Mowing the Lawn in Gaza

oneworld2 said:

You did no such thing

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Another lie. I referred you to a webpage discussing what are indiscrimnate weapons.
Notice that indiscriminate weapons is a term referring to weapons, not to the way they are used.

I showed the evidence for the charge of indiscriminate attacks by the IDF in Gaza and gave numerous sources to back it

You never even mentioned the tens of thousands of artillery shells fired from tanks or frigates at distance into densely populated areas and chose only to question the use of WP

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Again, indiscriminate weapons were not used. Firing indiscriminately is also not something the IDF does when it targets terrorists. You cannot "fire indiscriminately" while targeting terrorists, it goes against the term's meaning and is just stupid. You could argue that the IDF isn't doing enough to minimize civilian casualties, but you'd just be wrong on that as well as no military in human history did, does and will do more.

There was no military area. There are civilian areas with tons of civilians trapped inside them and to use indiscriminate weapons to attack them are war crimes. Why do you think they stopped using it in the last slaughter of Palestinians in a similar attack in 2014 ?

You are choosing to defend war crimes and support the deaths and maiming of innocent Palestinians and it's disgustingly immoral imo

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What war crime have I defended? I'm calling for the killing of terrorists and their supporters, not civilians. Never did. The main reason I oppose you is because you're promoting the murder of innocents after all.
A military area is defined as one that is used for military purposes, it doesn't take a genius to know that or to know that when the government controlling that territory is making use of it for military purposes it defines it as a military area. Your lies are awfully easy to obliterate.

Apocalypse said:

Another lie. I referred you to a webpage discussing what are indiscrimnate weapons.
Notice that indiscriminate weapons is a term referring to weapons, not to the way they are used.



Again, indiscriminate weapons were not used. Firing indiscriminately is also not something the IDF does when it targets terrorists. You cannot "fire indiscriminately" while targeting terrorists, it goes against the term's meaning and is just stupid. You could argue that the IDF isn't doing enough to minimize civilian casualties, but you'd just be wrong on that as well as no military in human history did, does and will do more.



What war crime have I defended? I'm calling for the killing of terrorists and their supporters, not civilians. Never did. The main reason I oppose you is because you're promoting the murder of innocents after all.
A military area is defined as one that is used for military purposes, it doesn't take a genius to know that or to know that when the government controlling that territory is making use of it for military purposes it defines it as a military area. Your lies are awfully easy to obliterate.

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The IDF by attacking densely populated areas with WP, which explodes in the air and spreads over a large area , firing shells from frigates and tanks into densely populated areas , which from a distance cannot be anything other than indiscriminate in nature , is undoubtedly guilty of engaging in indiscriminate attacks against the Palestinians that have resulted in the deaths of thousands of Palestinian civilians. War crimes you continue to defend

you can read for yourself the evidence of law breaking in the post I put together in this thread to one of your own posts

https://www.debatepolitics.com/israel-palestine/335782-terror-tunnels-10.html

oneworld2 said:

I condemn the use of indiscriminate weapons no matter which side uses them. A demonstrable fact and something you evidently refuse to do

That you have put it in inverted commas for Israeli use just shows how biased your positions are because there is voluminous evidence of indiscriminate weapons being used in indiscriminate attacks on the Palestinians

I defend Hamas actions ( or any other Palestinian groups actions ) when they are legitimate acts of resistance that target the soldiers of the occupying/blockading forces and refer to the indiscriminate rocket fire/civilian terror attacks as crimes or terrorism

You can trawl through my posts to try in vain to find evidence for your fraudulent allegations

It's called being consistent and less biased

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You won't answer the questions. Fair enough.

I agree Hamas actions ( or any other Palestinian groups actions ) that are legitimate acts of resistance that target the soldiers are indeed not terrorism.

And they can be counted on one hand (slight hyperbole) while terrorist acts count in the tens of thousands.

They are however acts of war.


1. Is the use of WP banned? And have you evidence it was used improperly and/or used to target civilians?

2. Is the use of flechettes banned? And have you evidence they were used improperly and/or used to target civilians?

Fledermaus said:

I agree Hamas actions ( or any other Palestinian groups actions ) that are legitimate acts of resistance that target the soldiers are indeed not terrorism.

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So you do the next best thing with which to demonise them , you infer that they only attack IDF soldiers because they were prevented by them from attacking civilians . Correct ? :roll:

And they can be counted on one hand (slight hyperbole) while terrorist acts count in the tens of thousands.

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As already pointed out , if you only have indiscriminate weapons to use all of your attacks will be construed as terrorism

They are however acts of war.

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So are Israeli targeted killings , blockades and military occupations

1. Is the use of WP banned? And have you evidence it was used improperly and/or used to target civilians?

2. Is the use of flechettes banned? And have you evidence they were used improperly and/or used to target civilians?

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Ive already given the links describing the use of WP in densely populated areas ( read back ) which , by their very nature and the circumstances of their use ( densely populated areas ) can only tick the box for indiscriminate and thus prohibited use

The use of flechettes in densely populated areas is likewise indiscriminate and as such open to the charge of being a crime

I noticed too that you have introduced a subtle twist............... I never claimed these munitions wee used to " target civilians " I have claimed , and provided evidence to back up those claims , that their use in densely populated areas constitutes an indiscriminate attack

you might want to read this report too that is something of a list of weapons known or suspected to have been used

https://www.palestine-studies.org/sites/default/files/uploads/files/[175-191]-IsrArsenal.pdf

oneworld2 said:

So you do the next best thing with which to demonise them , you infer that they only attack IDF soldiers because they were prevented by them from attacking civilians . Correct ? :roll:

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How does one demonize a terrorist organization?

