnels and defensive tunnels within the Gaza tunnel network. That makes them actually less biased ( bigoted ? ) about this then you are

Fledermaus said:

Ah, more accusations...

A oneworld specialty.

Click to expand...

I still see you avoiding everything I have cited/referred to in numerous posts now whilst , lamely , claiming they don't exist

They are hanging there like moles on the barbed wire and your insistence not to comment on them is extremely telling

oneworld2 said:

I still see you avoiding everything I have cited/referred to in numerous posts now whilst , lamely , claiming they don't exist

They are hanging there like moles on the barbed wire and your insistence not to comment on them is extremely telling

Click to expand...

The photo of the child in suicide bomber garb you continue to cry about...

Why do you think it is so easy to find examples of that?

Perhaps because suicide bombers are glorified by many Palestinians. You cannot deny plenty of Palestinians cheer for their suicide bombers... Right?

Now, is pointing out the Palestinians that glorify suicide bombers and dress their child as bombers "racist" or "bigoted"?

Those are demonstrably factual.

Fledermaus said:

The photo of the child in suicide bomber garb you continue to cry about...

Why do you think it is so easy to find examples of that?

Click to expand...

Well , let's first of all ask ourselves a few related questions and make a statement about the use of or influencing of children to engage in combat activities. The statement is , from my view , it is abhorrent and should be condemned regardless of who does it. Just to pre-empt and ward off the likelihood that anything else I say could possibly be deliberately misinterpreted as being supportive. Sad that I have to say that but that's what many posters here do all of the time .

That picture you uploaded , do you know how many children of that age group have attempted or carried out suicide bombings ? AFAIK none. So the image it portrays is false and , to the ignorant , might suggest that the killing of children of that age group is acceptable because they are involved in suicide bombings. Recall that racist Justice Ministers ( Ayelet Shaked ) comments ? Your action of uploading that image is just another promotion of that narrative imo and they should all be called out for the misleading bigotry they seek to develop.

For sure there have been attempts and operations carried out by teenage suicide bombers , and that is to be condemned and denounced , but let's at least try and keep the commentary based on the facts

As yo your question about why are these images so readily available , the obvious answer is that there is a PR war going on along side the actual conflict. Thus images that serve to demonize one or the other sides are easily accessible.

In fact I could have uploaded, but refused to , many images of extremist Israeli Jews pictured training their children in the field of combat/weapons use . The reason I refused was because I would have then been guilty of the same attempts to demonize the group by focusing attention on the actions of the few extremists. Extremist whose actions/acts of violence and terror have ,likewise , supporters in the broader group but are not to be used to castigate the entire group , or even the majority of the group.

We see this type of tactic being employed all the time by bigots/racists and that's what I said when both you and that other poster decided to upload a whole host of such images.

You have seen anti black people post stuff about a black serial killer for example in order to try to smear the group , only to be faced with people posting stuff about how many serial killers are also white or hispanic/latino. It's the domain of the bigoted to focus on the most extreme cases of a certain group , ignoring all other information/contexts , in order to use their actions to defame the group. That's what you engage in too and that's why I will call you ( and any others ) out that wish to promote these types of bigoted smear campaigns

Perhaps because suicide bombers are glorified by many Palestinians. You cannot deny plenty of Palestinians cheer for their suicide bombers... Right?

Now, is pointing out the Palestinians that glorify suicide bombers and dress their child as bombers "racist" or "bigoted"?

Those are demonstrably factual.

Click to expand...

I have held the same view consistently for years about this conflict IE it has and continues to have a detrimental effect on the people of BOTH sides as is highlighted by the support we see for grotesque actions carried out by people on both sides. Whether that be for suicide bombings carried out by Palestinians against innocent Israeli civilians or hitech military attacks against virtually defenceless people that result in the deaths of innocent Palestinians

You cannot say the same

You cited a vile act of murder against the Fogel family but never commented that the majority of Palestinians were against and horrified by those actions themselves. That they saw them as illegal horrific acts that could in no way be excused by the ongoing conflict between the two parties

You focused on the suicide bombings and , initially , tried to make out that they were all attacks against civilian targets. Clearly disregarding the fact that some of them were targeting occupying soldiers. Also failing to consider or comment on the fact that in the Second Intifada the Palestinians had suffered enormous casualties as a result of live rounds fired into crowds of demonstrators for the first 5 months BEFORE they ,or some of them , resorted to suicide bombings