By telling the truth about them.

oneworld2 said:

As already pointed out , if you only have indiscriminate weapons to use all of your attacks will be construed as terrorism

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As already pointed out , if you only employ indiscriminate weapons in all of your attacks it will be construed as terrorism....

oneworld2 said:

So are Israeli targeted killings , blockades and military occupations

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Targeted killings of terrorists? I frankly have no issue with that. The blockade? STOP IMPORTING WEAPONS. Military occupation? Gaza is Palestinian. Yes? Who is "occupying" Gaza?

oneworld2 said:

Ive already given the links describing the use of WP in densely populated areas ( read back ) which , by their very nature and the circumstances of their use ( densely populated areas ) can only tick the box for indiscriminate and thus prohibited use

The use of flechettes in densely populated areas is likewise indiscriminate and as such open to the charge of being a crime

I noticed too that you have introduced a subtle twist............... I never claimed these munitions wee used to " target civilians " I have claimed , and provided evidence to back up those claims , that their use in densely populated areas constitutes an indiscriminate attack

you might want to read this report too that is something of a list of weapons known or suspected to have been used

https://www.palestine-studies.org/sites/default/files/uploads/files/[175-191]-IsrArsenal.pdf

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1. Is the use of WP banned? And have you evidence it was used improperly and/or used to target civilians?

2. Is the use of flechettes banned? And have you evidence they were used improperly and/or used to target civilians?

PS/ Your ignorance of flechettes is on display.

And, no. A Palestinian propaganda piece doesn't cut it.

oneworld2 said:

The IDF by attacking densely populated areas with WP, which explodes in the air and spreads over a large area , firing shells from frigates and tanks into densely populated areas , which from a distance cannot be anything other than indiscriminate in nature , is undoubtedly guilty of engaging in indiscriminate attacks against the Palestinians that have resulted in the deaths of thousands of Palestinian civilians. War crimes you continue to defend

you can read for yourself the evidence of law breaking in the post I put together in this thread to one of your own posts

https://www.debatepolitics.com/israel-palestine/335782-terror-tunnels-10.html

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The IDF isn't "attacking with WP", it uses it as a means to aid soldiers in combat.
The IDF isn't "attacking densely populated areas", it targets terror targets. The entire of Gaza is "densely populated areas" so that's a silly assertion to make, you just claim that Israelis have no right to react against terror attacks against them and you excuse that barbaric position with "The terrorists are targeting Israelis from densley populated areas, so Israelis are not allowed to attack the terrorists back as this is an attack against a densley populated area". Again a silly assertion, easy to destroy.

blarg said:

has israel offered a right to return for all refuges and their descendants along with a withdrawal to their original modern borders?

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Why the hell would they ever offer that? A better offer would be to allow limited self government to Druze, Bedouin and Ottoman people’s to resettle where they once did live. If that can be attained peacefully, then at that point maybe introduce select Abbas supporters to a limited extent where they used to live as well.

Tom Horn said:

Why the hell would they ever offer that? A better offer would be to allow limited self government to Druze, Bedouin and Ottoman people’s to resettle where they once did live. If that can be attained peacefully, then at that point maybe introduce select Abbas supporters to a limited extent where they used to live as well.

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because it seems just and might lead to the neighbors not wanting to attack them

that desire bieng what will desoty israel if it ever weakens which it probably will even if it takes centuries

blarg said:

because it seems just and might lead to the neighbors not wanting to attack them

that desire bieng what will desoty israel if it ever weakens which it probably will even if it takes centuries

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You can’t go back and hope all is now nice. You think Black September was bad, don’t think for a second it won’t be topped.

blarg said:

because it seems just and might lead to the neighbors not wanting to attack them

that desire bieng what will desoty israel if it ever weakens which it probably will even if it takes centuries

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Yes the key to not being attacked is to surrender and throw yourself to the mercy of those who are racist and openly genocidal.

Stunning analysis.


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Tom Horn said:

You can’t go back and hope all is now nice. You think Black September was bad, don’t think for a second it won’t be topped.

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im counting on things not being nice thats why israel is doomed unless it seeks justice for every one

CJ 2.0 said:

Yes the key to not being attacked is to surrender and throw yourself to the mercy of those who are racist and openly genocidal.

Stunning analysis.


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no that's stupid the key to being attacked less is to put up a fight don't occupy other peoples land and don't drive people away form their land and offer a right of return to one ethnic group

blarg said:

im counting on things not being nice thats why israel is doomed unless it seeks justice for every one

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It’ll never happen. The underground communities and infrastructure of the current telaviv fed is now rooted in place. Every calculated move they make is a test to see who may be their enemy. Their sovereignty is not open for debate. Compensastion may be, but only if inclusion of peaceful inhabitation is a pretext.