It's that highly provocative and highly selective analysis ( cherry picking of facts, omission of information etc ) that points to those that wish to try to demonize and smear only one side ,when it is evident to anyone with just a little bit of objectivity that both sides are not free of guilt or the committing of horrific acts of violence against the other , crimes , terrorism etc etc

And every time you post you do the same type of bigoted analysis , hence my comments on it

oneworld2 said:

Well , let's first of all ask ourselves a few related questions and make a statement about the use of or influencing of children to engage in combat activities. The statement is , from my view , it is abhorrent and should be condemned regardless of who does it. Just to pre-empt and ward off the likelihood that anything else I say could possibly be deliberately misinterpreted as being supportive. Sad that I have to say that but that's what many posters here do all of the time .

That picture you uploaded , do you know how many children of that age group have attempted or carried out suicide bombings ? AFAIK none. So the image it portrays is false and , to the ignorant , might suggest that the killing of children of that age group is acceptable because they are involved in suicide bombings. Recall that racist Justice Ministers ( Ayelet Shaked ) comments ? Your action of uploading that image is just another promotion of that narrative imo and they should all be called out for the misleading bigotry they seek to develop.

For sure there have been attempts and operations carried out by teenage suicide bombers , and that is to be condemned and denounced , but let's at least try and keep the commentary based on the facts

As yo your question about why are these images so readily available , the obvious answer is that there is a PR war going on along side the actual conflict. Thus images that serve to demonize one or the other sides are easily accessible.

In fact I could have uploaded, but refused to , many images of extremist Israeli Jews pictured training their children in the field of combat/weapons use . The reason I refused was because I would have then been guilty of the same attempts to demonize the group by focusing attention on the actions of the few extremists. Extremist whose actions/acts of violence and terror have ,likewise , supporters in the broader group but are not to be used to castigate the entire group , or even the majority of the group.

We see this type of tactic being employed all the time by bigots/racists and that's what I said when both you and that other poster decided to upload a whole host of such images.

You have seen anti black people post stuff about a black serial killer for example in order to try to smear the group , only to be faced with people posting stuff about how many serial killers are also white or hispanic/latino. It's the domain of the bigoted to focus on the most extreme cases of a certain group , ignoring all other information/contexts , in order to use their actions to defame the group. That's what you engage in too and that's why I will call you ( and any others ) out that wish to promote these types of bigoted smear campaigns



I have held the same view consistently for years about this conflict IE it has and continues to have a detrimental effect on the people of BOTH sides as is highlighted by the support we see for grotesque actions carried out by people on both sides. Whether that be for suicide bombings carried out by Palestinians against innocent Israeli civilians or hitech military attacks against virtually defenceless people that result in the deaths of innocent Palestinians

You cannot say the same

You cited a vile act of murder against the Fogel family but never commented that the majority of Palestinians were against and horrified by those actions themselves. That they saw them as illegal horrific acts that could in no way be excused by the ongoing conflict between the two parties

<Snipped BS>

Click to expand...

Oh, the Red Herrings, Strawmen, accusations of racism and general lying about my posts, their intent and content.

As to the picture...

Did I state small children were being used for suicide bombing?

No.

I asked why the photos were so easy to find.

You completely ignored what I stated about the reason. You refused to discuss WHY Palestinians dressed THEIR children in suicide bomber garb and then blamed Israeli PR for their presence.

Then you try to equte children emulating the IDF with children emulating terrorist suicide bombers....

Sick and sad.

Fledermaus said:

Oh, the Red Herrings, Strawmen, accusations of racism and general lying about my posts, their intent and content.

As to the picture...

Did I state small children were being used for suicide bombing?

No.

I asked why the photos were so easy to find.

You completely ignored what I stated about the reason. You refused to discuss WHY Palestinians dressed THEIR children in suicide bomber garb and then blamed Israeli PR for their presence.

Then you try to equte children emulating the IDF with children emulating terrorist suicide bombers....

Sick and sad.

Click to expand...

What red herrings ?

What straw men ?

What Lies ?

All's you have done is to avoid practically everything in that post precisely because you know you cannot defend it and decide to try to fool the reader it is somehow made up of the above

I stated , accurately , that even Israeli analysts are prepared to admit that some of the tunnels of Gaza are and were built for defensive purposes. You cannot even admit that much

You claim that every act they commit is terrorism

That actions where they have attacked soldiers is because they were actually thwarted from attacking civilians without anything credible to validate it. As if they are mindless , immoral automatons that can only carry out terrorist acts.

You choose to focus , every time , on the extreme actions of the few , ignoring/avoiding any and all information that undermines your preferred narrative , in a bid to try to smear the entire group


That all the kids involved in stone throwing against the military of the occupying power, that is denying them and their parents their almost every human right, are terrorists that are fair game to be shot dead. Wow , did the mask slip on that one.

All the above are clear examples of someone who wishes to promote bigoted views and perspectives in order to dehumanize the entire group and delegitimize their struggle for self determination

As I stated earlier , and it is guaranteed , you will provide many many more examples of the bigoted approach and , be sure , every time I will deconstruct them and show how and why these perspectives are created from a bigoted approach to the conflict. What information is being left out or hidden and force people to look at the same application to both sides.

So you can cry all you want , lie as much as you need to but you will be laid bare

oneworld2 said:

What red herrings ?

What straw men ?

What Lies ?

All's you have done is to avoid practically everything in that post precisely because you know you cannot defend it and decide to try to fool the reader it is somehow made up of the above

I stated , accurately , that even Israeli analysts are prepared to admit that some of the tunnels of Gaza are and were built for defensive purposes. You cannot even admit that much

You claim that every act they commit is terrorism

That actions where they have attacked soldiers is because they were actually thwarted from attacking civilians without anything credible to validate it. As if they are mindless , immoral automatons that can only carry out terrorist acts.

You choose to focus , every time , on the extreme actions of the few , ignoring/avoiding any and all information that undermines your preferred narrative , in a bid to try to smear the entire group


That all the kids involved in stone throwing against the military of the occupying power, that is denying them and their parents their almost every human right, are terrorists that are fair game to be shot dead. Wow , did the mask slip on that one.

All the above are clear examples of someone who wishes to promote bigoted views and perspectives in order to dehumanize the entire group and delegitimize their struggle for self determination

As I stated earlier , and it is guaranteed , you will provide many many more examples of the bigoted approach and , be sure , every time I will deconstruct them and show how and why these perspectives are created from a bigoted approach to the conflict. What information is being left out or hidden and force people to look at the same application to both sides.

So you can cry all you want , lie as much as you need to but you will be laid bare

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Make a new thread where you can cry more about terrorist fans dressing their kids up in terrorist suicide bomber garb.

You aren't diverting from this thread any more.

This thread is about the incredible waste caused by Hamas and the impact on housing and infrastructure.

Fledermaus said:

Make a new thread where you can cry more about terrorist fans dressing their kids up in terrorist suicide bomber garb.

You aren't diverting from this thread any more.

This thread is about the incredible waste caused by Hamas and the impact on housing and infrastructure.

Click to expand...

Asked to support your claims that red herrings , straw men and lies have been used against you what happens ? You refuse to supply anything and seek to drop the subject altogether. How telling . How predictable that when someone takes the time to list some of the more obviously bigoted statements and perspectives you offer up , you decide not to comment any further on them or those regarding your own , baseless , accusations that someone is, allegedly, misrepresenting you on :roll:

oneworld2 said:

Asked to support your claims that red herrings , straw men and lies have been used against you what happens ? You refuse to supply anything and seek to drop the subject altogether. How telling . How predictable that when someone takes the time to list some of the more obviously bigoted statements and perspectives you offer up , you decide not to comment any further on them or those regarding your own , baseless , accusations that someone is, allegedly, misrepresenting you on :roll:

Click to expand...

Off topic.

Start a new thread.

This one is about the incredible waste of construction materials to create tunnels that the IDF wl simply implode.

Three years have passed since the conclusion of the latest military assault on the Gaza Strip. Most of the Palestinian enclave still lies in ruins. Many Gazans continue to lack permanent housing, living in shelters and other forms of temporary accommodation. An absence of basic infrastructure—electricity, clean water, sewage treatment, and waste management—has blighted the daily lives of Gaza’s 1.9 million citizens.1 While the reconstruction process trudges along, a lack of employment opportunities has left 42 percent of the total labor force unemployed, rising to 60 percent among Gaza’s youth.2 Gaza can barely sustain the lives of its current inhabitants. With an annual population growth of 2.4 percent, the situation in the Palestinian enclave is becoming increasingly grim as humanitarian and reconstruction efforts fail to expand
Still in ruins: Reviving the stalled reconstruction of Gaza

Well guess where much of the needed material goes....

Interesting how the usual suspects are mute as to the incredible waste....